116. Making Fast Cars Last, Tuning LS/LT, Street Cars, w/ Justin White and Ed Armbruster

Is there one that makes sense to build over the other? Like if you were to do Z06 versus Stingray, what makes sense?

It depends on what you're trying to do. If you really think about it, how many people have put $150,000 in their car, and they're slower than me? The big thing that kind of gets me is a lot of people like to gatekeep a lot of stuff. I've never been a fan of that.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide podcast. I'm your host, Harris, AKA Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations. And I'm here with my Ford loving co-host, Dan. Yep, Mr. Gunnar Garage.

What are you going to do if I get something other than a Ford? What are you going to have to change it up?

You're going to have to sell all 20 of your Fords?

We're going to work on that today for sure.

Yeah? Yeah.

All right, we'll see.

And today, this one's been a long time coming. So we got Justin from Justin White Tuned. Nailed it, I think. Perfect, perfect.

Okay.

And then we got Ed from Vet Lab. Is it Vet Lab or Vet Labs?

Well, if you're from the Midwest, you always put an S on everything. But so it's Vet Lab. There's only one lab, but we'd like multiple labs. But currently, it's a singular lab.

Well, you guys, GM is interesting whenever we have GM guys on the show. It's a wide variety. But Justin, why don't you go ahead and explain who you are. I know we'll jump over to Ed. But basically, what does he do? You do a lot of stuff with tuning vets. That's kind of what you're known for. That's how I found out about you was through my friend Caleb Eisenberger, episode 77. That was a riot of an episode.

But yeah, basically, I've been tuning for about 16 years now. Yeah, you. But 16 years. But I do it kind of a little different. And I like to travel big with networking, things like that. So kind of just learning from everybody. And now we're looking at trying to get into your space to try to spread information and kind of link everybody together. Yeah, the podcast space.

Right.

Well, if you're tuning GMs, if you've been doing it for 16 years, it probably haven't changed much, right?

That was rude. That was a shot.

There's been no technology.

Believe it or not, we finally have widebands.

Got widebands.

Yeet. I mean, it only took. Ever.

Forever.

Yeah. Until now. But unless you had like a crappy four banger or six cylinder, they had widebands. Yeah. But for some reason, none of our performance car got them until now. 2020. But no, lots of lots of lots changed, especially when we got into the DI stuff. A lot of the guys that were kind of winging it in the Gen 4, Gen 3 world, they were good at Gen 3. They were winging it at Gen 4. They were kind of getting there. Gen 5 came out and exposed a lot of lack in people. A lot of people that didn't really do a lot of their research and testing before they moved to doing that. So things changed quite a bit.

Do they run just a DI injector? Do they have a port injection also, like a dual?

So the C7ZR1 has both. But the port is technically only for catalyst cooling. But yeah, the rest of them, they're all just DI. We just add the port when we want to make power. I know y'all got it factory. But then your DI sucks.

Yeah, well, that's what my next question was going to be. Do they typically, on a very high horsepower build, do they block off the DI then and go?

If they're super unsmart, they do that.

Okay.

Yeah, but it kind of kills the mid-range and low-end so bad. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you're trying to make 2,000 plus horsepower, sure. Because at that point, you're shoving so much boost and fuel in it, it doesn't really matter. But for cars 1500 and under, it's a substantial loss if you do that.

Okay. Well, we kind of talk about this too all the time, where you're in that 12 to 15 before things start to just get ludicrous, right? Now you're in a whole nother level of ball game and money and s***.

I think people don't understand. A lot of people, I make 1500.

Yeah.

A lot of people don't really make 1500.

Right.

And you know that you make 15 plus when you have to start worrying about fuel temperatures. You have to start worrying about, I mean, all these little things. Like I've had an injector fail and take out a $30,000 engine. Holy s***. And that car was making 1700. Once you get to that 1500, it's like everything past that, is so critical. But under 1500, we can daily drive that without an issue. Pump E85, no problem. So, it's definitely a different world, and I don't think a lot of people realize that.

No, I feel like nowadays, 1000 is like a baseline, right? Like we can all kind of start there, and it's not too hard or difficult anymore.

But that's another thing. A lot of people that claim they make 1000, you know, my car making 980, I would mop people up left and right, left and right. And people are like, oh, you got to make, I'm like, dude, I make 980 something.

Yeah, low 900s is an eight second Corvette.

Yeah.

We were out in San Antonio, and I stopped by Lethal Performance, and I dynoed the car there, and it made like 980 something. And he's like, there's no way. And I went and raced their car. I think it made like 1100, and I beat it. So I did spray the second time, but the first time we were like that, and they made 11, I made 900. So you'd be surprised how many cars make 1000 that don't.

Yeah, it's a rounding error. I get it.

But it's so far off. I mean, I've seen 700 horsepower cars claim 1000. It's so weird. But the ones that really make the four digits and up are very rare. It seems common, but it's more rare than you think.

It's kind of like that TikTok Instagram sort of deal. Like, it's like everybody makes 1000, and then you'd actually go out somewhere.

Yeah.

You know, yeah. Then you also see like I mentioned this on a previous podcast. You go to like Texas 2K. Well, yeah, that's like the Super Bowl, right? Like, everybody that's fast is out there.

When everybody ships in, they're crazy cars.

Right, yeah.

You know, so like I'm saying, it's not as common, but I mean, it is common enough that, you know, every city's got 50 of them.

You know, the other thing, if you're...

Maybe not up north.

A thousand horsepower car on the street. If you're making north of a thousand, and you're trying to roll race the car, especially like a Corvette platform, you can't put all that power down. You just can't.

Unless you're in Houston, where our roads are cut and grooved, and they're concrete.

Which is better.

Which, you know, they don't want us to street race, but like, bro, you made the perfect street race. They literally built 99, the tollway, and it is perfectly horizontally cut concrete. I'm like, you took our track away, and you gave us a race road, you know? You kind of made this.

In Detroit, if you have 150 horsepower, not hitting a pothole is still a difficult task.

Yeah.

I didn't mind the roads out there, to be honest with you.

The condition, but the layout, what the f*** is going on over there, man?

Yeah.

It's like we got weird angled roads, and seven of them coming into one intersection, and we were on one road we had to go up, and it was like five lanes came down to one, and then you had to U-turn around.

Yeah, it's an obstacle course. You try to keep it interesting.

Yeah. Well, you could be in Puerto Rico. Most of the roads are unnamed road.

Yeah.

That's a thing. Yeah, like my address, you couldn't, I couldn't give you my address, and you get to my house.

You just drop pins?

Yeah, I have to. Yeah.

Are we going to go down this Puerto Rico road after last night?

We go down wherever you want to go. Well, not wherever you want to go. Yeah.

So you're based out of Puerto Rico then, right?

Right now, yes.

Okay. Do you bounce between there and Houston or?

