103. ORE Off Road, Drifting, Toyotas and Cayenne's w/ Kurt Thomas

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide podcast. I'm your host, Harris, aka Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations, and I am here with my co-host, Dan. I can't reveal too many secrets about today, but some cool stuff under the works, Mr. in the garage.

Yeah, yeah.

He's legally not allowed to disclose anything. But anyways, today we are here at ORE Off Road.

ORE Off Road, yep.

Okay, is it ORE or ORE?

ORE.

It's going to be ORE.

Whatever you want to be.

That's the three letters. And we are here with Kurt Thomas, who's a co-founder and vice president. Did I nail that?

Correct, yep.

We are here today to kind of just talk, honestly, about a lot of the cool stuff you've done over the years. You used to do a lot of drifting, and now you've done a total 180, and you're like, all right, I'm going to go up rocks and stuff.

Go real slow and up rocks, yeah.

Yeah, like we were just talking before we started this episode that you were entering corners at what, 140 wheel speed or something?

Yeah, no, I used to hit some corners in the drift car. You enter it over 100 miles an hour. Yeah.

All right. What's the top speed you'll do off-roading in one of these bad boys?

Six.

Six.

She's real slow. It goes half a mile an hour in first gear when it's all in low range and everything.

So before we get to obviously the off-roading portion, which I'm sure most people are clicking on to listen about that, give us a little bit of a background of how you kind of got into, I guess, building cool cars. Well, maybe it was the drifting at first, or was there something before that?

Yeah, I actually started at MAP when I was 19 years old.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So I was 19, started in the warehouse, Jay Corneay, Matthew Corneay. I don't know if you know Matt from DRSC. Yeah. So his cousin got me a job in shipping there, and I started hanging out with Max Odegaard and all the dudes in the shop. And we, basically, you'd sit out there all weekend, and everyone's just bouncing ideas. It was a super, like, creative space. Everyone was, like, uplifting, bringing everyone around. And we built just cool stuff. I actually started my first car that I built at MAP was a turbo Accord that I got for free, that I put a DSM turbo kit on, and it made 300 horsepower. And then that quickly spiraled into the E36, which we'll get into the E36 stuff, you know, but that car took everything I had. I mean, that cost a lot of my life.

The E36?

Yeah, that car was my blood, sweat and tears for five years. I ran a dedicated race program, and it brought me on some crazy adventures.

What's cheaper, divorce or cars? Actually, I guess you can't speak to that.

I guess I don't know.

The reason it comes to mind is I keep seeing this Tyrese thing in my Facebook. Facebook's so weird, man, but the guy from Fast and Furious, apparently he just went through something that lost like 50% of everything.

Oh, I'm sure.

So that's why that came to mind. But well, tell us a little bit about the drifting side because you were competing as well, right?

Yeah, I actually, so that car, it's gone through several variations. The first time I built it, it was just a 5.3 swap with, I actually had a Polaris Slingshot transmission, an AR5, that I got. I did some side work for another company who got those transmissions. But yeah, it was a very simple, nice car. And then yeah, I was telling you guys before that we started the podcast here that I actually rolled it on my first day. Landed on the roof, it dug in, it was springtime. We were doing, Austin Matty used to host this event called Don't Matta Drift Bash.

Okay.

And on the chicane at BIR, came through and just got caught sideways, dug into the soft ground, hit the pea gravel and landed on its roof. And ever since then, and it's always been the case with anything I build, is when I put a ding in something, it's game on. I no longer care about the aesthetic value of it, especially, like I rolled, it was a mint white E36 coupe, mint. I did a beautiful swap on it and I rolled it. And then I was like, I'm going to do competition. And that car since like, it got, it got a 418 like dry sump LS. So we put together as an old truck block. Wyzeko K1 sponsored me. We ended up doing a full 13.5 to one stroker in it. Made 550 wheel NA. Did a dog box, quick change. Yeah. Cut the whole back of the car off. I hit the wall with it. You know, that car has been totaled three times. Like total totaled, like bent frame. Like, and you just cut further back and tube it out. And yeah, it just took me on this crazy adventure. Drove around the country, chasing these big shootouts we were doing. Like me and my friend Matt, Matt Nelson, my friend Jess Burns. Like we would travel and go do these shootouts in Indiana. And went to Colorado. I did Grid Life, the Alpine Horizon Fest out there with like some pretty cool names. And yeah, just tore it up for a while.

So we're most familiar with like Grid Life, right? Like that's just kind of like what a lot of our friends do around here. So you said, did you only do that one time or did you do it several times?

I did one Grid Life. I got invited to Alpine Horizon Festival, which is the one at Pikes Peak International Raceway. And that was, it was insane.

So is that an invite only thing?

I applied, but then I had some of my good pals from the drift world, like put my name in there, like, hey, dude, let this dude drive. And we had a real good time out there. Like drove, doing tandems, you know, like hanging out with, or we did the grip drift sessions. I guess that was one of my favorite things about Gridlife. So they had all the road course cars out, and we would drift between them. So I'm like flying at like 80 miles an hour between two Honda Fits. It was pretty wild. Yeah, I got to hang out with like, you know, Rome, Rome Charpentier, the Formula Drift driver, like some good buddies of mine. And we got to just hang out, run doors all weekend, and they had all the live music out there that makes Gridlife really cool too, so.

Well, it's kind of like the ultimate like car festival kind of, right?

Yeah, I honestly like I drove the last Alpine Horizon 2, and that was it was a bummer to like know it was the last one, but it was one of the coolest things I've ever done. You wake up like I slept in the back of my truck, and you like look out the window of my topper, and it's just like mountains with the sun coming up over the mountains. You jump in your race car and just go wide open all day long is is fun.

That's got to be even cooler than what we did when we went to Pikes Peak for Venom Rally back in the day. Like you would start at the hotel. Why did you say so sad?

Like, well, it was my first track I'd ever been on. It's what like it like got the itch.

I forgot how many ways I've ruined Dan financially.

This is going to be an expensive hobby now.

Yeah, no, that's when it started getting really fun for me. And like the stars aligned at some point, like it just worked. What I was doing worked. I had a deal worked out kind of like with time off and stuff like that. And I was wrapping my employer at the time. It's Twin Cities Performance. Like Carl had my back and he wanted me to go pursue racing pretty hard. And I was bringing in some builds, some customers. We'd take customers out for rides, you know.

Drift builds, right?

No, we didn't build drift cars there.

Okay.

But that car, like you put a sticker on it and like people like they're curious.

So the drift car was bringing in like normal builds.

I don't like drift cars. Drift cars are oftentimes not the nicest vehicles that you'll see. Like they're 20 footers, you know. Like you even see pro cars out on the grid and you're like, oh, and on a live stream, the thing looks great and you get up next to it, you're like, woof.

Well, hold on. What about these off road cars though? Cause they're probably 20 footers too in some regards, right?

Yeah. Like I'm a, I love when people use their stuff.

Yeah, true.

To me, like I, it shows something about like your, your actual passion and depth in this sport. When you like kind of put aside worrying about what other people think about it and start just enjoying it. Like live, live to the full extent of what you're doing and you'll have more fun every time.

That's one, well, like you said, like when you rolled it, Yeah. It's like, oh, game on.

The first thing I said, I got out, I pulled myself under the door and those were frameless doors and I didn't think about it at the time I'm upside down in my car and I could have just opened the door and got out. I like clawed my way through the gravel, slid out and I was like, man, I scratched a candy and everyone was like, are you okay? I was like, I don't even care. I just had the best day I've ever had in my life. This is crazy. Had it running seven days later, like back in the old.

I got a free race car. Yeah. Cause like it made a transition from sort of street car-ish like, you know, you can drive.

I used to drive it everywhere. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you stop taking it to shows then after that or no?

No. Well, it was one of those things. I kind of lost my passion for the car, like show side of the world just because I was racing so much. Like I would sometimes I'd pull up to Battle Creek in that thing, you know, and like it's like it had G-Force, GSR four-speed dog box like that in fourth gear on the highway at 70 miles an hour, it was like 50, 200 RPM. So it was like the car was completely useless. It was built to do one job. That was it. And that was to party hard on the track. But like it was fun to go out. I get invited to go park at places like GRIP Royal Steering Wheels. They invited me down to the Stupa Cold. It's called in Memphis, which is a big car show down there. They do in the middle of winter. And we towed it all the way there.

In the middle of winter in Memphis.

It snowed.

Oh, it did really?

I towed it to Memphis and it snowed. And we were kicking it with Dan from the Hoonigans. And those dudes hanging out, party driving. I was like, I'm in the snow right now. And then we'd just park them up for the crowd to come look at them. It was pretty cool. But yeah, I didn't go out of my way to bring it to car shows ever.

You kind of start seeing that. It's kind of a repeatable thing on this show. You go back to all our episodes and everybody's like, yeah, once I started racing for real, I even stopped speeding on the highway.

Yeah. No, you start to just like dedicate yourself like, and I don't mean this in like a bad way, but like a lot of show car stuff to me is like, you're seeking approval for something. You want people to like be like, oh, that's sick. I want to do that, you know? But like to me, cars, if you're constantly worried about how something looks, you're worried about what someone else thinks, you're not doing it to the full extent. So when people start racing, they start being like, this is the coolest thing ever. If nobody ever saw this thing in the daylight again, except me, you're going to be like, I love this.

Well, it's also black and white, right? Like shows are kind of, again, you're leaving your fate up to someone else. When you win at racing, whatever kind it is, it's pretty black and white. You're the winner.

Yeah.

But you go to a car show and you'll have somebody just having a mental breakdown, like what? His wheels were...

Yeah.

So that makes sense, actually.

I think from perspective, like, or with perspective, like you realize, like, dude, like, if you stop caring what anybody else says about you, start living, you'll love it. Like, just find your passion in it authentic and, like, genuinely, you know?

Yeah. All right.

Do you like mushrooms?

No.

Because this is turning to really, like, some life advice. I love it.

Yes.

I mean, who doesn't?

Oh, man. No, I don't know. Like, I did go on, like, a bit of just a, like, soul searching. Like, drifting, like, changed me as a person. Taught me to, like, taught me to get out of my comfort zone, go introduce myself to people, shake hands, you know? Like, ask these big time dudes, like, hey, can we drive? Can we run doors, you know? And then it just turned into, like, I got the opportunity from that to invite and share the opportunity with other people. So it was like, I would go to Proving Grounds, and you'd have, like, lines of people that want to bust out Snapchat and get in your seat. And then I would be like, I'm looking for, like, the kid that's like, yo, I'm standing in the background, like, that's pretty cool, would never ask me. And I'll be like, yo, get in the car. And you get to change somebody's life. You get to give them an experience that they'd never in their life get, and you never know, like, if somebody needs that, or if, like, that gives them a push. I know a few people that have gotten into drifting just by, like, sharing that. So it's pretty fun. It was a really cool, like, it was a moving time in my life. That's what made it hard to detach, but we'll get back to it soon enough.

Yeah. That's kind of how, so I got into car just because it was, well, first of all, I love cars anyway, but I was like, I want to have a cool car, right? And then once you start using it like it's intended, then, like you said, you just don't give a s*** anymore.

Yeah.

And actually, I'm not sure which is more work, having a race car or having a show car, because it's like keeping it clean is just a huge pain in the a**.

Oh yeah.

Constant work.

It's a lot of work. And with the drift car, I go through three front bumpers like on a light season, like seven of it.

Yeah. Show cars are a pain in the a**. Yeah.

And I loved detailing up the BMW once in a while. You go parking up, it's like, dude, I had like at one point, I had 22 wheels for that car. It's like you spend an entire Saturday cleaning wheels.

Oh, yeah, I bet.

Oh man. But yeah, I'd go through three rear bumpers. Like I got brand new M3 bumpers. You know, I go out and I'd wrap it, put it on the car. And then it's like first run out, just drag it down the wall. Somebody runs it over. It's like, I don't care anymore. I leave it off for the rest of the season.

Well, we would see that like when we went to the replacement for Proving Grounds, the North Star Speed Summit.

Yeah.

And like, again, Dan and I haven't been around the drifting scene too much. So it's like when you see somebody dragging a bumper, you're like, oh, damn, that's different.

Yeah. Oh, man. Like Grid Life, a good example, like I ran the wall. I had my mom in the car. She flew down to ride in my car at Grid Life, which was to me, that was the coolest thing ever. She got out, ripped it off the zip ties, threw it over her shoulder, and marched it back to the pits. I was like, yeah, mom, that's sick. You know? Like, it was pretty cool.

That's gotta be one of those like core memories.