Right. So I have another place in Houston as well that I'll come to. It's just a place that I basically fly into, somewhere I can stay when I do my travels because we travel all over. But yeah, my family's in Puerto Rico, and that's where I live, and that's where I plan to stay.

Slide this bad boy to your left, by the way, like the entire mic.

Horsepower is not always the only factor. I mean, there's a thousand other factors, gearing, transmission, 10 speeds, 6 speeds. Yeah.

That's another thing that I'm real big on. We've been talking about this small cam that Thule offers that I use, makes killer power, but what people are lacking is power over the curve.

Yeah.

So the next cam that makes similar power to this cam that we run, we're making a hundred more foot-pounds all the way down to like 3,000 rpm. So we're carrying all of that across. So yeah, we make 980, right? But we make 980 way back here, and it carries all the way to 7200, 7300. Okay. I know that's not, that's where y'all get started partying.

Yeah, yeah.

But that's the end of our party. We're tapping out.

Well, do you find it harder, or I don't even know if you've played around with, but would you say that it would be easier to tune a car with one cam than it would be like variable cam timing? Or do you get...

Oh yeah, because the VEs, because you have to have a torque model and a VE for every cam position.

Right.

But if you're trying to tune a dual overhead cam car that has wide bands as opposed to a single cam car that doesn't, I mean, it's kind of six and one half. We spent a lot of time getting these LT4 cars dialed.

Well, and I think the other thing is the Coyote guys don't really change the cam a lot. Right?

No.

So if you're running the same cam, your VE, not so much your VE, but your torque model, all that should be pretty close because you're not actually moving where the efficiency is. You're just adjusting the top half now. Where with the GM stuff, we're putting a cam in there that obviously runs like dog s*** down low.

Right.

So we're having to really work the torque model and put it into something that it's not used to. But yeah, the wide bands make it so much easier. On the Ford stuff, you're like, do this, okay, that'll work. A GM, you do that, that's a motor.

Yeah.

So.

I did put, I had one iteration of a car. I had NSR cams in it. So on the intake side, the lope just had a little bit of extra duration. Like it wasn't higher lift or anything. Just stayed open for like a half a second or whatever it is. I'm sure it's way faster than that. Just stayed open for a little bit. It was supposed to be some kind of a blower cam. But I blew that one up.

So that happens.

It does.

Before we go down more now like this road, do you kind of want to give a little bit of an idea of like what your background is? You said you've been doing this for 16 years. How did you build your name? Because you're obviously one of the, I shouldn't say obviously, but you are a very well known name in the Corvette community.

Yeah, he's a premier tuner in the Corvette community.

He's premiered in many things.

I really started work. I went to UTI because I got expelled from high school.

Is that urinary tract infection?

Yeah, so I was like, I could do a UTI. But I went to UTI and I did really well. Believe it or not, I didn't even work on cars before then. I built a rotary, but who hasn't done that? But I went to UTI and I did really well, and I got signed by GM to go work for GM as a technician. And I met a guy, Arthur Grotzma, who does like heavy line and stuff like that, and he kind of took me under his wing and really helped me a lot. Then I got into being a Corvette tech, so I did all the schooling for the Corvette tech, and then I had the horrible idea of doing diesel. And eventually, I was just like, man, this isn't fun. So I opened a shop, I had a guy come tune three cars, he blew all three up.

What timing was this, by the way?

This was 2000, when I graduated the urinary tract infection in 2007. So I worked for GM from then all the way till about 2011, is when I decided to try to do my own shop. But yeah, he blew up three cars, and I was like, s***, I could have did that. So actually, a guy out here, Zippy, he was a tuner out here in Vegas for a long time. He was doing a class, and so I came to do his. And I guess what kind of makes me a little different, a lot of tuners go to like a tuner school or something like that, and I've never done that, because I feel a lot of the ways they teach, while it works for them, and it works for a lot of people, it doesn't work the way that I would want it to work. I want to know what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it's affecting the car, so.

And is that not taught?

They more teach like, hey, we use this value because we've seen this.

Okay.

But how did you come to that value? How did you get there? And does that work in every application? And if you really know a lot of the ins and outs of the HP tuner stuff, you can have the two files two different years that look identical. There's a big thing with CTSVs. That's where I really started making a big name, was the trans tuning for CTSVs. I was lucky enough to work with Circle D, so we could actually see the real pressures of what was going on. And if you compare that to what was in the tune file, it's completely wrong. Like shift time is not shift time. The oncoming pressures, they don't do what people think they do. And they teach it according to what it says it is, but if you really did that and saw the pressure sensors and saw what was really going on, you would know exactly how to manipulate that. But they can't teach that. How could they teach that? So I get their model, but I don't go that route. But a lot of other tuners, they have a shop, and I've done that. I'm not good at the run the shop thing. It's too much.

Well, you can't do what you're best at.

Well, that's the thing, is a lot of these guys, they'll run a shop, and they try to be the tuner, and the guy that runs the shop, and all of that. And so where did his time for R&D come in? When does he have time to learn anything? He doesn't. So my sole job is tuning. So I would hope I'm better than a lot of the other people. Right?

Well, it's kind of like Sam Barros we had on. Like, he just tunes a ton of GTRs. Like, he did 340 last year. It's like you'd think he'd be pretty good at tuning GTRs.

Right? He is.

And once you see that, that's the other thing. It's kind of a unique advantage because... So I deal with a lot of shops. We tune in seven or eight different countries. Okay. So we see such a large spectrum. When people are like, oh, man, I'm seeing this issue. I know it's not common. I'm like, well, actually, it is. So the big thing that kind of gets me is a lot of people like to gatekeep a lot of stuff. I've never been a fan of that because I know what it was like coming up with no money trying to go fast. And that's honestly why we got into tuning and building cars, because we couldn't afford to do it.

What was your first fast car?

Fast, fast.

Fast, fast.

For the time.

Yeah.

My first car that I felt accomplished with was the GSR Integra. I had a GSR with an eBay turbo kit, and on street tires went 11.8 or 11.9, which for that, that was really cool for me. I was excited about it. I built it all myself. I don't know how old I was for that, but that was the heydays. Okay. But honestly, I build my stuff as kind of proof of concept. So the C7 that I did, it was literally just to say, this is the simplest way you can do this to go fast. I didn't think it would run as fast as it does, you know. It's a solid 3-second 60 to 130 car. It's been 3-3, which is really hard for a C7. But I started with a base model because Z51, which is basically a Z06 without the motor and a basket in the trans.

Okay.

But I kind of, I don't go after like the record time stuff. I do that with customers. No problem. I'll push whatever they want. But for me, I don't want to do something that I can't say, hey, here's the ticket, here's what you should do for your...

But you can replicate.

So we did Cadillac Attack, and my wife and my infant rode with her all the way, a thousand miles, she drove to the track. We were on mid-eighties all weekend, drove the car back. So that's what I like. I like street car stuff. I like stuff that we can really run a good time. We can do it with a simple setup. There's nothing fancy in there, and everything's listed out. If you want to copy that car, here it is. Just let me know. I'll tell you everything that's in it. A lot of shops don't do that, and I don't like that.

Can you kind of touch on why the C7's difficult to make work at a certain level?

I don't believe it is.

Well, you just mentioned this a second ago, like getting into the low, low threes and stuff like that.

Rear wheel drive.

Okay.

It's just the traction, especially if you're trying to make, when we were talking about the efficiency, if you're trying to make that, where you're making all this torque at like 3,000, you got to make that work. You got to put that to the street and in a rear wheel drive car. It's a good car for weight distribution. It does really well. But there's a limit where you're just not going to be able to go any faster, I think.

How does it compare to like, because I know you had Calvin on your podcast, the Go Hard podcast. And how does it compare to a Viper, right? Because I'm familiar with the Vipers, EnthMoto's right in my backyard. I've gotten tons of rides in those, but is there a way to make a C7 work to that level?

Yes.

On the street?

I believe so.

MoTec.

MoTec.

Okay.

But I think a lot of things, and what I learned with Calvo is, well, obviously there's a financial difference between a Corvette owner and a Viper owner.

Yeah, okay.

Well, I say that because you gotta think the suspension they can put on those cars, the wing that they could put, Calvo said something about like 3,500 pounds of downforce from that wing. 3,500 pounds of downforce on the back of that car is going to hook up better.

True.

It's gonna be able to use it. So, MoTeC's one aspect, because you have the traction management, you have all of that. But as Delgado said, if your chassis doesn't work, it doesn't matter how much management you have, your chassis needs to work. But I think the Viper has that advantage. They have really good distribution. They have a real solid chassis. The downforce plays a big effect, and they all have MoTeC, because their factory computer system is terrible. It's out of a minivan.

Yeah. Well, did you ever see the older Viper? I think it was the Gen 3 Viper. It's literally like two... They took something out of a four-banger or a six-banger, and they're like, I think it was like coil packs or something like that.

Even the Gen 5, though. The PCM was the same as the 2012 Jeep I had at the house. I was like, that's the same computer.

Well, same timetable, right? They came out in 2013 for the Gen 5s. I was like, yeah, we'll just stick it in there.

Yeah, this was a 14, and I was like, man, this is just a Jeep with more cylinders.

Yeah, but when you're sitting inside, you don't want it to look like a PT Cruiser. I mean...

Well, I think the other unique advantage, if you've ever looked under a Viper, it's all hand-made.

It's a kit car.

Yeah, it's literally a kit car. I mean, everything's set up properly. But Corvette, it's a mass-produced vehicle. So they get a lot of aspects. They do a lot. And for what a Corvette is, it's a hell of a platform. I mean, I don't think it's as good of a platform as the V2 was, but it's a damn good attempt. But it's real hard to compare it to a car that was literally built to be a race car. So, you know, Corvettes are made for this. They just happen to do this.

Yeah, and they're made for the Golf Course, and, you know, they're parked outside the retirement home. I mean, it is.

The pedals are perfectly space for new balance shoes.

Yep, yeah. For the orthopedic shoes. They have plenty of room for those.

Ah, they're Adidas.

You could wear those.

I should have brought my new balance.

Wear those in a Corvette.

But I was told I can't wear the nice new balance because I have a Stingray.

Oh, right.

So I literally had a guy gave me a part number to the shoe that I'm supposed to wear as a Stingray owner. I bought them, absolutely.

So here's a conversation I've heard before then. I'm glad you brought the Stingray thing up, right? Is there one that makes sense to build over the other? Like if you were to do Z06 versus Stingray, I mean, what makes sense? We'll get back to the show in a second, but if you or your shop is building a car this winter, you might need components for an exhaust, an intake, charge piping, and who knows what else because you know builds never end. If you need mandrel bends, flex couplers, T-clamps, and more, make Hayes Performance your first stop so you're not sitting around waiting on your stainless steel goodies. Check out everything they have to offer at hayesperf.com and use code Minnoxide for free shipping as well. Let's get back to the show.

Stingray.

It depends on what you're trying to do. Because if you buy a Stingray that's not a Z51, you don't have dry sump, you don't have the adaptive suspension, you don't have the electric diff, which arguably is trash anyways. So yes, there's a big difference there. But a Z51 car is a Corvette, it's a Z06. The only difference is the body panels, which arguably is less drag. The engine, because with the price savings, you know, the 30, $40,000 more, I could just build that motor. There's one drum in the transmission that's different. The top drum, it's like 300 bucks, you pop the trans out, swap the drum. The torque tube is aluminum in the Z51, where it's carbon in the Z06, which is 14 pounds. But again, arguably, aluminum will not break from aluminum as easy as carbon breaks from aluminum.

Okay.

And I've seen that.

I always wondered what that argument was. I can't remember which forum or whatever I was looking at, but there was like arguments against carbon in that instance.

Well, and like I said, I haven't seen it a lot, but I have seen it. But I've never seen, because I had one, I had a torque tube for my car, I was going to swap to the carbon. And then literally a week later, somebody broke one. And I was like, here, buy this one. Cause I was like, I just don't want that issue. Because like I said, I want to be able to get in my car, drive it wherever, race, and be competitive. I don't need to be the fastest. Because again, a lot of people don't realize that's a niche thing. I like to help everybody. I want to bring, I want to make everybody faster and do it on a budget that is affordable. Because how many, if you really think about it, how many people have put $150,000 in their car and they're slower than me? That's bad. And they don't have to be. They could have asked. I would have told them. Other people have done the same thing I've done. They just, they don't tell people. Nobody wants to just give it out and I don't know. I get it. And there's certain things I don't tell everything, obviously. But it's not enough.

Keep your own secret sauce. Yeah, I get it.

But it's not enough that won't, you know, that won't allow you to achieve everything I've achieved. You know, now did I spend two weeks straight and four sets of tires to run my first three? Absolutely. But I did that, and then I gave the information out. And then people don't listen, which is kind of funny. Happens a lot.

It does.

So this is kind of a thing that we've noticed in Minnesota. Anybody who's got a 360 cam is usually not fast. Is that the case, like, where you guys are at or not really?

I have a 360 cam.

Okay, so.

Well, he just admitted to not being the fastest, though, so.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I'm okay with that.

Yeah.

What's your favorite car to race against? Who's your favorite competitor?

Man, I don't know. Not Mustangs, because they're mean.

They make good power.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, the most competitive that I've had, because I've only, I think I've only lost like two races in my car so far. Again, just lack of who I'm racing, I guess. C6 ZR1 is a real hard one to compete with. They're lighter. Their gearing is really good for a roll race. And they've got that fat power band, because they've got that big blower on it. So I think that's the closest competitor, I would say, to the C7.