Oh yeah. I got a picture of her just like marching off into the distance with this bumper over her shoulder. And it's like, I don't know, that's the thing, those. I'd slam it back on and all the vinyls broken, the trims missing and it's BMWs too. Like E36s are just trim mulchers. I went through a set of trim on that thing three, four times a year. It's like, man, you start stop caring as much.

Yeah.

Well, you drift guys are kind of a cult too. Like you're just like, come join us. Like all the time, like.

Because any time, like ask anybody if they're having a bad time drifting.

That's fair.

I've like, I've never seen anyone be like, God, drifting sucks. I don't want to do this. I don't know. There's something about it.

You'll get people that are like, oh, it's hard. Like, especially when they're trying to get started with a car that just. It's not that I can't do it. It's just that it seems like it can't to somebody that's a novice.

Oh, yeah. Well, people like pushing up hill like. And I like, again, don't mean anything bad by this, but like people want to be different so bad. And sometimes it's like you're going to fight an uphill battle and you're going to learn to hate something if you don't just do it an easier way. Start simple. I want to talk, but start start simple and like, you know, smarter, not harder. Right. Yeah. People want to do all this crazy. I want to drift a frickin whatever like some weird car. You know, I want a Volvo 240 with an LS in it. It's like, just go get a Z and crash the thing into some walls and have fun. And then once you understand geometry and alignments and driving, then go fight it a little bit.

Yeah.

Did you find yourself learning a lot about that then? In the process of building the Beamer?

No, I actually I had kind of an unconventional route with drifting. I picked it up really fast. My second day drifting, we got like second place team tandem competition. And like, that was pretty cool to me. Like, I don't know what it was. I have a long history of driving and doing, you know, I rode motorcycles like at the national level, like dirt bikes. I did trials my whole life and like I can pick lines. I know how to use all my hand and feet together. And I think that helped me a lot with that stuff. So I definitely wouldn't say it was a traditional kind of starting from the bottom moving up. But yeah, I think that it's important to do the simple side of it when you start out. I'm yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of a hypocrite that way. I'll tell people like start easy.

What is a traditional route then?

Traditional to me is like start cheap, start easy, start low power. I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't like the whole like, you need to drift a single KMKA 240 with no angle. Cause that just isn't fun. It's not as fun. But like go out and get a decent 350Z or go buy a car that works, a C6, whatever. C6's you can get for 10 grand these days. You can't buy a better car out of the box. I know Max said an S550. And like that's it. We got one up there, you know? Like I love S550s. I've thought about one of those too, but that's the thing is you go get a Volvo for three grand. You want to put an LS in it. You put a standalone in it. You go get a tune. You buy all this stuff for it. You build a custom angle kit for it. You're going to be $25,000 and do an old Volvo. And then you're going to have to fight it and learn it when you could buy one of those, throw an angle kit and tires on it and party for a weekend.

Is the one behind us an EcoBoost or a VA?

That is an EcoBoost.

EcoBoost, okay.

I don't think you're going to find, it's mostly EcoBoost runs.

Yeah, we do the EcoBoost build stuff here. But yeah, I want to get, I want a dark horse. That's what I really want for a drift chassis. I just couldn't justify wadding one of those up as easy. 60 grand.

These make enough power right out of the box to start drifting, right? The EcoBoost ones?

Yeah, and a lot of people are doing the EcoBoost swaps. They're cheap. Like Chelsea Danofa has a notch back. And he goes out, he went, it's like 430 wheel, and he runs a ZF, E36 ZF transmission behind it. And the car, like, he goes out, wins big payout shootouts. Like, he's winning $20,000 shootouts in a, just a caged notch with an EcoBoost in it. It's like, I don't know, man. It's crazy. The whole world, the world's getting crazy in the drift side of things.

Yeah.

What else are you seeing? That's kind of crazy. How much do you pay attention to the drifting thing nowadays?

I do pay a good bit of attention to it. Honestly, like, I get FOMO.

Yeah.

I want to be driving real bad. Like, all my buddies are doing like the drift appalachia. They're drifting. They're going out to the mountains and drifting like toga mountain roads. It's like that. Like, that's insane. Towns are shutting down roads for people to go slide their cars around on.

It's like crazy. The complete opposite of what you would expect.

Right. And I remember when I started driving, you know, you get three, four events in the Midwest a year that you can drift every weekend within a four hour radius if you want to. Like, it's pretty cool. The trajectory of the drifting world is really good. I like it a lot. Like, I actually went up to North Dakota. I'm really cool with those guys. I love them up there, up at SRD, Sandback Race Development. They own the Interstate Raceway Track. And they just promote drifting in such a good way. Like, they pump talent out. That's it. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's a crazy place.

So, when you say promoting it, like, what do you mean? Like, promoting, like, events or?

Yeah, well, they just promote the growth of drivers. They have these, like, they call them, like, DTP, like, Drifting the Plains. And it's a four round series. And you can, like, you can enter. You can learn about how to do, you know, like, competition. Like, a lead chase, lead chase. Like, you do your battles. You get judged. They have, like, you work your way through the brackets and all that kind of stuff. And they're building, like, they have drivers. Cody Buchanan, one of my good buddies, like, he's in Formula Drift ProSpec. Like, they have all these drivers coming out and getting licenses and going all the way to the big times. Just because you have places like that that breed creativity and, like, breed talent.

What's the other one besides Formula Drift that I've been hearing about that's also pretty good? Like, some other series or something? I saw something on Facebook where it's like, oh, these guys have even, like, better people. I can't remember what it was, like, where the events were something.

I guess, I don't know, there's a lot of huge series going around right now. They have, like, the Bash Bros dudes, like, running the local events right now. And then there's, like, DMEC.

So I think that's the one I heard about.

DMEC is the International Circuit. So Josiah Follais is, he drives a C6. He was my sponsor, FDF Race Shop, last season. And he's out there, yeah, driving with big names, like James Dean, Connor Shanahan, like, driving with these huge, best in the world drivers. And, like, that's pretty crazy. Nasser, he's a dude from Dubai. He rented my car, and I towed it out to Jersey and Crude for him last year.

BMW?

Yeah. He, like, from Dubai, like, Josiah, synced us up. He's like, dude, this dude's got a car. Drive this thing. And he flew in from Dubai and rented it and stuff. Like, pretty wild.

Is there, like, a high-performance driving school or a place that somebody can go to kind of learn this s***? Like, they give you a car, and is that that place out in North Dakota? Will they do that, too?

North Dakota does, it's called Drift 101s.

Okay.

And they get an instructor, like, you'll get Cody. Like, he's a Formula Drift pro. Dude is, he is insane. He's a menace behind the wheel. But he'll get in with you, and he will teach you how to drive a car. Like, and he will tell you what you're doing wrong, and they will curate drivers in a weekend up there. It's absolutely crazy.

Well, especially when you have somebody that knows how to teach as well. Cause like, there's a lot of doers, or people that are able to do it, but they can't translate that into someone else.

I'm a terrible teacher.

Yeah?

I'm very impatient. And like, yeah, you go up there and like, the dude I sold my car to, my U36, he wanted me to train him how to drive it. And I went up there and like, Cody helped me out. Cause I was sitting there like, pulling my hair, you know. You get frustrated. Like you want people to just get it. And sometimes it doesn't happen as fast. And like, yeah, that ND, if anybody ever wants to check out a wonderful environment for drifting, like whether you're a spectator, whether you're a driver, anything, like ND Drift, those dudes are the best people in this area.

And how far of a drive would you say that is? Like four hours?

Fargo is about three and a half, yeah. They're just outside of Fargo. They're actually still in Minnesota, but.

Oh yeah, yeah, fair enough.

I mean, just off the side of a cornfield, and they just got this crazy cool-

Morehead probably?

Yep, just to this side of Morehead.

Okay.

But yeah, like they have a, it's a brushed concrete track with no transitions. And like concrete, super light on tires. I'd go through half the tire volume, even in my car up there, that other people will go through. Like it's a great place to learn.

What about US Air?

I like US Air. I drove there a couple of times. Okay. I guess I don't- It's more focused on like the showy aspect, in my opinion. I love it. Like I had a blast there. A lot of my really good friends and stuff. And I've driven there probably three, four times. I debuted my car there last year when it was orange. And we had a great time. But yeah, I guess to me, ND, you're gonna get more, I feel like you get more in touch with drifting initially. It's a little bit nicer crowd. And I don't say that. Like that's, it's hard to talk about it, not something kind of like you're sighted or anything, but like ND is just like, everyone's bringing everybody up. Like the US Air, I didn't get that experience. I got yelled at the first time I was there because I didn't know where to go. It's like, I don't know where I'm going, dude. I'm sorry. And yeah.

Well, the drifters kind of get a little bit of a name for themselves of being kind of a wild bunch, right? I mean, is that? Yeah.

Yeah. Everybody's different, you know?

Yeah.

It's kind of hard to bundle everybody all in one, too, though.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. That's not how we do it. You can't blanket people. And that's the thing is like, there's good eggs and there's bad eggs. And as with anything, you know, there's some people who like gatekeep specs and stuff. And then there's the people who are like, hey, yeah, I would like one of my favorite things to do driving. And even out there, like I'd go up behind somebody and just like a like kind of a base basic car. And I pull up behind him in this dog box, frickin menace of a BMW with a big Holley high ramp sticking out the hood. And I like hold up my fingers like, too, like, do you want to battle? And they'd get out this like I did it with this dude in this E36 and he was like mind blown. He's like, dude, no one's ever done that. I was like just on his door the whole time. He's like, that's the coolest thing ever. I was like, you want to chase me? Like, and that's all it is. You just keep the good vibes going. If you keep the good vibes, things will be fun, I don't know.

What made you decide to hang it up?

I was spending a lot of money on drifting. So it got to the point for me where I made a promise to myself in the beginning that if it got too cumbersome and it became something that I felt like a job more so than a passion and a hobby, that I would stop before I hated it. And I don't say this to sound like braggy or anything, but I would pull that car out of the garage, like the last, it was Carmageddon, was it last year? The first PG thing. I went through 32 tires. Comp spec, like $190 per tire, tires. So $5760 in tires. And then went through 35 gallons of E85. And that was just to party drive and give that car a send off. And like, I mean, that you're talking towing, you're talking, I had a trailer truck, all this stuff you have to have to do this. It's, you know, four to $7,000 a weekend. And it's not sustainable as a privateer. Like, I made it work for a while. I honestly don't even know how I made it work. Like, the stars aligned.

Put it on Amex.

Yeah, no, didn't put it on the Amex. I had some sponsors and stuff for a while. Like, a little bit of money was coming in. I had some people who believed in me and it helped. But yeah, I had to hang it up before I started to hate it. Because what people don't see is the weekends you're not driving and out here traveling going crazy. I'm mounting 32 tires. I'm cleaning wheels. I'm doing brakes. I'm fluids. You know, it's 10 quarts of oil. It's a dry sump oiled 418 LS. So 10 quarts of race oil. And then two quarts of Motul Trans fluid. And all this stuff is $300 in oils every weekend. And like, do I need to do it every weekend? No, but like you're protecting your investment, you know? Yeah, it just became overwhelming. I'd have to tow it to the shop, do all the fluids and you spend three days getting ready to go beat on it for three days. And yeah, it just gets overbearing.

But if you wanted to continue doing it at that level, like what would have kept you doing it? Is there anything?

Money.

Money?

Yeah.

OK.

Like, in all honesty, like the money thing, that's that's the tough part with it. Like I say, it's like it it sounds crazy. But when you really break it down, like I would order a stack of tires for an event, and it's $5,000, it's like, what am I doing? I sold everything else that I had for hobbies. Like I sold bicycles. I sold motorcycles. I sold everything I had just to fun drifting. And it's like, OK, I did cool stuff for a weekend, but like now what?

Well, you must have to have a pretty serious trailer, too, to bring 32 tires with you.

I used to. Yeah, I used to have it enclosed. Like, I simplified everything. Towards the end, I got an aluminum open deck and I'd strap tires to that, fill the car up with tires, fill the bed up with tires. And I found ways to do it cheaper, but it's one of those things like you recover for part of the season. Like part of the off season is just recovering financially.

Yeah.

Oh, man. I wouldn't trade it for the world, though. That was the coolest, coolest time of my life. We did a lot of fun stuff. Met a lot of really awesome, influential people.

So so you think at some point in the near future, like obviously you're pursuing this off roading thing, which we will get into. Do you ever foresee yourself kind of just jumping back into it? Maybe even on a cheaper level?