But would you say that's like the king s*** of vets? Because I feel like a lot of the real, real fat ones.

C7 ZR1 is daddy.

Yeah.

Anybody that argues with that can argue with it all they want. They're arguing with the wall.

Why is C7 ZR1 daddy?

It's an ultimate car. It comes with a 2650 factory. It has port and direct injection. It has the most advanced suspension. It has the most advanced diff. I mean, it's a monster. I mean, literally bolt-ons only. In Puerto Rico, we went 9-0. Bolt-ons. This is like a stock car. It didn't even have a throttle body.

Sounds like a GT 500.

Yeah, but it actually did that multiple times.

Yeah.

Oh.

And how long did it take that?

What's that?

It took that quite a while for that to happen, didn't it?

Yeah, it did. I was waiting.

Yeah, we did that in 2020 with the 2019.

Oh, s***.

But anyways, here and there, the Mustangs are really good if you want to shove a bunch of boost to something and pray that you don't die every time you take it out. Because when they hook, they are monsters. But when they don't, they are deadly. I actually had a 2019 for a few months, and I hit a water puddle doing about 30, and the whole car went into a curb. Holy s***. It only hurt the wheel, but I was just like, this is really stupid. This thing is so unstable. And it may be normal for a lot of people, but in a Corvette, if I spin nine and a half times out of ten, I'm still going straight. I don't know what the difference is there, but the Mustang, every time it would spin, it wanted to go this way or that way.

Because it unloads. It doesn't have that transmission in the back. The weight distribution is just not as good. That Mustang hooks because it's throwing the weight back on the rear tire.

Yeah, they're pretty light back there otherwise, yeah.

And a lot of people are a lot more into gutting a Mustang than they will, you know, a $70,000 car.

Yeah.

So, which I get because the Camaro guys do it. But NA for NA, y'all all have s***. Y'all can't compete with a good Camaro at all.

Yeah.

I mean, which, you know, it shows the technology is there. If we could rev it out, and I'm surprised somebody hasn't like de-stroked a motor to do that. If they could rev it out, but I don't think we have the valve train to handle that. But the LT7, the LT7 is gonna f*** y'all over.

Yeah. That one is a pretty bad b****.

Yeah. I mean, we'll never be able to afford it. Maybe Ed, but not me.

Rich.

We have a friend of ours that has a Z28 with that in it, and it's a monster.

It's a rowdy car.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a cool car.

What's it got in it?

It's the LT7. That's the 427, right?

No, no, no. That's the LS7.

LS7?

LS7. Ooh, yeah.

I don't like that motor.

No?

Why don't you like the LS7?

Hold on.

You're hurting my feelings.

I just made everybody mad.

This one's going to be good because there's a lot.

Very problematic.

Let's be clearly into the mic on why you just like the LS7.

There was a time at my shop that I had five blown up LS7s in there that some stock, some modded. Rod issues, obviously the valve drop issue. There's people that think that they had the valve drop issue repaired and fixed with a new set of valves, and it happens anyway. I saw one that was an NA car with a camshaft. By the way, none of these we built, just to be clear. NA car, and it completely fractured the cylinder wall, just cracked and blew a big chunk of it out, not boosted.

So GM has a big issue with offset boring. So a lot of GM blocks, which you've seen this, I'm sure, if you look at the bore, the cylinder wall, right, this side will be this thick, this side will be that thick. And that's a major issue when you've got a four, you know, 125 piston in there, and it's zinging out some RPMs, and the cylinder wall tends to just fracture.

I would say done right. I've seen them done right. And, you know, we've put a few together that have been on the road for years, and like on a road course, you know, you can't get much better than that. The, you know, the power band is fantastic for an NA motor, but man, factory, you're just rolling the dice. You know, if you're looking to make 550 or 500 wheel horsepower, I would supercharge an LS3. It's just going to be more reliable.

But what does it take to make an LS7 to be done right?

Combination is everything.

Your engine builder's got to know what he's looking at?

A lot of engine builders try to build these 427s, and I don't want to say the name. So we had a customer, pretty well known guy, had somebody building an LS7, supposed to make big power, 700 plus. And I was like, hey, you know, how many has he done? Well, he hasn't done one. There's no proof of concept. I said, look, man, the combination on LS7s, I don't know the tricks. It wasn't my thing.

It's critical.

But I know that if you don't have the compression right, the heads right, everything, 100%, it won't make the power. And it didn't. It made south of that by a good margin. So it's a real niche thing, as well. An LS7 done right is an animal. Those cars are super light. The gearing is really good. A 0.1 Trans and a 0.6 worked really well. But the LS7 itself left a lot to be desired.

Yeah, if somebody came to us and they wanted an LS7 build, I would absolutely be on the phone with a few different people that I know that know how to build those successfully. Because like Justin said, it's a whole thing, and you've got to get it right.

Who's somebody would recommend to have an LS7 build then? Like who would you send them to? Right? Anybody come to mind? Outside of yourself, Ryan.

The person that I would use doesn't deal with the general public. It's not someone that they can...

Those are the best guys, by the way.

So you is the answer to that question.

Right. I would facilitate the build.

Yeah.

That's usually how it is.

There's an old guy that I know that was literally in the development of that engine and just knows it up and down. We haven't had extensive conversations because I just don't really see that... My customer base doesn't necessarily want to go that route, but when we have done LS7s in the past, it's an old guy, it takes him forever, everybody's going to be mad at the end of it, but it's going to be right, and it's going to do all of the things.

Well, some of the best shops that we've had on... Some people we've had on this podcast, right? They don't even have their address, they don't give out their number, like it's referral only.

Correct.

Because it's like a one-guy shop, they'll take their time, and they just want to make sure it's done right, and they're going to do it on their terms. So I totally get that too. We see that a lot.

That's a big thing in this industry that a lot of people... Like we had talked on the Cavalier episode, people don't realize what it costs to build a car. The other thing is people always want to rush the builder, which is super insane, because you want this guy to do the best he can possibly do, and some people take a little bit longer than normal, I guess, but typically it's because they want that to be dead on, they want it to be money, and when you rush somebody through that, they're like, oh, I got a locked in race. As soon as somebody tells me that, you can just go somewhere else.

Yeah, if you know you're at a good engine builder, when if you start pushing on them, but to say, look, this isn't going to work out, come and get all your stuff, I'm done.

Because they want what's best.

They just want to do it right.

And a lot of builders are like that, but people rush them and rush them and rush them and rush them until people like me, I wanted to build cars for people because of how bad I see people are getting taken advantage of. And I've had some customer cars for quite a while that took very long time, but once they're done, I make sure I put everything in it, and it's right. I was grateful enough to have customers that would let me do that, but most customers wouldn't, and I just couldn't do it. So if I can't do the best I can possibly do, I don't want to do it.