Yeah, I'm actually I'm hunting for a Grand Sport. OK, so it's like a C6. OK, C6 Grand Sport is honestly, in my opinion, it's the best bet that Chevy made. Seven liters have seven liter problems. Their aluminum chassis. Yeah, so Grand Sport is a steel chassis, wide body LS3 dry sump with and only the coupe manual cars would dry sump. So they got the whole like they're just impenetrable oiling system. Perfect setup. They had the the big brakes, the six brakes. But most importantly, it's a steel chassis. So if I want back in my mind, like I'm like, I'm going to keep it simple, you know, but way back there, it's like, OK, if I want to slam a cage in this thing and go full bogey again, I have the potential to do it. But you can get 100,000 mile grand sport for it.

I remember somebody telling me about that too, that you want to avoid the Z06s because of the aluminum. Or is it, yeah, the Z06 has the aluminum chassis, right?

Aluminum chassis and the seven liters drop out. I had a C6Z I bought from a customer actually at my last job, and I love that car. Their one, vets are phenomenal. I don't know if you've ever driven a decent, high power of C6. They are wonderful cars to drive. I got to drive ZR1s and stuff all the time. That would be end goal. Like drifting a ZR1 would be such a wild thing.

Oh, first of all, you'd have to be made of money. But also made of money.

They sound so good.

Yeah, our buddies sound his for the short term. I hate you. I just want you to know if you're listening. Hell yeah. Just making sure it's clear. But would that even be a good drift chassis?

I mean, yeah. Like they're just robust cars.

OK.

ZR1s have like insane drivelines. Like stock drivelines are holding over a thousand horsepower.

What makes a drift car a good drift car? Like whether it's cheap or, you know, again, a hundred thousand dollars, like a ZR1.

Power, aftermarket support and parts availability.

OK.

So you got C6s are a massively covered chassis now. Everybody, like you can put FDF. Go to FDF, buy a full kit, dual caliber, like an entire bolt in angle kit, bolt on, dual caliber kit. You can buy seat brackets, rails, steering wheel, everything. You can literally bolt together a drift car off the shelf, and all these parts are always in stock. You go to the parts store, you know, you burned up, like if you got a JZ, you know, I burned up a water pump. What are you going to do? You know, like you're at the track where you're going to get that, like a C6, you can go to a Napa and get plug wires and coils and anything you need, you'll be able to get at the parts store. That to me is the most important thing, is like availability and ease of working on stuff. Like I had three alternators, my drift car ran a C6 accessory drive. Yeah, you can do these crazy aftermarket accessory drives, but if you keep it OEM, then it's OEM.

That's true. Like when Shawn's Hellcat Durango is having issues, I think it was a thermostat or whatever down at Texas 2K, it's like, you're just able to go to whatever.

Yeah.

And it was the same one that was in one of the five sevens or whatever. Like technically Bryce told us that that wasn't readily available information, but it's like, oh, you can just throw in something OEM. And then it's like, it saved our trip kind of.

Yeah, exactly. Like I've been out, I was out at Gridlife and I needed an alternator. Called the O'Reilly's three miles away. Hey, do you have a 2006 Equinox alternator? I know all the cross references too. So like, you can put a C6 alternator, or an Equinox alternator is the same as a C6 casting. Same depth, belt spacing, all that stuff. But they have like a different pin, so you'd have to flip a pin in your harness. But it's like, cool, I can go get this alternator for 75 bucks, and my weekend's not ruined because I'm 16 hours from home with no spare alternator, you know? Or you can go to the dealership and buy a C6 alternator. It's like, it's pretty handy.

Is the dry sump thing something that's a necessity, or are you really sloshing that much oil that that's a...

I burned up a 5.3 once.

Did you really?

So I had a Forge 5.3. Wiseco hooked me up on the internals for it, but I spun a rod bearing, and I had an AccuSump on it, like an oil accumulator, and it didn't save it. The C6 dry sump is an OEM dry sump that just happened to fit in my chassis. I used a factory pan, factory pump, front cover, all that stuff. So they're kind of like a dry wet sump system, and then I used just a nice Billet Peterson tank. I don't know if you guys put pictures and stuff in. I'll show you some pictures like how it looks, but I used an OE configuration, because if you do an ARE dry sump, it's going to be $5,000, $6,000 in Billet fancy, crazy stuff. So I did a budget set up, but yeah.

Well, that's the thing is like you said, if you have a budget set up, it's a lot easier to do it in every way. Because then when you start messing with like, the second you start throwing anything Billet in there, it's like, that's also a weekend ruiner when those things go wrong.

Right, and like I say, to me it's all about ease of replaceability.

Well, for drifting it makes the most sense, right?

Yeah, like when people do custom length plug wires, right? I wanted to relocate my spark plug, or my coils under the frame, you know, to keep the engine bay clean. It's like, well, now you just have to build a custom plug wire if you ever burn one up. Keep a stock coil in a stock, like OEM coils of 200,000 miles will outlive any part of the store coil. But like, that's how I built a car. I built a car where I ran an off-the-shelf factory-length serpentine belt. I had three spare belts. I had spare alternators. You have all these spare parts. You have a balancer, power steering pumps, all factory GM just stuff. You can get a part store.

So slide this over like just a little bit like this way. Yeah, there we go. You're good. But so then, did you swap everything in yourself then? Yeah, that was like a weekend project or what? No, I'm just saying every time anybody starts doing GM swaps of any sort or LS swaps, they're just like, oh yeah, man, I did it over a lunch break. Like that's every story ever.

That's actually funny to say that because when I was working at MAP, we could rent lifts or we could book lifts to use. And I had that car, I got yelled at a few times because I worked on it day and night at my lunch breaks, my 15 minute breaks. I worked on it from the time I got off work to 11 o'clock every single night for six months straight. I did a really nice swab. It was like ceramic coated exhaust. Like it was, the car was beautiful. And yeah, I did build it on lunch breaks, but I put a lot of time into it. We machined a block. We did, you know, ported heads. We did all this crazy stuff like Eric, the engine builder from MAP. Shout out to Eric. He's such a good dude. That dude built all my race engines and he like, he put it all into it. So we did like, kind of top of the line. I didn't slam a stinky old truck motor in it. You know, like LS swaps often misconstrued as like, this greasy old piece of junk. I don't like greasy junk, but I like to keep it factory, OEM plus kind of.

And what did you have? You said you had a 5.3 in there, right?

Well, to start.

To start?

It was an aluminum block 5.3.

Okay.

I made 380. The car weighed 2,400 pounds.

Jesus.

Which like, it was snotty. The thing parted really good, but. Yeah, the 550 wheel at 2,600 pounds was even wilder.

Which motor was that?

That 550 was the 418.

Okay, gotcha.

So that was a burned Escalade engine. It came out of a truck that burned to the ground. Got so hot it melted the oil pan. The block looked like it was found in like a coral reef. Like it was trashed. And we machined it and stabbed it out. Like we did a 10 overbore on it and put a stroker crank in it. And still rips today, so.

You a scuba diver? Where did coral reef reference come from? I just came out of nowhere.

I mean, just imagine like an old car that's been sitting in the ocean. You know how like corroded they get? That's what that block looked like.

I've seen burned cars. Things get rough. It takes all the coating off everything. Everything rusts instantly. Yeah, it's nasty.

We had to like grind the intake manifold off to find the bolts to get the intake off. It was like melted, melted.

Well, how about that demon from PRI, the Scrap Life Garage Demon?

Oh yeah.

Dude, that...

Dude, PRI is crazy.

Are you, have you been there a few times?

Yeah, I went down last year. Have you guys been down there?

We went last year for the first time.

Dude, it was phenomenal.

Yeah.

Like that was like, that's a gearhead's just dream.

And it's an eight hour drive.

Yeah, no, it's real short. I ran into Dennis Anderson, like the Gravedigger. Oh, no way. Like I literally bumped into him, and I was like, dude, I haven't seen you since I was, I don't know, about eight years old at the Metrodome. He's like, man, I missed the Metrodome. Like, it's super cool.

Yeah, I ran into Bruno Manziel down there from, like, all the shows on the Hot Rod Network. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's big into four wheeling and s***, I think.

Yeah, growing up, that's all like Spike TV every Saturday morning. Same for you.

Yeah.

Oh, I love those shows back in the day.

Dude, it was so funny, cause like we're like packing up to go home, and then Dan like does one of these, and he's like, Bruno!

Like he was like, oh, there he is. I met Mad Mike at SEMA.

Okay.

Oh, really? From Pimp My Ride, like Galpin Autosports. I was like, man, you gotta pimp my ride. He was like, shut up.

That was such a horrible show. If you go back and watch it now, it's like garbage. You're like, oh my God.

Do you hear about all the crazy stories that like, they like did some awful things to people there. Oh, it's funny.

Nothing to make the car more reliable, just 100% all just like hot glue s*** on.

Just like, we got you 39 PlayStation 2. It's like, great. What am I going to do with that?

No, PRI is awesome. I'm excited to go this year. I'm excited for SEMA, but dude, PRI is just kind of like where we fit in. And now that we're 50 episodes further along in this podcast, we have an even bigger understanding of everything. Yeah. So it's like, now we're like-

It teaches you a keen eye, I feel like.

Dude, like, you have to understand, like even for some episodes, I always go back to episode 67 where Jason Anderson, he ports heads. That's literally all he does, head work. He is awesome at doing head work.

Which shop?

J Anderson Heads. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. They're like our go-to guy in the area here to port heads and stuff.

Oh, that's awesome.

I think he has like a six-month waiting list. Like, it's like, but like, he's done some fast cars. He does a lot of like Mini Cooper stuff, which is kind of interesting for like road course stuff. But like, but anyways, like that whole episode, like I was able to, the conversation outside looking in, you would never have guessed. But like, as we're doing the episode, I'm like, I have no idea what the f*** you're talking about.

Yeah.

But now it's like, I, you know, if we go to like PRI, like we could have a way more, like it's just such a cool thing. Like, I feel like the more you know, or the more things you experience in life, that type of s***, like it just looks, it's just awesome.

Yeah.

It breeds creativity.

Dude, when you say that.

The more you get out, the more you're going to like, yeah, you just start absorbing cool things and like.

Well, every time we have a guest on, I end up like, I'm going to be shopping for trucks after this. I know it. I just, it's like.

What you guys are doing is so cool. Like, I think it's cool. Like, it's cool to me that you guys are local and doing this thing too. And it's like, I was pretty honored when you reached out. You're like, a couple of people referred me. Like, I have done a couple of things in my day. It's kind of fun to be able to talk about it a little bit, you know.

Well, it was so funny. His text was literally like, anything I should prepare for, talk about. I'm like, have you done cool s***? He's like, yeah. I'm like there you go.

That's it, yeah. I've done some things.

Well, it's just some sort of energy that people like put down, right? And one of the things that I really dislike is when people want to come on here and like promote stuff. It's like, come on, dude, we know.

Yeah.

You're knocking on my door. But anyways, that aside, now speaking of the marketplace thing, though, like this dude was literally looking at Porsche Cayenne's while you stepped outside.

Yeah.

They're cool, man.

Dude, they're cheap.

They're cheap.

Yeah.

They're super cool. You do like that Euro wise lift, right? Like we charge kind of want to say it's around 1600 installed for a three inch lift in one of those. And then you put 33s and wheels on it, cut the bumpers a little bit and you're like you're jamming. Like those things are very capable. They're they're cool cars. They drive so nice.

I was reading the so I looked at a 2014 four point eight twin turbo 500 horse seventy seven hundred pound towing capacity.

Yeah, they're sweet.

I was like what? Yeah, that's f****** crazy.

Yeah. Adam Adam tows with his old time.

Really? Yeah.

We told we told Fiesta's and RS's around with it. It's like it's just a comfy tow rig.

Yeah. Does he still have that green one? The green Porsche? I think it was a no.

You know, McCann McCann. Yeah, he sold that one.

That was a cool rig. So OK, so what's a nice way of asking this? What the f***? Like, what is it about the Porsches? Like, the Cayennes, right? Like, I started learning about this a few years ago, like starting to see them. Like, oh, that guy's an odd duck. Like, what makes them such a special platform? Because we're seeing more and more of them that are getting turned into, like, these off-roading machines. I don't know how to describe it.

The industry on that side of things is absolutely blowing up. I honestly have no idea. Like, I couldn't tell you why. I didn't actually know, like, they were cool and capable until I started hanging out with Adam. Like, me and him actually were co-workers at Map years and years ago.

Yeah, he was like, no, this whole Map thing, like, as we have all these people on, like, I wish I could go back in time and just, I would go beg for a job there. You guys are all so, like, tight-knit. You're all spread out all over the metro here, and every single one of you is, it's like a cult. You guys are all, like, best friends.

Dude, I, like, I cherish the memories and, like, the fondness of the relationships I have with people from Map. Like, Max, me, dude, me and Max were talking earlier. Like, me and Max talk all the time. Kyle Nelson is my best friend. He's the co-founder of MAPerformance. That's my best friend. Like, me and him, like, when I started Map, I was into off-roading. And he was building this big, stupid turbo Silverado with a solid axle, like, crazy. It made 580 horsepower on 44s. Like, the thing was ridiculous. But, like, everyone else is building cars there. And I'm like, oh, cool, there's rock crawler people here. And now, like, me and him are boys. I was in his wedding, like, we're best friends. I mean, the amount of friends I have from that, everywhere I've gotten in life has stemmed from that. It was pretty sad, like, watching how things kind of ended up. But, like, everyone left and, like, pursued better for themselves. And I think that's the coolest thing ever. Like, all of my friends from there have taken these cool, awesome jobs or taken opportunities. Like, Max is, like, he's a patient. He's killing it, dude. He is, I mean, a god-tier fabricator. He is phenomenal. And it's like, like, at MAP, he was like, he's just one of the guys, you know? And now it's like, dude, this dude's out here. It's cool how everyone's sprinkled into the community and, like, now it's boosting up even more.

So you and Adam kind of go back then. What was he doing back there back then?

He was a business manager at MAP years ago. I actually lived with Adam for probably nine, nine, 10 years ago now. God, that was a long time ago. But yeah, he went off, I think he went back to turn 14 or Motivicity. Motivicity got bought by turn 14 a couple of years ago. That's probably seven, eight years now. But yeah, he came back and then, yeah, he reached out to me recently and we kind of reconnected. We went off road in last fall, took this out. He has this little Nissan, I shouldn't say little, his big Nissan fire truck thing that's all built and stuff for off roading. And yeah, we just were like, yo, we should start an off road shop. We love this stuff. And that's, yeah, that's where we're at now.

Yeah, and you were kind of telling us a little bit about like these like Cayenne's like they have, you recently found out there's like a manual one and all this other stuff.

Yeah.

Like, so if somebody were to build one of these, I'm totally going to blow up the whole market right now. We tripled our X8 numbers by the way. But like what makes them such a good platform to work on? Is anything come to mind?

They're just like, they're robust. I would have never thought like me and Porsche in reliability, right?

Right.

There's no way these things are stop like, they are robust trucks. They're affordable. They don't actually have like locking. Some of them have locking diffs and like locking center diffs and stuff, but they all have gear reduction. So for a four-wheel drive vehicle, you got a comfy interior. You just, all we do is you just do spacer lifts. You put these spaces, subframe an inch. You put two-inch strut spacers in them. They're like, and then they clear a 33 and they just go places. They use the ABS to actually control traction. So to lock up the spinning wheel, to put traction to the other tire and get you up things. And they just work. I wasn't a firm believer. I am a firm believer in Cayenne's now. And they're just cool trucks. Like they're comfortable. They present well. I'll just show you guys a picture after I got, like the red one we just wrapped up. It's a red 06 Titanium Edition. Like nice, like it's got quad tip exhaust. Like it's a clean truck. And that thing literally just climbed over this like big pile of dirt out here. And it's like, that's not even beginning to scratch the surface of what they can do.

So is there any like trim or anything that's just kind of like the one or they're all kind of pretty good?

Anything 09 plus if you're getting a V8.

Okay.

Because like the 08s, 08s in previous all had this cylinder scoring issue. That's the main fault of those. Which we are going to develop an LS swap kit for these things too. Like we want to develop a bolt-in like OE style LS swap for these Cayenne's because it's a viable option.

Are you supposed to disclose that? Is that good?

No, it'll be totally fine. Like I think it'd be cool. Like we're talking about doing it with this turbo out here because it's broken already. Like they're just, they're stout vehicles, they're good chassis. And if you can get everything to work right, they have like, I don't know, 11 wires going into the ECU. Like that's all you got to figure out. Like it's not that bad.

Can we Coyote swap into LS swap? But I'd appreciate that.

There's not enough space in there for all that. We can do LT, go Gen 5.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're talking about EcoBoost swapping them, like whatever.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's the real downfall of those cars was just the 08, 03 to 08 trucks. We just failed at the cylinder wall. Really bad.

Is that the V8s only or?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Turbo or non-turbo?

I saw one had a 3.

The BR6 ones are just like robust, but...

One I saw in there had a diesel in it. Do you guys mess with those at all?

We do do the diesels, yeah. That's the newer chassis. Those are really cool.

So there's not like a limit on what years you should stop at then? They're just all phenomenal after 09?

Yeah. 09 to 10. So that's still a first gen Cayenne. That's called a 957. 955 is the 02 to 06. 957 I think will look a little better. It's a more modern front end and stuff. But yeah, and then 958 goes 2011 to 18. Those are the only platforms that we build. But they're the same as like the Tour Rig, right? Yeah. So like the Tour Rig with the diesel, like they towed like 40,000 pound plane with it or whatever. Like they make 560 foot-pounds of torque or something outrageous. And so Adams had those, but they're all the same chassis. They use the same parts and everything. Volkswagen Audi obviously, so.

Yeah. Is there another... So I asked the same thing to Max, right? What is the best, I wanna go wheeling, what's out the box, like I can buy it, I don't have to pay a lot, and I'm ready to just hit the fricking off road. Is there something out there that ticks that box?

Yes. There's a lot of things. Jeeps are great, like a Rubicon's gonna have the better axles and stuff, and a four to one transfer case. I don't like driving jeeps.

Yeah.

I don't know if you ever driven a jeep Wrangler, you had a Gladiator.

I had a Gladiator, my mom's got a Wrangler.

They're real loose, like they're never just settled, you know what I mean? Just in my opinion, from what I've driven, I've had a few jeeps myself, and I like jeeps, the aftermarket's great, we build jeeps here. We have a jeep coming in next week, like we do jeeps, Toyota Tacoma, 4Runner, that's a classic great truck.

That's a bucket list one to have for me, for sure.

Yeah, and I want to build a one-ton crew cab Tacoma next. After this, I'm building a four-door, because I love bringing people with. I love sharing the experience, so to me, I want to build something with four seats. But out of the box.

He's the guy in the circle who's like, take a hit, man.

Yeah, no, like, I mean, any of those, honestly. Or Cayenne, now like, no one I know about Cayenne. They're wonderful trucks. This red one we just built, I mean, I think we're gonna sell this truck for 11. Like 10 and a half to 11,000. And it's a built, set up, roof rack, lifted, 33s, wheels. And that thing will go anywhere. You can take it out to Colorado and do pretty wild stuff with that. So, I don't know. Cayenne's I think are viable. I think they're a great option.

And the interiors are nice, like a luxury vehicle on the inside too, right?

I'll show you the ones we got. We have those two out here. I could take you guys for a rip after the show quick, but yeah, they're nice. Adam's personal one has the peanut butter interior. They make these Bolton head units. We sell a package here. We work at this company, and it's a Bolton CarPlay head unit. It modernizes the truck a bunch. There's some cool stuff with those.

Do you guys want to pause the show and just go do it right now?

Yeah, sure. I'll be down at the stand for a minute.

And get the footage of it or what?

Yeah, I got an iPhone, not an Android. We can make it happen. Yeah, let's do it.

All right.

Before we get too far into the show, I wanted to take a moment to talk about Razorhood. If your daily driver is having issues, aka your beater you got off Craigslist, Razorhood's telemechanics and AI tools can help you diagnose and solve the issues you may be dealing with for a fraction of the cost. All you have to do is add your car to the Razorhood garage to get started. You can provide the AI tool, also known as GUS, with the specifics of the issues you're having, and it will help you narrow down what the culprit is. It's a great way to bounce ideas off of to figure out what actually might be the problem. You can then select from a variety of solutions to explore the cost and difficulty of doing the repair yourself versus taking it to a shop. If your car doesn't have detailed solutions yet, that's totally fine. Just go ahead and add your car to the garage for free, and that will let the Razorhood team know what to focus on as they continue to develop and grow. If you want to try out GUS or chat with a telemechanic, go to razorhood.com and add your car to the garage to get started. Use code MINNOXIDEFREE for a one month free subscription or MINNOXIDE20 to save 20% on a 30 minute call with a telemechanic. Let's get back to the show. A lot of you guys know Ratified Motorsport for their RS3, TTRS, 1000 horsepower hairdresser car builds, but they are so much more than that. From basic maintenance on an R35 GTR to, you know, cute little Volkswagen GTIs like mine, they're able to do a little bit of everything. Whether it's your basic maintenance or an intake in a tune, or even a full-blown build, be sure to go to ratifiedmotorsport.com to get yourself booked today. And I hope to see you guys at the shop.

Yep. Time in.

Time in.

Time in.

And we're back. That was fun. Porsche was cool. Obviously, without 33s, you can only do so much. But would you do that same sort of deal with, that we did with the truck, with the Porsche? Yeah.

I would love to bring, like I say, I love to share experiences with everybody. I would make you guys very uncomfortable if I took you to one of the actual places we go off-roading. Well, it's like what's like you will, there's times in Moab where we'd be like looking off and it's a 60 degree slope down and you're just looking at the back tires of the truck and jumping off the ground as you go down. Like, it'll redecorate your underwear.

Yeah?

Yeah.

I'm all right. What's the worst thing we're going to do? Roll down the hill? Yeah.

And a 1980 Toyota Pepsi can.

No, that's probably made a real metal.

Yeah. Japanese steel.

Yeah.

You know, Toyotas are famous for.

What's that?

They're really bad steel. No, it's. I take calculated risks.

Yeah.

Yeah. Sort of. Most of the time.

Well, it's nuts. I don't know. Like, yours looks pretty rowdy, like looking outside. But like when you were looking like straight down, I'm like, there's no more sky.

Yeah.

I was really hoping that we were going to go all the way over the hill there. I know you don't know it was on the other side, but I'm like, this is we're going to go all the way over.

Oh, we can. It's just a little dicey because I don't remember exactly what the layout is, and I don't want to drop a tire off the edge. And then we got a whole situation. Trying to not have a situation.

Yeah, because it's kind of overgrown over there. You're not really seeing everything. Yeah.

In the springtime, it was just all dirt, so it wasn't too bad. But yeah, no, this thing, I tipped it in Moab. I'm going back there in March, no, end of April. Moab was crazy. It's like phenomenal. The views, everything out there, like hundreds of miles of trails out there. It's pretty cool.

And there's different levels of trails, right? Like it's like they're all rated.

They rank them out there.

What are the rankings typically like?

It's like a one to ten for extremeness.

Okay.

Like tens, like, or like they'll set your, you know, minimum of 35 winch lockers required to go on this trail and like enter at your own risk side thing, sign the waiver at the gate.

Is it have to do with a lot of like straight up, straight downs, things like that too, or is it just?

No, they, like they have, it's hard to even put into words.

Yeah.

It's everything that like, you can't even imagine all the things they have out there. It's pretty cool. They had this, the trail I tipped this over on, it's called Escalator on Hell's Revenge. Hell's Revenge is one of the iconic Moab passes. And yeah, like this trail, there's buggies on 40s, like these big full tube jazzy rock crawlers, just idling up this thing, fully flexed out. And I chased them up in the Toyota and my tire slipped down into one of the holes and it just ended up like on its side. It's like, okay, like you can't drive up this wall. Like you can't walk up these walls. They're so steep. Right. Like it's, it's nuts. It stands that way a little bit more.

You're good. We're just resetting after our little adventure, our little excursion.

But yeah, man, no rock crawling. It's so vastly different anywhere you go to in Minnesota, it's like we have trail trucks. So Minnesota is a lot of these like it's more muddy, woodsy, like we were in the forest, you know, kind of.

Yeah. No, no, no sense.

And there's like you go to the Gilbert Iron Mine up north. So the Iron Range is it's old iron tailings from like where they hauled the ore boats across Lake Superior, like the Edmund Fitzgerald and those boats like haul iron ore. That's ore.

That's where the idea came from.

That's where ore, like what ore is from for that, the Iron Range up north. And yeah, basically this part, they built this park and literally just miles and miles of mine tailings and huge, like, you're talking, you know, 20,000 pound boulders and you just go climb through it with your side by sides, your Toyotas, your Jeeps, whatever.

And this is where at?

This is three hours north of here.

Dude, like what town were we talking? Like Hibbing area? Evelith, Gilbert.

Gilbert is the town.

All right.

Evelith, kind of Virginia, Minnesota.

Yup, yup. Up towards Hibbing. Yup, exactly. Yup, okay. Yup.