What's your name on the line? Some guys don't mind it, they'll kick out cars all day long, and they'll make a buck, but when you're trying to build a reputation and be the guy, there's a lot riding on it.

Justin and I were talking about that literally on the way over here. In my opinion, the only way to be really successful with a performance shop is either producing parts, which is probably the best route, or jamming a shop full of 10 technicians and 20 or 30 bays. With that increased volume, a lot of the quality and everything goes out the window, you have that many more unsatisfied customers who have unrealistic demands, etc. So, yeah.

It's just a lot of risk to take.

Unless half of those guys are just doing oil changes and alignments and, you know, alternators and s*** like that.

Right, but we're talking a performance shop.

Yeah, I don't want to be a repair shop. I just don't.

I know. We know some, though, that do both just so that they can have that, because people think that there's s*** tons of money, and there's not at all.

When I first started, we started with alternators, started with batteries, stuff like that. And then I would tune some cars and build a car every now and then. And then when I went to my performance shop, we still had that division that paid for the performance stuff. Because a lot of people think that we make all this money building cars, and no, you don't. Not if you're actually fair and reasonable with everybody. You don't make enough for it to be really worth it. We do it more because we want to see something really b*****, and we don't trust anybody else to do it. So...

What's a common mistake you see, right? Because sometimes I'll see wrong combinations or hear about wrong combinations, especially in like the C701. I can't remember. I'm not going to name the shop, but I've seen interesting results, to say the least. Is there anything in particular that just kind of is like, oh, I wouldn't do it that way, or that you would recommend somebody gets fixed?

In what platform in particular? Because that's a big deal too. Like a lot of the DI stuff, I see a lot of people running the bigger injectors and the bigger pump and all that. And everybody has their opinion, right? But a 30% injector that can't run over 2,100 PSI versus a stock injector that can run at 3,200, arguably that stock injector is putting out more fuel. So you just spent $4,000 on a set of injectors that, again, arguably, didn't really do anything for you. I'm a big proponent in more DI means more power, and that's 100%. But basically getting to those bigger injectors, like 60% overs, they're like, oh, well, you need to cut your rail pressure down in half. Well, what do you think a DI injector looks like that was running at 900 PSI at idle and is now at 150, 200? I mean, it can't be a good efficient spray pattern at all. So I guess in my mind, in terms of efficiency, I don't think that's the way to go. Port injection has gotten far too cheap, far too available to not utilize it. So I see a lot of people limit their selves without going port, where $2,500, you could have a full port set up from 200 PSI and be ready to go and make whatever you want. So fueling is the biggest mistake, I think.

Yeah, well, we had Sam on from Nostrum, and we discussed that. That's one of the things. When you're in a car, you want to overbuild it a little bit, right? If you have a 1,200 horsepower car, you want it to be built for 16, 18, right? You want to have some buffer there. Injectors was that part where he's like, okay, this isn't where we want to overshoot here. You want it for your build. If you're going to upgrade, you upgrade the injector again later.

Yeah, bigger on the injector is better when you can still control it properly and get it proper. People don't really think about spray pattern and location and things like that. That's all critical. Yeah, I mean, I watched I watched Brian Tully doing some testing on the LS7 because he's got some pretty sick LS7 combinations. And then he was like, you know, our injector angle is wrong. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like it's the same injector angle everybody's used. And he tweaked the injector angle a little bit, picked up a bunch of power.

That's huge.

All these little things. And that's what I respect about him is like all these little things. If people would actually test some stuff. But again, everybody's rushing to try to make a buck and they don't have time or they don't make time to learn any of this. So they just do what they've done that has had success. And that's not always the way.

Well, Sammion brought it up on our episode. We were talking about Mercedes and particularly the four banger one. Like how they were able to just tweak like their injector set up. And they just were able to make the power that it does right out of a little four banger. It's the highest horsepower four cylinder that you can get stock or whatever. And it's like they were able to do that while doing all their like EPA stuff and all that. Just all because of injector angle and how it goes in and all that.

I noticed they got in to the GM market, but they only did like a 12% over. But Nostrum was real big. They're big in the Lambos, I believe.

Yeah.

So they make a lot of good big injectors that run a bunch of power there. So that's right. Yeah.

AMS.

It seems like they go a different way about it instead of just drilling out the factory injector, which I don't care what they say, that's what the other guys are doing.

But he said that he said they're just buying Bosch injectors. And yeah, and they run like s***.

They idle like s***. People are like, oh, they idle fine. So and so tuned it. It was great. And I'm like, yeah, look at your fuel trims. And they're off 30 percent. Yeah, the O2 is fixed that. But like, it's still wrong. It's still not right. If anything happens, you have no window for it to adjust and fix it. So you just start running lean or really rich or either way, not efficient. Yeah. So I was really hopeful that Nostrum was going to bring their expertise from that market, maybe, and help us. I just don't. I haven't seen a DI injector that I think is there. But if they do, I mean, the power is only going to be that much better.

How far can you get on the stock one?

$850-ish. Well, that's with meth, huh?

Yeah, lots of meth.

Yeah.

We've done that, yeah. And there's different theories on that. But I've been pretty comfortable with meth. I don't want to say anything out loud, but so far, so good.

Methanol. Methanol injection.

I was going to ask for your thoughts on that.

Yeah, right. Yeah, the other meth is bad. I've seen a lot of bad results. Just the dental side alone is bad. But on this side of things, it's all good. Yeah, no.

What are your thoughts on them? Like, you know me. So, I stick with Alky Control only because I've known him forever. I can call him, customer services there, and I say, hey, man, I've got this. I want to try this, this, and this. And he's like, all right, this is what you need. And typically, he's right. Almost every time he's right. If you set it up right and you do everything right, it can be very successful. But most people, like, people don't understand wiring is the fueling. I thought was the worst thing. Yeah, wiring.

Yeah.

People don't understand that what goes in must come out. What goes one way has to go the other way. So, you know, they'll put like these big hot wire and then do like a 20 gauge ground.

And, you know, that's a conversation you have with a customer. And you got to kind of know as a shop whether that person's capable of testing before they do hit. You know, knowing what they're doing. And Delgado talked, I mean, his take on that is pretty cool.

He goes way into it. He goes way into it because he's looking at like temperature of it, the flow rate of it, what is going on with everything else in the engine to utilize it. You know, spark modifiers, time modifiers, fuel, it's insane. Meth done right works great. Unfortunately, another thing I've noticed, sorry to keep going on it, nobody ever checks the pressure. So think about the injector thing, right? Well, meth nozzle doesn't spray very well under 65 PSI. So you see guys that do like three nozzles.

Doesn't work.