But yeah, like that's some of the terrain you can get in Minnesota, but then you go out west, you have like, next year I'm doing the Rubicon. So the Rubicon Trail is, it's an in and out trail, right on the side of Lake Tahoe. Takes a day in and a day out. And you camp out there and there's bears, like it's crazy. You have to have a satellite phone to like go on the trail.

Oh, really?

It's crazy stuff, but like that's all dry Northern California, and then like just the terrain is vast. Or I guess the United States has such a crazy amount of natural everything. It's like, there's no place in the world that compares as far as the amount of different things you can see here.

Dude, like, I don't think people understand just how big the United States are, right? Like even if you look at like California, of all places, like you can be on the ocean and then you're up, like it snows, and then you go a little bit too far up north, then you go down south, and it's just, you have palm trees and all this. Like it's just, we have such a crazy topography. Is that the word? I think that's the word.

Yeah, just variety. You have a variety of different terrains.

Like we have, what is it, the Sand Dunes in Michigan.

Yeah, that's Adam was just out there with his Porsche about a month ago.

That's pretty awesome. Are you guys as like, build capable of that too then? Going through all that?

Yeah, the best thing about off roading is there's no definition for it.

That is a good point. It's off road.

Yeah, you're off road. You like do whatever you feel like you want to do and push your limit as far as you want to push it.

Is it?

That's fun for anybody that tries it.

They say there's no stupid question. That was a stupid question.

There's no stupid questions.

Is it a growing sport? Are they, so I'm noticing some more OHVs. I have a side by side. I like to go out and rip the trails and stuff, but you don't really have a truck or they don't let trucks on them. But I'm seeing more and more like OHV trails kind of pop up. Are they kind of building more stuff and giving more infrastructure to that too?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like the like COVID actually kind of like launched a huge change in like people just going outside.

Yep.

Like overlanding and stuff like that, like where people just want to go get missing in the woods. Like I want to go disappear for 10 days. And like that's that's where it's going. Like there's yeah, there's the people that hardcore rock crawling guys that are like, you know, they tow the rig up for a day, abuse them lawlessly in the woods and then tow them home. And then you got the guys that are out there in a Porsche Cayenne with a roof tent on it and the whole family loaded up and they spent 10 days out in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah.

What are some like precautions you're taking? Like, for example, you mentioned bears, right? Like, are you bringing like an elephant gun with you or what?

I mean, you, you bring the strap for sure. You got to, but like, for the most part, like in Moab, right? The what kills you in Moab is temperatures.

Really?

It'll be like we wake up. We're out there in May, like around May 25th, like the last week, two weeks of May. And when we're in May or when we were out there in May, you'd wake up and be 45 degrees and then it'd be 85 by midday and sunny and dry. And then it dropped to 30 degrees overnight.

Oh, so you have to prepare for both.

So like you get stuck out there, you break an axle and the sun's going down and you're eight miles off into just this barren rock, rocks as far as you can see. And like you can die out there. But in like the Rubicon, you're in Northern California, like on Lake Tahoe and there's the natural predators and stuff out there and there's like big elk or moose. You know, you're going to get like a moose out, not elk, I don't think there's elk out there. But yeah, it's, you got to prepare pretty good. I got really good at actually preparing for events from drifting. Drifting teaches you to like think of every possible outcome, so.

Yeah, so I'd imagine, I've seen the guys, you get a winch, you want straps, probably different kind of, so if you roll over on your side, you're by yourself, you need to probably rig up different pulleys and stuff to get your s***.

You don't wheel by yourself at places like that.

No, okay.

No, that's a no, that's a no, no, that's, wheel in groups no matter what, if you can, even if it's two, there's always a way back then, you know? And like, like the stuff we do around here, like last weekend, we were just down in Frontenac right down by Red Wing. I don't know if you guys know where that is, right? Almost by Lake City.

I've heard of Frontenac, yeah, yep.

So Frontenac Off Road is like, it's a great local spot, it's 40 minutes from my house. And you can go down there, and you know, you're maybe a mile up a trail in any direction away from people, but there's a centralized campground, everyone's there. You can wheel alone, but we go out to these places like Moab, the Rubicon, like you're taking a very large risk.

Yeah.

Yeah. We brought our Enduros out to Moab, and like, yeah, I mean, if you kill your battery or run out of fuel, like you could be 20 miles. You could be looking at Moab on top of the rim, but it's a 1600 foot vertical drop to get down there, and you have to figure out a way home. Like it's wild.

Bring a parachute?

Yeah.

No, seriously.

It's like hot during the day, freeze it at night. Like that's a pain.

Yeah, it's nutty. It's the mountains though, you know? Like it's an hour and a half south of Grand Junction, Colorado.

Yeah, yep.

It's phenomenal. Like the country is phenomenal. It's worth it. We went out there with a group, actually one of my TCP customers. We built an F-body for him, and he's like, dude, I gotta build Jeep. He saw my Toyota outside one day, and then me and him actually met up and went down there. The dude with this Toyota Hiace, same thing. We were pulling into our condo complex after a 24 hour drive, and I was like, that's one of my customers from TCP. Met up with him, and they're like, yeah, I don't know. It's pretty cool. We ended up wheeling with those dudes all week, though.

That's pretty cool. I like that there's levels to it, right? Like you can go buy like a Ford Raptor, right? And go hit one of the beginner trails, too, right?

Well, and that's the coolest thing. And one of my good friends, Brent, I actually live with his mom, is like my landlord. So I live, we have this cool country house out there, but Brent, he's done like all these big, like Easter Jeep Safari, all the really big name stuff that him and his brother, Brad, are like in with the owner of Crawl magazine and stuff. And Brent told me one time, he's like, you're totally, it is perfect. He's like, cause you can always put forties and one tons. You can make this thing ridiculous. You can link it, coil overs, you put an LS in it, make it absolutely ridiculous. You're going to have just as much fun now with small tires, chasing smaller obstacles as I'm going to have, just simply doing that just on a bigger, more expensive scale. So, it's a perspective.

Yeah. So, what's the next step? I just bought myself a Toyota, and I've been out. It's been fun. Yeah, well, now I've got, I want to step my game up a little bit. What's the next step? Lift, gear tires, things like that.

Always start with a good set of coil overs, like upper control arms, you know, you gotta get your your angles, geometry right. You're gonna do wheels, tires. You figure out how, how aggressive you want to go. Like I'm not going to recommend bead locks for my, like just about anybody because they lose air. This thing's got bead locks on it. I put air on these tires every three days. And it's the most annoying thing in the absolute universe. But like you could do wheels, tires, bump, you know, a front bumper, set of rock sliders and a rear bumper. You don't even need to do that. That's simply a protection thing because you're protecting an investment.

Right.

But like you're talking, you know, $10,000 into a vehicle, any year Tacoma, and that thing will go anywhere.

Now, let's say I'm out there. I've done this. I now slide down the side of a rock and I just ding. I bend my door in half like a taco, right? I've just slid into some s*** or I hit a tree. And do I do I still get to call my insurance company?

Absolutely not.

Yeah, no.

I promise you, you can't do that.

Yeah, all right.

There's like track insurance and stuff.

Yeah.

I don't know. It's a real gray area.

Yeah, I'd imagine because you could be like, I was just driving down and hit a f****** puddle and slid into the road, right?

Yeah, but you're also driving your vehicle.

I don't recommend, you know, what is it, doing insurance fraud, by the way? Yeah, don't condone those activities.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But little disclaimer, they're very serious about that. If you try to do insurance fraud on something as simple as a windshield, like...

Oh yeah. We know that story.

Yeah, you and I know that story. I can't, we can't, we're not gonna snitch on no one here.

But...

I'm not a cop, don't worry.

But like, dude, they're serious. Oh yeah. Dude, they're gonna like, they're gonna inspect parts of you you didn't see in a few years. Like, it's just, it's like that, so...

It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, I know people have gotten paid out, you know, like, insurance companies are such a strange thing.

I know.

Like, it's really, it's really just a wild industry. Yeah, I guess, I don't know. I've seen, like, I saw a dude with a C7, he broke a control arm on a pothole in St. Paul, and he couldn't get an OEM replacement. They discontinued it, and the insurance company paid him off for a C7. Total it. He put a used control arm in it, and bought it back for like no money. But then you get dudes that actually get some crazy crash, but they're on the trailhead at Poison Spider and Moab. It's like, ah, you were at the Off Road Adventure Park, nope, sorry, we're not going to do this. Yeah, I don't know. It's a gray area.

I always wonder that, because you buy some stuff built for the purpose, right? You can go to Bronco, a Sasquatch Edition or something, you want to go out and do some off road and stuff, but then the second you use the car for what it's intended for, then the insurance won't cover you.

That's the thing, is like, protect them. Like, when you're spending that much money on a vehicle, if you don't protect it, that's on you. Yeah, fair enough. Like, this thing, like, this, obviously, this thing is hatched, inesthetic, but it's not, see how it's not all bent up? Like, the body's not cased?

You said you tipped it over, and I was trying to find out where.

I have rock sliders, I got tube bumper that covers underneath the bed rail and the whole corner of the bed. When I flipped it in Moab, that tire on the other side was off the ground. Like, it was swung that far into a hole when it was tipped over. All it did was push the mirror into the door and crease the door, and it pulled the mirror and popped it back out. And you'd never know that truck was fully on its side, like you could look at the bottom of it. I'll show you guys a picture, but.

All right, that's sweet.

So, okay, and you kind of touched on at the beginning of this podcast, so what's all invested in this truck, right? Because obviously this thing's a lot more capable than your, you know, Becky White Jeep from the dealership.

Right. So, it's up to 1985, Toyota made solid axle trucks in the United States. Solid axle being a straight beam front, which is this axle, like this truck is geared and locked, so it has lockers front and rear, has gears. Gears are required in Toyotas because they make zero power at all. And it gives it, it gives it like, it's power back, essentially, gives it a power band for like, this has 35s on it. I did drive shafts, the axles are trussed, welded, the frames trussed and welded and reinforced. It has what's called high steer. So these trucks factory came with a push-pull steering system, it's called. Or basically, it doesn't work for off-roading. It's just, it's the wrong type of geometry. So I converted it to an independent front suspension truck, steering box. Then I did dual transfer cases. It's got, oh man, I don't even know. It's all protected underneath. I have a three-ace plate skid shield underneath. It covers a hole under side of the transmission and transfer cases. It's got quarter-wall chromoly driveshafts in it. So like, I can drive this thing off of rocks on the driveshafts and they won't bend.

That's crazy.

It's pretty wild. And then, yeah, I did beadlocks, the bumpers, rock sliders, I fabricated that stuff, put that stuff in. I mean, I don't know, all in, I think I probably got about 10,000 bucks in this thing. And it's like, to me, it's the old-school cool, too. I drive this truck 10,000 miles a year on the street. Like I told you guys, I have a newer Sierra at home that sits in the driveway because this thing is like just bopping down the road. People are like, what is this idiot doing in this Toyota? But yeah, it's, I don't know, works good.

HOA does not approve.

HOAs are not real where I live.

I did notice the gearing because I was wondering that, so when we were about to go up over that hill, I'm like, it seems like it's about to die, right? But you probably can just feather the gas and she'll just crawl right the hell over it, huh?

The goal with the four-speed obviously is like, you don't want to ride the clutch all day. So Toyotas are slow, but they climb. You put them in low range. This one is 100 to one reduction, in low range, low range with this axle gear ratio. So the engine spins 100 times for every one time of the drive shaft.

That's nuts.

So you got to think about, when I jumped out, you're going half a mile an hour.

Yeah.

But it'll idle its way up vertical walls, because it's not tire spinning or anything. It just digs in and goes.

Yeah.

That's the Toyota technique, though. It's different than a big power rock buggy. They have rock balancers and stuff. I'm sure you guys have seen this video. This thing's just wide open throttle, big blown LS's flying up vertical hills. It's just a different world.

Yeah, then they just tip backwards and roll down, and then they push them over and do it again.

Oh, dude, that's a wild world.

Yeah, I need you to start sending me some of these videos and stuff, by the way. That's one of the things that I love, again, doing this podcast, is I like when people send me off-the-wall s***. Listen, I'll be honest with you, 90% of the memes you people send me, I don't watch, it's too much. But you send me something like this guy flying up a hill. All right, that's different, because it's just learning about different stuff.

Motorsport is so wide. Yeah, like PRI opened my mind to that.

Yeah.

When you go to PRI, it's like, dude, they have, you know, like Billet Cummins pulling tractors, and they have mega trucks, and they have just everything. They have rally cars, trophy trucks, like all these different aspects of motorsports. And it's all these real weird niche communities.

Right next to each other.

People just jump millions and billions of dollars into these industries.

Some people build big, lifted, beautiful trucks that could probably drive over other cars just to put them on a trailer, take them to a place, put them, show them, take them back in hundreds of thousands of dollars into trucks that never leave the pavement or a trailer.

It's like SEMA.

Yeah.

That's what I like. SEMA, dude, I had a great time. I went to SEMA once when I was at MAP, and we like ran into a mansion, and it was fun. It's a party in SEMA. You go out, you drink, you do all the fun SEMA stuff. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you hurt the next day, every day. But PRI is like, oh, this is what, when you're an actual enthusiast and you're passionate about motorsport, regardless of what it is, you're walking around, you see a billet turbo, like some big billet turbo that's got a 180 millimeter compressor wheel. So I'm like, they have these pulling tractor turbos. They're like this big. It's like, I didn't even know this was a thing. You know a tractor pulling tractor? I don't know if you guys ever go to some of the wild ones. They do the one right down the road here. And some of those run 300 PSI a boost. 300 compound turbo PSI on like a billet block in an international tractor. It's like, you understand that turbo charger is like $25,000.

And if you walk by that inlet, you're getting sucked in and blown off.

Dude, it's gnarly. I remember we were looking at the cutaways. Procharger had one of their blowers.

That's right where I walked in.

Yeah.

And it's literally the size of your beadlocks over here. Dude, it's huge.

And they're crank driven? Yeah. You got to think, OK, it's cool. This Procharger is crank driven. The crankshaft to drive that Procharger? Yeah. That's an $8,000 crank? That's nuts. And those things take, you know, 300 horsepower to spin them.

Yeah, yeah.

Like it's mental. They're absolutely crazy.

It's so cool. I can't wait to go back there. I'm excited for that one.

PRI., dude, I think we're going to try and make it down again, too. We'll have to link up down there. But yeah.

Well, it's like you were saying, like, you know, you have all these different niches. Like, for example, like over there, we had the Fanatec challenge going on with the GT4 cars or GT3, whatever Mercedes. Then you have this crazy off-roading thing. I forgot. I don't even know what it was. But you know what I'm talking about? Those crazy like it was really like this without the body. And then you have right next to them some Pro Mod. And it's just such a diverse environment. So I'm really stoked for that one.

It's so cool, man. And it's a fun party down there, too. Yeah, it's just that Indianapolis is a cool place. Like, it's fun.

We were definitely ill when we went, but we didn't get to party too hard.

Oh, dude, that was like top three sickest I ever was.

Really?

Dude, it was rough. You listen to the episodes from that one, episode 59 and 60. Like, I had one of my friends tell me, I didn't even know it was you. I thought it was like some other podcast. That was that sick.

I probably sound a little scratchy right now, but yeah.

Thank you. Appreciate it. But, okay, so you mentioned something about not doing beadlocks. Is that, just to kind of clarify on that.

Beadlocks suck for street cars.

Okay, but for like your instance, if you're actually off-roading, it makes sense? Okay.

Yeah, but some days, I just don't want to put air in my tires.

Okay.

But it's like when I run this thing at four to eight pounds of air when I'm off-roading it.

Yeah.

Like these tires like just squish out. And like if you don't have a beadlock, you are going to lose a bead. So.

That makes sense.

It's like, I don't know, there's just, there's levels to everything.

Okay. What? Okay. So I'm glad you bring that up then. What is a hundred thousand, you mentioned you have about 10 grand into this. What's a hundred thousand dollar bill look like?

As relative. Okay. Okay. So if you're, if you're one of those dropping at the shop and let somebody else handle it guys, like there's, there's different levels to it, right? Cause if you're, if you're a home build fabricator, like a hundred grand gets you a lot wilder set up than a guy who's dropping a hundred grand and dropping it off at the fab shop, or dropping it off at the tar shop, you know? Like if you drop off a car here, like we're building it, our labor is factored in, but like you can get a jeep that's going to go do anything. You drive a jeep anywhere in the country and crawl some of the gnarliest stuff in the whole United States for a hundred grand. Like you'll have a jeep that is like insane capable. But it just, it all depends on like what you're into and what you do with it.

Do you, sorry, context. What's it called? Is there any jeep trims that you recommend to people? Like if somebody were to go buy one right now, do you want them getting a base model or would you rather they come bring a Rubicon to you guys?

It depends on what you want to do with it.

Okay.

If you want to go buy like crate axles, go full tilt, put in an Atlas Transfer Case, right? Atlas Transfer Case $4,500. Those are like bomb proof, four to one reduction aftermarket cases. If you're looking to buy something out of the box and dump, you spend an extra 10 grand for the Rubicon, but you're going to get Dana 44s, you can do like a nice 37 inch tire without worrying about shattering axles all the time. Like it just depends on what you're going to do with it. I love when people call me before they go buy stuff because that's the way to do it. Like don't buy an expensive trim option if you're just going to throw all the factory stuff in the garbage regardless of the situation. Right.

Well, it's like race car stuff too, right? You built it, there's different aspects of off-roading, right? If you want to rock crawl, if you want to mud, I mean, if you want to, there's... God, what the hell, I can space in on it. What's the... What I want to drive fast over bumps and s***, like some of the Raptors and stuff can do?

The trophy trucks.

Yeah, yeah.

The pre-runners and stuff.

Yeah, pre-runners, things like that, yeah. That's what I want to do. So there's like different...

Same.

Different... You're going to build the truck to whatever you're wanting to go do most, right?

Exactly. And that's... Yeah, it just depends on where you set your heart.

Yeah.

That's the thing. Like me, like actually, that brings up a funny point. I'm looking into getting into Prospect short course trucks. It's a lateral move from where I was in drifting, finance-wise. So those are the ones they race at, like ERX. Like circuit trucks. And they're big LS3s of the G-Force dog box. And they... I mean, those, you're not consuming tires, you're consuming body panels. You're consuming, like, you're consuming bent control arms and stuff like that, because it's just full contact, wheel-to-wheel, high-speed truck racing.

And what kind is that called again?

They have, like, the Pro2, Pro4, ProSpec trucks.

There's a name for it, and I can't, I don't know why I can't... Well, the Bronco Wild...

You're talking about, like, the $400,000 factory Bronco?

No, the $400,000 factory Bronco.

Like, Ultra 4?

No, f***, I can't, I don't know why. I'm spacing out.

We'll be right back.

As soon as we kill the cameras, I'll think of it. Do the song a little, doot, doot, doot, doot. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, but anyway, we'll wait. No, we're not waiting.

Yeah, the cricket will keep us busy while we wait.

Yeah, I see that.

Yeah, that's our audience.

I don't know what that is. It must be mating season. I got one in my house right now, too, that's going nuts.

Dude, we come in here, you can't, like, you have to turn the music all the way up to work, and I'm like, I'm going to find this cricket.

What are your thoughts on these condos out here? Because this is the new ones. What are they called again?

Troy Garage Condos.

Yeah.

What do you get? You like them?

I love it.

OK.

It's like a good space. So we actually have two units here. So you can see the wall down the middle. Gotcha. So we actually not, they just left this wall out for us. But yeah, they're really nice. Good space. We like they come empty. They come with the bathroom, but no AC. They have in-floor heat, but you have to get the floors coated and do all that stuff. Adam had already done all that stuff before I got here.

Sounds like his problem.

And I mean, it's expensive, but it's relative. Like, if you rent one of these, the owner will generally pay you back for the money you put in. If you want to leave your unit with your lift in it, he'll buy the lift from you. Because it provides value on the next step, you know.

I'll get this bad boy a little closer. You're drifting on me.

I'm sorry.

I'm rolling my chair.

A pre-runner is what I'm thinking of. Yeah.

Re-runners are super cool, man. That's you're talking big swing sets, steering. You got like long trailing arms, 24 inches plus of travel. Like, they're so cool.

You're running off road course at like 80 miles an hour, probably. Yeah.

You ever see those? Yeah, they have this area out down in the desert, just outside of Vegas. I forget what it's called. It's kind of a weird town, but they have, they'll go out with helicopters or trace trucks on the, there's one paved road and they have a pre-runner course next to it. They're going like 100 miles an hour flat on the road, and these trophy trucks are just eating bumps. Just like, just Mad Max insane. They got like eight to one headers. Like they sound like nutty. They're the cool, it's some of the coolest videos I've watched. I'll literally just turn on a compilation of those videos on YouTube, and go, like drooling at it all day long, you know?

So, like, are you guys capable of building something like that here too then? Or are you?

We have, so Kyle, Kyle Nelson, the co-founder of MAP, he's one of the most talented fabricators I've ever known, and like he can build something like that.

Okay.

We bring a lot of work to him. Kyle's one of our great friends, me and Adam both. Like we're tight, and Kyle can build anything. He's built a one-ton swap to H3, like with radius arms and coilovers, using Super Duty axles and hydraulic steering. Like it's an H3 Hummer with a 5.3 and a six-speed auto in it. Like Kyle does that kind of fab work. We do more like the kind of, in this building specifically, we do like the more bolt-on. Okay. Yeah. Like the more general public builds. A lot of those trucks, like those trophy trucks, you're talking guys will spend $500,000 to $750,000 on them. And you're taking it to Kibbe Tech, you know, like down in Vegas. And they're going to build you a truck that's like, got suede headliner, but you can go through bumps at 130 miles an hour. That's just flat stuff though.

What does competition look like in this space? Like, I mean, not like business wise, but actually competing. Is there competing?

Like, is there anybody that could, like, have a get over the hill prettier than the other guy?

Yeah, like, if I build a Cayenne, can I go compete in anything with it or not really?

I don't, I guess, I don't really think so. I don't know. There's, there's like rock crawlers. So we have, it's called a rock rash. That's like an event where you scored based on how many times you back up. That's up in Gilbert at the iron range up there. So with like rock rash, they score you on, if you back up, if you hit a cone, it scored like, I don't know if you guys know what motorcycle trials is. You ever seen the bikes that don't have a seat? That did like jump up big crazy walls and they like hop around on rocks on the back tire?

Oh, I've seen them.

Sorry, we're dipping in the motorcycle world now. That's like, so it's scored similar. It's scored like golf. When you make a correction, you pick up a point and then you get like a maximum amount of points at some point. And that's like, that's the contest, but you're not gonna do rock rash with a Cayenne. Like rock rash has a name for a reason. Rock rash is violent on all vehicles. They use those big rock buggies and tube jassy stuff and...

Do you see much diesel stuff out there? Like if I want to take my 6.7 Super Duty out and go do that s***? Because it's got big old axles in it.

Super Dudes have the best axles.

Yeah, that's, I know that they use them a lot and a lot of stuff.

That is the market for Dana 69.

I have a locking rear diff. I got low range.

They're robust. Super Dudes are awesome, because you can put a coil over kit, a heim joint radius arm kit on them. Like, we can do that work here. You put 40s on that thing, some tube bumpers and bolted rock sliders, and you can go rock crawl a friggin brand new F350. Like, it's pretty wild that you can do that stuff.

Okay, I guess I know how my truck's gonna retire.

Yeah, I've been looking at regular cab short, or long beds, like with the 6.2, or even the 6.7s, because I think they look sick on 40s. 40s bead locks, coilovers, and those things will pull a big four foot of flex.

I have 35s on mine, because I'm still gotta use it for like normal s***. Oh yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah. Would you guys build a mall crawler if somebody wanted to come in here and be like, yeah?

I don't expect anybody to do the things that we do to vehicles. Yeah, okay. We love to build vehicles that are going to be stout, robust, will do the job if you want them to. But there's no, I don't sit here and judge people because they don't want to go hit some crazy stuff and total out their new Tacoma. Right.

I could never do that.

No, exactly. But some people want to have, they want something they can drive every day, it looks cool, and they're proud of it. Yeah. If you got something like, yeah, you might get the guy that wants a roof tent, like, yeah, I'm going to camp one time a year with it. But like, it's cool, spend your money on what you want, dude.

Do you guys install stuff like that too, then?

Absolutely, yeah.

Okay.

We do a full line of accessories, we do winches, recovery gear, we do, we sell this company, it's called Moose Knuckle Off Road, they make sweet like billet anodized recovery points. So they do like powder coated shackles like I have on the front of this thing. Then they do like, yeah, anodized purple receivers for the back. Exactly, we do like the pretty dress up parts too, but everything we do will work.

You have a go to winch that you...

The old Harbor Freight buddy.

I have an Apex Predator, or is it Predator, no that's Predator, that's my fricking... The Badland. No, the Badland's Apex, I have the 12,000 pound on my trailer, and I have one in front of my dad's truck. It's fricking awesome.