The pump doesn't flow enough for that. So you put three nozzles and you put out less than you would have with two. Less cooling. You have more volume. And okay, maybe if that's what you want. But you don't get that cooling aspect because you're just dribbling it in. If you actually put a test rig on it, you would know you're way under. So I would just do two nozzles and crank the pump up a little more and make sure that you're 85 and up.

Once you're out of two nozzles, in my opinion, now there are some shops out there that do their own kind of standalone meth injection systems. And I think as long as you're using the Alky control, other parts and pieces, if you're putting it into a... On a port car, it's a little easier. On a PD car, it's a little easier. I've seen people put spray bars and things in those. And I've never done any of that. I think once you're at that point, you're probably relying on it a little bit too much, and it's time to step up in some other areas. But before we had the port injection set up so readily available, we were somewhat limited. There was a time when the 65 overs with the secondary pump and all that stuff was kind of the only way to go that was known to work, at least somewhat.

Yeah, because port was what? Six, seven grand?

Yeah, it was six, seven grand. It was run off of Holley, I think, initially. I think what was at Crawford had a set up, and it was just a lot of money. But the DI stuff was a lot of money as well. But anyway, we tried that three nozzle deal on a 65 over with a secondary DI pump, and we tested three nozzles, man, and it just wasn't hanging in there. We had to pull the blower up. It was just out of fuel.

Yeah. I think if you pass two nozzles, like, give it up, do some fueling. Do something else. But I've seen, I've had a lot of cars. I wait to tune that. I'm like, man, the fuel keeps changing. And it's just like they had a butt connector on the main power wire, and it was going in and out. But this is stuff that like big name shops do. And it could be better, but I think the problem is people are rushing them. They're trying to get stuff done. They're hiring more technicians. They're not able to quality control as well. That's part of why I just can't do a shop, because I just don't trust people that much. And I've worked very, very hard to get where I'm at now, to be relevant and to be known for trying to do things the right way. That just is not worth the risk for me.

How long should, let's say, I brought you a stock vet, and I want a thousand horsepower. What should that look like for a time line on a build?

I mean, a lot of shops can knock that out in a couple weeks. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was a couple of months. And I mean, again, arguably, if they took four, five, six months, I would be more willing to bet that that car is going to make that thousand horsepower for many years to come. Where the other guy might have got it out quicker, but he might have not torqued that bolt. He might have missed something. I mean, I've seen, I've literally seen an over tightened head stud, and it just pulled right out just because somebody was in a rush. I mean, stuff like that happens when you try to get them out quick. The big thing that I think a lot of people aren't thinking about, and this is something big for me because I've actually lost customers before, from Rex or things like that, is you got to know your customer, what you're building for. So a lot of these cars, I'll spend the extra time, hey, let's do this, this, and this, because I mean, you make a mistake like running a fuel line too close to a header, or anything like that, you can kill somebody. And 1,000 horsepower car is, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, it's just 1,000 horsepower, but like, dude, that car gets a little loose. Like, you better know what you're doing. You better have everything right. And I think the guys that are taking their time, I think they get a lot of heat for it, but they shouldn't. Let the people take their time, let them do what they're supposed to do, because at the end, they're trying to give you something safe and reliable. Safish, reliably.

And that's something, you know, that's another subject altogether we can probably hit on later about.

What, safety?

Performance and reliable in the same.

Yeah, there's like a curve, right? Where they start to think one goes one way, one goes the other.

Sometimes that curve is a lot lower than you'd think.

Yeah.

Yeah. Just mass production, you know, American made vehicles, you know what I'm just saying?

And reliable in what sense either?

Right. How are you treating your car? What's your oil temperature when you do a pull? How many tests are you doing? Are you constantly logging your stuff to make sure that everything's healthy? As soon as none of those things are done, it's all of a sudden the tuner's fault or the shop's fault.

I've been sitting on my parts for my GT500 for about a year, because I know once I take that route, it's a whole other ball game. I can't just roll up to any pump. I can't do anything. Right now, it just works all the time. So yeah, I've been dragging my feet for that reason.

Yeah, I think that that's why Justin and I have been talking about getting into the podcast space, and it's to push that information out. You know, there's the new customer that just wants... Their buddies make 1,000 horsepower, and that's what they want, but they have no idea what it takes to maintain a car that makes four digits, even makes 700 horsepower, that used to make three. You know, that's a big deal. And there's... You can't just get, like you said, any gas station? No, you can't do that. Any, you know, start it up and pull down your street? You can't do that anymore. Can't do it.

But you can't go 100,000 miles on spark plugs. Oh yeah.

Wait a second, you can?

Like, but that's a big thing. Like, I change my spark plugs every three nights I go out. I'll change my plugs, I'll change the oil. Like, well, the oil has only got, you know, a thousand miles. I don't care. Do you know what I just did to that motor?

That's what I was about to say.

Like, anything that might have come loose, I'd like it out of there. You don't want it to be abrasive. That's something people don't factor in. Also, starting these cars up, they'll start it, pull it out in the driveway, wash it. Start it, put it back in. Like, you know how much water you just left in that oil and now mixed it in? A lot of things like that. You gotta let these cars warm up. They're not just... They can be reliable if the maintenance is done. Again, my car is an example for the customers. You can have that car, and it makes $1280 right now. You could have that car, reliably drive it. I can go get in that car right now, drive it back up here, no problem. But I'll change the oil when I get here, and I'll probably put a set of plugs in it just in case. I overly maintenance everything, and I think if customers got used to that, it's not expensive. I mean, a set of plugs in oil is what? $152, $200? $152, $200 to save a motor. To save the instance of a motor blowing and you wrecking because the oil hit your tire.

Cheap insurance.

That's what I'm saying. But people are not used to that because it's these new age customers, these younger kids.

I'll get guys that'll say, man, those plugs that you pulled out last time look really good, can we just put those back in next time? That's like, no man, you can't do that.

My stepdad pulled out this thing. It's like a canvas sack, and you stick the spark plug in it, and you put air in it. I remember that.

What is that?

He goes, it works fine. I'm like, yeah.

On an 89 Chevy pickup truck, he is absolutely correct.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll take that bad boy right to the wire wheel, clean it up, slam it back in there, no problem.

But when you're in a modern car that is running, you know, that kind of power, you probably shouldn't do that.

When you got a $30,000 engine, even if it's just an OE engine and it's, you know, whatever, it's however much, I mean, really, how much is that to replace?

I mean, a stock engine is what, $15,000 now usually?

Yeah.

That's what people don't realize. Like they're like, oh man, $30,000 for a motor. I can buy these rods. Dude, by the time it's done and done right, absolutely. You've got $30,000 and a good motor. Not me, but most people.

We're not talking junkyard LS truck motors anymore, right? Like that's kind of that's that's not a thing anymore.

Is it?

Yeah, is it?

You know, these no prep guys love that stuff.

They love the 5.3, especially the aluminum one, because the sleeve is that fit.

And if you got a tube front end on your car, it's super easy to get them in and out as well. I'd be terrified to crack it in half and put oil all over the place myself. But I know a lot of guys that do that. And the combo there, again, if someone came to me that wanted that done to their car, I wouldn't do it. But I know people I could send them to. Again, probably nobody I can mention. It's like people that build that stuff out of their garage. But they have wicked sick, no prep cars, and they know the combo.

I was just having a conversation with James Short on Facebook, and he's talking about the LT53. And he's like, yeah, man, I've had them well into the four digits stock. And I'm like, what? It's how you utilize it. He's like, yeah, well, I don't really put any power under 6,500. But he also revs that thing out to like 8 grand, 9 grand. S***. A lot of why the coyotes live is RPM. If you listen to Brett LaSalle, you know, he's like, man, if I can rev that thing to 10,000 all day, he said, but the minute that I short shift it is done for. Yeah. So that's a lot of thing that a lot of people don't realize. And I spoke to Jay Meager. He, was it, and what's his new shop?

I'm blanking on a name right now too.

Yeah. Well, he's got a new shop, but he's been around this forever. And he touched on Powerglide vs Turbo 400. Because I've always thought Powerglide was the way to go, right? It's two gears. But I never really factored in that that gearing is so inefficient, that you're dragging through the danger zone. Peak torque is your danger zone. If you live in peak torque, you will not live very long. But the gearing of the Powerglide would keep you in that zone for so long that you would hurt parts long before a Turbo 400, which you had a little more gearing. So with these 10 speeds, just think about it, there's no issue with that anymore. You've got so many gears, you're always in the optimum range. So we're able to push these platforms way further than they should ever be going.

So.

What are you most excited for? Like, what's currently hitting the market?

EV stuff is what he's excited about.

Say what they want. I think the, I think hybrid is going to be the future. I think it's going to be huge. And I'm excited for it.

Yeah, hybrid school.

I'm a proponent of anything fast. If it's fast, like I said, I respect Mustangs. I would never drive one outside of the one I do own. But it's just not my cup of tea. I've had it. I just don't like how the car feels. But I do own two Teslas. And people, it's funny because people want to talk s***. But I do have 3,000 to 2,000 horsepower cars. So you can say whatever you want. But the big thing that we've talked about this before, a lot of people are like, oh, man, you know, you brought that Tesla over your C7. You're thinking about this wrong. I got the Tesla instead of a Corolla. That car was my Model 3 was 30 grand. It was basically a brand new car, 2023. What can you get for 30 grand that's reliable, that I can trust my wife to get anywhere she needs to go and not have to maintain maintenance?

Well, let me tell you about a brand called Volkswagen.

30 grand new?

New or is it?

40, 50. The closest I found was a Toyota Yaris. So yes, I'll take my Model 3 over Toyota Yaris.

How much it was new?

Yeah.

Railroad drive?

Essentially new, yeah, railroad drive.

Okay, and I keep forgetting that you guys only have to worry. Well, you're up here with us, but you don't have to worry about that down in Houston. You don't have to worry about front wheel or all wheel drive.

Well, and I do have a Model X Plaid as well.

Okay.

But again, it's not my race vehicle.

Yeah, those are fun, by the way.

Yes, it makes 1,000 horsepower, and I'll get my race vehicle at a stoplight. It just, it will. And it's an SUV. It's really cool. But again, I didn't get it to replace a race car. I got it to replace a suburban or an Escalade or something I would normally have, which...

Yeah, and that all makes sense. But really, if Justin gives me any reason to make fun of him, if my brother drives a Tesla as well, I make fun of him every chance I get. Because it's such an easy subject.

But I'm all for it. That's okay.

What's like GM and Ford guys and me being a Mopar guy? Just the clowning is nonstop.

No. And being from Houston, driving a Tesla.

But there's a very real hatred for people that have Teslas.

It depends on the person.

If we were all at the track hugging and kissing each other, that wouldn't be funny either.

Right.

Like when we went to do a roll race, Wendy went to race.

What was it?

She was racing some BMW, and she beat it, and the whole stands, they were just like pissed.

Love it.

They did not like it at all.

Big mad. I love big mad.

Yeah. But people out here in the States, a lot of people like the Kium and for what? I didn't buy that s*** for the save the environment. That is not my intention. I mean, sure, maybe you should, but like...

You're not offsetting your carbon footprint by any means.

Absolutely not. And not in the plaid, dude. We beat the dog s*** out of that thing.

Yeah.

You know, it's a 300 mile range. She might get 150. But so arguably, it's definitely worse.

Yeah.

But she doesn't have to go find premium fuel. You know, this is a thousand horsepower SUV that we can drive anywhere. We don't need premium anything. It's fully charged every day when we go. You know, I'm not saying you have to go buy a Tesla or anything like that. I live on an island, right? It's 300 miles across.

Yeah.

In the middle in Houston, it would probably be a little rougher because I would be sitting at the charger. You know?

Yeah.

But where I live, it works and I like it. And it works for a lot of people. So but the anybody can argue whatever they want. But let me look at what the E-Razor doing.

Yeah.

That's what I literally I was just thinking about that a second ago. The E-Razor. Have you been doing anything with those yet?

Not yet. But we're working on getting one.

What's the game plan there?

Honestly, try to control the motors themselves, because a lot of people aren't they're not doing that because you can't access it right now.

Yeah, I think Sysio just did a E-Ray recently, right? Or somebody to twin turbo E-Ray or something.

I feel like I feel like that transmission. Yeah, the way GM does things in the computer. It's crazy that you can tune the engine and it still works. If you're familiar with the NSX, you couldn't mod it because if you modded the engine, the hybrid wouldn't work.

Yeah, it goes in like a limp mode or something. I had a friend try to do something like that.

Well, the E-Ray doesn't do that. So, how do you argue with a car that is now all-wheel drive? So, America already worked really well in rear wheel drive. If they can get that transmission figured out, the C8 is a game changer. Until they get the trans figured out, I mean...

Or if you can actually apply more power to the electric motors so that way you're not relying as much on that transmission, that's another deal.

I'm curious to see what happens in the modding space with the hybrid motors because, for example, I was looking into the new Temurario, right? It has motors that are way more capable than a 296 Ferrari, right? But the battery is a third of the size, so that's the only restriction it has. But if they were just sticking a battery that's three times bigger, I think it would be capable of like 15 or 1600 horse.

I bet you five years from now, that's going to be a thing.

Yeah.

Well, they already make a kit, like a C-10 truck. You can buy the cradle, the motor, everything out of a Model X, and they make a kit to bolt it into a C-10.

But a more efficient, lighter weight battery is coming. It's just, I don't know, I'm not up on that technology, but I read some things here and there.