They're like, there's no reason to spend more money.

Yeah.

Like why?

You could catch it when you get the little coupon in the mail, like you can get it almost right around 500 bucks.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm in the track club, you know, I got the Harbor Freight map.

Oh, so do I.

Yeah, man, I get the 20% off coupon, go run it.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, this wedge, I paid 300 bucks for this, and this thing will pull the front of this, it'll pull this truck off the ground straight up. Like, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I'm not, like, kind of our motto here, like, with ORE is, like, we want to break the whatever's cheapest mindset.

Yeah.

So we sell high quality products. We do, like, general camping and adventure, too. So we're actually, like, we're getting ready to launch our site here, if not this week, next. We're going to sell tents and benchmade knives, and, like, we're going to sell, like, high-end cookware for camping and adventure stuff.

This is the whole kit, sort of, you know.

Yeah, so you can come in here and be like, dude, I want an ARB, you know, refrigerator. They make these, like, slide-out refrigerators that you mount in the back of your SUV. Like, you can come here and do that whole thing. And you want to just go camp. Some people don't even want to go rock crawling, but, like, they want, you know, a set of 33s and some cool Baja lights on the front so they can go see where they're setting up their campsite. Like, it's just cool. It's, yeah, it's cool. It looks cool. There's so many layers to it. We go to Rigs and Coffee at REI. Oh, it was at Bloomington. First Saturday every month, they do, it's called Rigs and Coffee. So you get all these overland guys bring their rigs out and they pitch their tents up. And like, it's kind of cool. If you want to get in the community and like learn, you go talk to people there and they're like, you know, yeah, I was out here in this state park and they allow, you know, like camping with a truck now. And like, they'll teach you information about that kind of stuff.

He says it's called REI?

REI, like the-

Yeah, they're like a sports store. They do climbing here.

Okay, okay, they're starting-

You know the big rock climbing wall right on 94?

Okay, it just hit me. Yeah, yeah, I've been there.

Yeah, so that's-

I think that was the club name or something. Okay.

Yeah, they hosted there on the first Saturday of the month.

Gotcha. I might actually go to that because I don't go to the other first Saturday of the month show anymore. So that might be a cool one to check out.

It's neat. It's cool to just go see. You'll see Tacoma is like done up Tacomas. And that's kind of our niche. That's what we're wanting to do.

Okay.

There's not a lot of off-road shops in the area too. There's a couple of reputable shops, but what we're doing is kind of, it's a little different.

Is there something that you won't do that you would refer to on other local shops, then?

There's certain platforms that we just don't have that much experience with. But overall, I mean, we do domestic trucks, Porsches, G-Wagons, we'll do Toyotas, we'll do just about anything.

But is there anything that you don't?

We don't get into old stuff. We like to keep modern vehicles, and I know that's funny. This is my personal toy. But generally, we're staying north of 03. If you bring me an old Land Cruiser, if it's a nice Land Cruiser, we'll build you an old 80 series Land Cruiser. But if it's a Minnesota truck, and brake lines have fallen out of it and stuff, we don't like to get into the real hard, in-depth stuff unless you get the blank check. And that's just the fact of the matter, is people will do that. And we have done it. But it's not always the easiest. You have to meet expectations.

Well, I can imagine that being difficult. It's like somebody brings a rusty POS from the 80s or 90s. It's a lot more extra work. And usually, if they're not bringing the, I shouldn't say usually, but if they're not bringing the nicest of options, they're probably not bringing the blankest of checks either.

Right. And I don't say that, because that sounds bad. As a business owner, you don't want to talk about things like that, too. And it's not meant to be a bad thing. It's just...

You have your specialty.

Yeah, we have our specialties. We have our niche. Like our specific market that we kind of go for. And we can always get great referrals to. If it's something that we don't like, if we didn't feel comfortable doing it, which honestly, we have a great fleet, especially with Kyle being a top notch fabricator. We can do just about anything, but it has to be, you got to meet goals. And a lot of that comes from, we sit down with people and we go through, you know, what's your goal? Where do you see yourself? What kind of terrains do you want to do? How long do you want to spend? Three days at a time off grid, or do you want to spend 10 days off grid? You know, like that's, we do commission builds, so we'll find you a truck, and we'll ship in the truck. That's the manual Cayenne that just left. That truck we found in California, shipped it here, had the bodywork done. And then this dude's like, we're doing bumpers, roof rack, tent, like wheels, tires, the whole thing. And he comes and picks up a final product too, so.

Well, I think that's something, again, I'm not sure how much business experience you have, but after talking to Adam like a handful of times, like that is something that you want to be aware of, right? Like when you cater to everyone, you're catering to no one. Because now all your builds take too long because you're constantly trying to figure out like, oh, I'm trying to learn this new platform. Keep it to, I mean, granted, you have a lot of different platforms to do.

Yeah, but keep it to what you know. What you know well and then be the best at it. And if you can focus your time on being the best, and that's like, like TCP, Karl, I love, shout out to Karl. Karl's a great, awesome human being. Me and him worked together for many years. He's the owner of Twin Cities Performance. Like premier LS and Gen 5 LT tuning building shop. And that's where I worked for three years, and like, that's it. We didn't tune anything else. We didn't build anything else. LS and Gen 5 LT, period.

Well, if you're constantly learning, you're not executing. That's just what, that's just the reality of it. If you're trying to learn Toyotas at the same time as doing coyotes, then you know, it's just, it's a time suck.

Yep.

Well, you probably don't have to dip, at least when you're doing off road stuff, like suspension geometry and suspension setups are pretty similar across the board, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure there's some off the wall s*** that does some really crazy, but.

Generally speaking.

Yeah, right. So as long as you're not like touching drivetrains and doing all that kind of stuff, it should be pretty cut and paste across. It's whether you can get the parts, I suppose, is the biggest deal.

How you get the parts, how you install the parts, and the parts that you use.

Yeah.

Like it's quality, knowing the good brands, knowing like we run what we've used. You know, like I can defend like a Bilstein suspension kit because I've used Bilstein, or I can do Camber control arms because I've had X brand brake or fail a ball joint at X miles. You know, like it's when you go out and test your products and you can give good referrals, like that's a lot of it too.

Yeah.

Giving stuff that you're confident, and you believe in, because people want sound advice.

Well, that and there, you gotta stand behind your build, right, so you don't want to put on janky stuff and have them be back here a week later.

Exactly, and like I say, we're trying to break the whatever's cheapest mind says. Like when you buy the cheapest stuff, like we don't want you to have to deal with that. Like we'd rather refer you or work with you to get to where it should be, you know?

Buy once, cry once sort of deal.

Yes, buy once, cry a lot of times. I'm good at cry. I'm just out of tears these days.

You guys do side-by-sides and stuff, too, if people bring them in?

We do sell side-by-side parts. I do not build side-by-sides at the moment. I know the side-by-side industry is huge. That's one of those things, though. I have great referrals in the area for side-by-side people. So like I can send you the best in the game. Just because like who I know, what I've seen, what I've seen tested, and who I've heard good, reputable things about. So we do sell parts. I'd sell like a lot of Baja designs, lights, and we do kind of cool parts like that, control arm stuff, but we're not going to push working on them quite yet until we have a little more space. We're kind of tapped on space here already.

Okay. Yeah, I guess why don't you say I build side-by-sides. There are going to be 15 of them out there.

Yeah, but side-by-sides are another thing. You get into like a 2015 Razer at this point. It's like, this thing is a dinosaur. The tech evolves so fast in that industry. I knew a couple of lead engineers at Polaris, and every year, it's just like completely redo everything.

They're basically jeeps or trucks now at this point, and they're $30,000, $40,000 now, too.

Yeah, you got a Pro R is what, $54,000? Like, dude, if I had one of those, I'd have to live in Moab. You can drive a side-by-side on the road in Moab, like as a car, but around here, it's like, what are you gonna do with that thing? You gotta sit here and like, look at it. I had an Armax, a Yamaha.

Yeah, I'm a huge Yamaha guy.

I love Yamaha, I grew up on Yamahas.

My dad has an Armax, and then I have a Viking, because I have four kids, so it's a six-seater. But 700 single-cylinder, just a tried-and-true bulletproof.

Just robust.

Off-road minivan.

Yeah, off-road corral, dude. You can go anywhere you want to go with the family, and that's cool.

Yep.

I'm just thinking about how many people are ruining financially with all the such wide variety we have on this podcast. I know, right?

It's ruining me financially, because I go in and, like I said, I go shopping right afterwards.

Dude, I hate money.

Yeah.

Like, I'll die on that hill. I absolutely hate money. But like I said before, it's like, I don't want to be pissed if I die, you know what I'm saying? Like, keep it havin fun, dude. And there's so many cool things. Like, if you lean on the right people, no matter what, you ask the right people the right questions, find good people in the market industry, wherever you're at. Talk to them and like, dude, yeah, I don't know. It's always worth it.

Nobody's ever gotten into any of this stuff that we have on this podcast. Like, if you're into cars, motorsports in general, you're not making money at it. It's not a thing. It's a passion. You're having a good time. It's like the smell of burnt gasoline and...

That's my favorite thing. I don't know if you guys have ever heard... I said this all the time drifting. To make a million in racing, you start with two. You know, like, you just burn money. I mean, shovel it into the fire. But, like, it's all relative.

But you're smiling ear to ear.

Yeah, I mean, if you're having a good time, you know? Just live within your means, but go out and have a good time.

Well, you're smiling ear to ear when your s*** works. Yeah. Because that's another problem with this whole... All of it, any of it.

Yeah, that's true.

S*** breaks.

S*** breaks. That does suck, but at the end of the day, it's your outlook and how you perceive it. And if you let it be something that kicks you down, then change it up. Try not doing that. Try to look at it in a positive light. Look at, like, oh man, when I blew my clutch apart at Gridlife in the D36, I was like, I can't drift. That sucks. But I can go listen to Taking Back Sunday with Chelsea DeNofa at the concert, you know? You go, like, just have fun. Do whatever you're gonna do.

That's such a cool, like, another way to just experience things. Like, all right, my s***'s f*****.

Yeah.

Go join someone else.

You save money.

Yeah, yeah.

Go ride with somebody else.

It takes a little stress off you, too, because now I can relax. I was worried about my s*** broken. It broke. We're past that point now. Here we go.

And at the end of the day, if you could just go find every aspect of what you do and just completely immerse yourself in it. Go find it all the way from the bottom up. Go get a freaking corndog if you had an event and your car breaks. Go try the corndogs out. Go get the stinky egg rolls at Proving Grounds. North Star Speed Summit. They got good egg rolls when your car's broken.

I've been wanting to hit up that Taiwan On truck every time I've been there. I may have a chance to. Yes.

10 out of 10. All right. Have a couple of twisted tees and some of that, and you're right in the pocket.

Well, we've noticed there's a lot of people that come to spectate. Like, I've camped. I think every time I've been to any event at BIR, the people next to me didn't bring a car, didn't bring anything. They're just there to, like, hang out. Hang out at the wheelie bar, watch this s***, drink a cooler beer in your golf cart and ride around, man.

It's fun to do it. I'm doing that this weekend. I'm going up Saturday for the day. I don't have a car anymore. I'm bringing my little, I'm bringing my enduro bike, my Husky. I'm just going to put around and go say hi to old faces. Like, oh man, I'm excited to do that. But yeah, it was always fun. Like I say, when you get to, you got those people there. And you're like, hey, jump in. Let's go for a rip, you know? Oh, that's so cool.

I was going to go this weekend, but it messed up. I messed up my schedule and it's actually during hay days, which is another big deal for me.

I love hay days, man. I've been there a couple of times.

Well, I have swap spaces, so I camp all weekend.

Oh, gotcha.

So I'm bringing out, I've got a couple of sleds, some four wheelers, all that s***. And you can't.

Want to go sell a Harley for me?

Dude, if you got it, bring it up to my house and I'll haul it out to hay days.

I'll have to kick that around.

Yeah. I'm just really into that part of it too, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, four wheelers, all that kind of s***.

Power sports.

Yeah, right?

It's a fun world, man. It's completely different to this or this, the drifting. It's like, it's its own weird market.

There's so many hobbies in this garage.

Dude, yeah.

No, that's the thing. Like, my Harley, I built a Dyna. It got second place at the Donnie Smith Motorcycle Show at the XL over the winter, and I do wheelies on it down the highway, on closed courses. That's awesome. Nobody heard that, but it's like, that, I don't know, it's fun, just doing fun.

The last 10 seconds to you were brought to you by AI. Yeah.

Well, I have swap spaces there, and if you stay till 3 o'clock on Sunday, you get those automatically again for next year. And they're like on Obtanium right now. Like, nobody can get the spaces, so I'm like, I'm locked into this now until, I'm gonna have to leave those spots to my kids.

Dude, 3 o'clock on a Sunday isn't too bad.

No, it's not bad. I don't care.

After PG, like, noon on a Sunday after Proving Grounds.

Yeah, you're done.

You know that feeling where you get home and you look at your shower and you're like, brother, I missed you. You're like, is that water? Do I have water in my fridge? I'd love a little water. That'd be great.

Well, as we wind down here, I am curious, what are, like, obviously with drifting, you have a ton of consumables, right? Especially with tires, right? What are some consumables on the off-roading side?

Consumables are travel, I'd say.

Really?

You build a road bus. Yeah, I mean, like, this truck's been together for a year now, a full year, and I'm not in bolted frequently. Like, I tighten stuff up. It loosens up. I mean, you see, like, when you're working it out, flexing the suspension out, it wears stuff out. You're gonna get that. You're gonna, you know, might pop a tire on a stick or something. You might put a hole right through a tire. When you're on the trail, like, you could get a brand new set of tires for your Tacoma and punch a hole in it. But most of the time is like, when you're really out doing it, your consumables are gonna be the travel time, the hotels or the camping gear, food, stuff like that. Like, we go out, we'll go out for a trip and you cooking steaks on the side of the trail and whatever else. That's where I'd say it is. But again, this is the cheapest hobby I've had a long time. And when you get out in the woods, for me anyway, being in the woods is a complete, like, it just makes me feel good. Like, you get your tires rolling down dirt and like all your problems fall away. Like, it's fun.

I think it also helps if you don't have something that's like brand spanking new. You know, like, oh, I scratched a paint on my brand new jeep, you know, sort of deal.

Exactly. Well, that's the thing, like I said way back in the start of it is like the less you care, the happier and more immersed you can become with something.

Yeah.

It's like Jack Nicholson said, you know, unless you give up, the happier you'll be is like, it's true. Stop caring so much and go out and start living. Like you're going to have a great time no matter what. Sorry, I probably sound like a philosopher on this.

No, trust me, listen to episode 100.

It's just some like, it's just, I don't know, perspective for me, like it, drifting changed my life. It brought me out, I was an introvert, like I didn't talk to anybody. Like drifting brought me into a different place in my life. It brought me to my job, my career now. Starting a company like rock crawling is like, you get out in the woods with your boys and like, you know, you just watch a sunset go down over the Rockies on top of some mountains. It's like, not a lot of people get to do this. And I will always sit and I will tell people, trust me, the money isn't that important. Just go do it and find it. And then when you do it, you're like, ah, I'm glad I did that.

Well, it's always great too, when you didn't have to walk up that mountain, right? Like some people hike those mountains. One of the greatest things I like about snowmobiling, in the winter time, like even some national parks, they'll just shut it down, but they keep the trails open for some mobile. I've been to the top of a mountain in like Lake of the Clouds in the UP. You can snowmobile right up there. And in the top of the mountain, there's just this lake up there. It's crazy.

It's so cool, but that's things like, you can't get to it unless you got what it takes.

Yeah.

My best friend in the whole world, Sam, I got a couple of real tight buddies. Kyle and Sam is my friend. He went with me to Moab a couple months ago, but he has an 03 4Runner with 33s only. It's not even lifted. It is a stock 03 base SR5 4Runner. And he takes that thing everywhere we go. Like carelessly, he's like a little more bold in strategy than I be, but like, dude, like you don't need much. Yeah. Yeah, people get so comfortable and they don't want to break our comfort. Like you come out of your comfort zone and go try some of this stuff. Like, yeah, it's worth it. That's why I want a 4-seat though. I love bringing people out. And then they're gonna be like, I need a rock crawler. My best friend, one of my good buddies, Marshall. You seen that TLE 36 at North Star Speed Summit? I think so. TLE 36 sedan. It's my homie Marshall. He texted me about a month ago. He's like, dude, I just bought a jeep, and I want to go rock crawling with you because it looks really fun. And I was like, you bought a jeep? He sends me a video on Snap of him with this jeep. And I was like, sick. Like, he just did that. And then we went out rock crawling. He's like, this is crazy. I don't even like drifting anymore.

There's, it's weird when you switch from hobbies, man. Like, you're drifting to off roading, or like some people, it's just, there's so many different aspects to this, man. It's cool to see.

You went from fast and sideways to slow and upside down. Yeah.

He's been upside down drifting, too.

Yeah, that's true. I guess, sorry.

But then, yeah, like, I rode, like, motorcycles. I've ridden, like, high level Enduro and trials my whole life and doing wheelies on Harleys and stuff. Like, I live a little wilder than some people. I just like having a, I don't know, wildlife is fun.

Yeah.

It's fun living a little close to the edge. I'm an adrenaline junkie, though. Like, adrenaline's, it's cool.

On that note, Dan, do you want to pop the usual three? This is going to be a f****** wild one.

Yeah. I mean, I can't even guess.

I can't get it. Yeah.

All right.

So at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guests to pick three cars. You have an unlimited budget. Build, swap, whatever you want.

Okay.

We need a track car, a show car and a daily driver.

Oh, huh. Daily driver. Oh, man. Iconic, Zagajara for sure. Like an Agera R. I'd daily one of those. I'd put some Pilot Sport or some...

You f****** drift, guys. You know who else we had? Episode 41. It was Jacob Jorgensen. I mean, you may have seen it. He had an LS Swap.

Yeah, he did a video of my car on the road course.

Oh, really?

I carmed again last year.

He also did a Iconic, Zagajara for a daily. Dude.

I mean, if it's just paper, right?

Right, yeah, yeah.

I had a customer who had those stickers in his brand new Denali's. Like, he just... It's just paper. I was like, it's more than paper, but yeah, I suppose. But yeah, I'd do a Iconic, Zagajara for a daily. Granted, I have to fit in it. I don't know. I haven't tried one out. Not that that's in the realm of it.

You could have it stretched and get the roof up a little bit.

That's true, like, shacked in.

Yeah, it's shacked out, yeah. And then, track car. I want to buy a HDK Eurofighter. Like, the HDK Racing, they build, like, the crazy Carbon Kevlar, like, Mark V Supras, with, like, 980-wheeled Jay-Zs in them and a Samsona sequential. You can order, like, a fully-built car. I think they're in Poland. And that's what I would do, drift car. It's like a James Dean and all the big-time dudes drive in competition around the world.

What was it called again, H-E-G?

H-G-K.

H-G-K, oh, sorry, okay, gotcha.

Full Carbon Kevlar, like, crazy cars. But that's what I would buy for a track car. And then, what's the last one?

Show car.

Show car. Man, that's a good question.

I'd probably do just like a real handsome E36.

Just a real, a real handsome E36. Like a nice E36 on some like BBS RKs. Just dumped, like slammed. Nice lightweight wing. I could do like E36 lightweight, I guess. I mean, if the budget's unlimited.

It took everything in me to not buy that black BMW that Adam was selling.

Yeah, that's the nicest way for it, the land yacht.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That thing was pretty sweet. Oh, dude, that car. I love a clean BMW.

Yeah.

That car was so good. We're tall boys. You can get in a 7 Series. Oh, yeah. Like, it was like a couch. It had footrests in the back for the passengers. Really? Yeah.

What are you, 6'6?

6'6, yeah.

Okay. It's just a hair taller than me.

You 6'5?

6'4.

6'4, yeah.

Yeah. 6'3 and 3 quarters, but who's counting?

Yeah.

If anybody's trying to do my Wikipedia, round up.

Anything over 6, man. You usually don't got to tell people.

Dude, whenever I sit in a Ford GT, it's like, don't get decapitated.

Dude, GTs are so cool. Yeah. You ever drive a Viper?

I'm going to be able to drive my first one here in the next week or two. It's, yeah.

You sit in them like this. It's like the shifters way out here. It's like you're almost laying down in them. They're very weird.

I need the seat-lowering thing to fit in it comfortably if I want to drive it, especially if I were to ever have a helmet in it. Like, yeah. But yeah, I'm going to be able to drive my buddy's stock one here soon. So people know me for knowing a lot of Viper people. Nobody knows this guy. But yeah, no, I'm excited. That's going to be... I've driven an ACR Extreme in a parking lot. That doesn't really count. The tunnels in those are so narrow, dude. Like, you need a driving shoe for that car. It's so narrow.

Dude, do you have driving shoes and stuff?

I actually picked up my first pair today. That I got. Shout out to Lambo Dad. He got me a pair. Yeah, I worked out a deal. He's like, I don't use them anymore.

That's awesome, man. Yeah, I have a full suit Hans device. I have a full carbon pyrotech. Like, when I did drifting, I was fully certified for Formula Drift Prospect.

Really? That's cool.

Like, do you drive your shoes? Like, when you get out of your car with driving shoes, you're like, mm-hmm, yup.

We stopped for ice cream at Selma's here just south of town.

That's right. My house is right over there.

Oh, really?

My house is like a mile, two miles from Selma's.

And some old guy, first of all, there's some nice twisty roads there, right? I was behind him with my GT500. He was driving the speed limit in a C8, and I'm like, you son of a b****. I was not having a good time. And then all of a sudden, I get around him eventually, and I get to Selma's, and he shows up, like maybe 20 minutes later, and he gets out, old as hell, with driving shoes on. And I'm like, dude, come on. If you're going to wear them shoes, then drive it.

You better get a heavier foot, my boy. Oh my god. No, it was always fun. Like I used to walk around on the paddock, you know, you'd have your suit tied halfway down. You're like, God, I'm being way too legit right now.

Well, speaking of Selma's, that's literally where I got my first tic. It was right around there. Somebody was driving the speed limit. I had been five below.

Oh, down there, they go five below.

I went around the left, and I looked over. I'm like, oh, there's no car or whatever. I'm like, all right, there's a chick in my passenger seat. I'm like, I'm gonna f****** mash it, bro. And then literally step out. Oh, there's a car, no big deal. Let's step on it a little bit faster. Get back on the right. Whoop, turned out it was a cop. He pulls me over, and I'm driving somebody else's car, and I look pretentious as f***. Like, it wasn't wrong.

Just that guy.

I'll show you a picture of the car I was driving. You'll be like, yeah, the cop hated you. It was pretentious.

Oh my god, that's funny.

But anyways, guys are like, yeah, I locked up my brakes and all this. I'm like, I should have asked them, like, show me. Like, let's go see the squeal marks, because we had a solid half mile before anything would have happened.

Yeah, and you're going 25 miles an hour there anyway. Like a normal speed, there's 25.

It was dumb. Okay, so I don't usually like to ask this question on the show, but is there anybody that you would recommend having on that just has done some really cool b***** stuff?

Kyle Nelson.

Okay.

Co-founder of Matt. Kyle is the most influential person I have ever met in my life, and he would be, I mean, I recommend him over anybody. I think you guys would, you're going to need to clear more than two hours for Kyle. That would be a two-parter. He built the record holding DSMs. He built the record holding EVOs back in the day at MAP. He founded the DSM industry. Like in my opinion, I think, like Kyle, he has the original RX-7, the old MAP-FD. He has it now again. Really? And like, dude, Kyle, I'll link you guys up. All right. I think that you would be very lucky to interview Kyle. He's a great dude. Yeah.

Well, on that note, where can people find you?

Instagram. So ORE Off Road is our Instagram. My personal is skidworkskurt, which is, that's my like drift Instagram thing. S-K-I-D-W-E-R-K-S, underscore Kurt. And then ORE Off Road on Facebook, and I'm Kurt Thomas. I'll add people there if you ever want to chit chat. I'm always down to help out. So.

Yeah, that was very true. You got a very good energy about you. Thanks, man. Yeah, I got to point it out. Uh, Dan?

Uh, you can find us at Gunna Garage. Um, yeah, we're trying. Two N's. My God.

Always forget the two N's.

Not Goon-nugger.

Yeah, right? I feel like this is the only way to spell it. So I don't know if I have to...

Yeah, Gunna, I would have assumed two N's, but I'm supposed to never know.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to tell you.

And then do you also want to shout out Adam as well?

Yeah, shout out to Adam, my business partner. He's awesome. Um, we're doing some cool stuff. And I'd like to keep an eye out. Definitely watch the socials. We got some cool builds coming up. If anybody ever has any questions or wants to come check it out or go off road and give me a shout, I'd be happy to share with them. I know.

Sweet. As for me, you guys are on this channel. Make sure to, I guess, check out the next episode. Thank you very much for listening. I'll see you all next time.