I think we're getting-

That's who I should find while I'm out here. There's a company out here that I saw at SEMA. They literally make these battery kits, they throw them up into cars. They're based out of Utah. I'm going to find what the name was. I should find them because they literally do exactly what you're describing.

Yeah, I think we're getting there. Again, I would never go to an EV drag race. That would be the most boring s*** in the world.

I bet everybody else would love it. It would be the quietest thing.

But would I still build one just for fun?

Yeah.

But I think the hybrid is where it's at. I think because electric has its drawback, and gas has its drawback. But together, they work so well.

It also depends on application, right? Like I just watched the Engineering Explained video about why hybrids are harder on your motor, because it never allows to get up to operating temp and all these things.

Depends on the hybrid application, though.

Exactly.

So a lot of the hybrids that they keep turning the engine off. So in a performance car, you're not doing that.

Yeah. Or like a Prius is just going to sit at an RPM forever, which you can make a motor that will live doing that.

But if you see the Edison trucks?

No.

You haven't seen that?

No.

So Edison's whole thing is stealing Tesla's ideas.

Okay.

Always has been, right?

That's what it says. Yeah. But anyways, what he's doing is he's getting these big ol logging trucks, and he leaves the cat motor or whatever is in there, and it powers a generator, and that powers the live axles, the electric axles. But I mean, think about it in this aspect, he's running on diesel, but it's sitting at one RPM the whole time in its most efficient zone. And now you have all the torque for hauling the... because they do logging. So you're...

It's like a locomotive from the 1950s. That's exactly what it did.

Exactly. Yeah. This has been around forever.

Correct.

But people, they're like, oh, that's stupid. So the new Dodge Ram, the new Dodge Ram, same thing. It's got a Pentastar V6. It works, powering a generator to power the axles. Now you've got a truck that can do better than another truck. It's better than a gas truck. Let's not say diesel, but it's better than a gas truck, maybe better than a diesel, because you've got that perfect torque range, perfect power range. Electric is infinitely adjustable, right? So if you're looking for traction mapping, I mean, I can run a 270 to 60 in the rain, in a Model X, in the rain. But it's because they have real torque vectoring, because there's a motor here, a motor here, and a motor here. But so this hybrid application, Edison, they're doing it with these trucks, and it's just the cat motor running. It's way better on fuel efficiency, right? There's no, you can tune that engine so precisely that it is efficient, right? And that it can meet environmental standards, but also charging something to power the axles. But if you can implement that in the car, you get the best of both worlds.

It's got a one-line VE table.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and then running at that, like that, that'll run literally forever.

Yeah.

At that RPM.

And then you don't have to really worry so much about these guys.

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Yeah, no, that seems to be a common thing, too, even. We had Simon on last night on a podcast. He's got two Teslas, and literally the same thing you're saying. He's like, hybrid is where it's going to be. Even in motorsports, he's saying that on the track, you're going to see that coming up way more often, so.

Yeah. Well, I've got an RC car, and it's got seven stages of power management. And these things are insanely fast. You don't go get a, you're not going to go get a, I hate to say this, you're not going to get a little nitro car and beat it.

Right.

Right. Like the electric one's faster. But yeah, this whole like no soul thing gets me, because like, the f*** does that mean?

Justin, you know what I didn't point out to you yesterday? But one of the guys in our booth in the African American Automotive Association booth is a guy named Rich Rebuilds. Are you familiar with that guy?

Yes, I follow all his stuff.

He was there yesterday. And you didn't introduce me. I didn't. He's going to be there again today. He's also going to be at the Detroit International Auto Show, and he wants to come check our shop out and stuff. Like, if you can make it in for that, I think it's January-ish.

Hey, my birthday.

Whatever. What are you 10 years old?

What's the PO box? What are we sending to you?

He's the other one that, you know, if you think about Rich Rebuilds guy, I love his videos.

So smart.

Mostly because he's funny as s***.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's kind of offensive, and I love it.

Yeah.

But he does the same thing. He started a Tesla channel. He owns Electrified Garage. But he has, he had a Z06. He, you know, they can work together.

Yep.

You know, you're not, if you replace your Corvette with a Tesla, I will call you weird.

Yeah.

Right? You got to kind of have both. But a lot of people have this argument of the no-soul thing. Like, the f***'s soul does my car have? It's just really loud and obnoxious.

It's a base model Corvette, for Christ's sake.

Watch it. But I don't know. Like, I don't get into that whole thing. Like, yeah, it's not a race car. It doesn't have the thunder and all that. But in the rain, I'll f*** you up.

Yeah.

It's got its own aspects. It's cool. And I think it's kind of funny for me to speak on it because, you know, it's really kind of hard to argue with the guy that does race cars. Right?

Right.

If I like it, too, maybe it's okay to be a little weird, you know?

I've been scared to drive one just because I'm afraid I might like it.

You will.

Yeah, I know.

We actually had one. We came into, was it not this past March, the year before when they unveiled the 170 or was it March 2023? Anyway, we were in Vegas for that event and we rented a Model 3, and we had five people in it. I won't say what company we rented it from, but I jumped that car twice. You know, some of these roads out here have that kind of like dip before because they don't really have a sewer system or whatever. And we launched it like 70 miles an hour, got completely off of the ground, and then turned around and did it at 100. And build quality, I don't know about the rest of the interior, but the suspension and whatnot held up fantastically. But literally, going back and forth, driving that car, even with five people in it, it was fun. You know, it pulls right through anything. You can drive like a complete idiot. It's a lot of fun. I'm not gonna argue with that. I'm not gonna buy one.

It's the most American car out there.

Yeah, there's that too, right?

People hate that. Yeah, I mean, it is. It's helping Americans. How do you argue with that?

Yeah, remember that other car company that came about that is doing the numbers and volume that that one is recently? And it's just, there's none. There are a lot of startups. There are a lot of new car companies, for sure, but nothing is doing what Tesla is doing. And again, I have mixed feelings on the EV stuff in general and people that argue it's better for the environment. I would argue against that completely. I don't believe that at all. I believe that, you know, I think the other argument that backs that up is that, hey, we gotta make a change somehow. And, you know, to be honest with you, I think that there are other areas that are polluting the earth a whole lot worse than even just, you know, cars that we drive daily. But anyway, that's controversial and it is what it is.

We had this whole conversation on the plane yesterday. There was a, I don't know how much I want to disclose, but the guy is in an education space, and he's educating me on the fact of power plants. New power plants are supposed to be at 80% efficiency compared to 100% like they used to be. And then that 20% leftover is basically being powered by windmills, but if those windmills fail, they're powered by diesel generators or something like that. So it's arguably worse.

It makes people feel better.

The waste from windmills alone.

I'm glad that's starting to get a little bit of traction too.

It's so bad. And have you ever seen one fail?

Oh, I think I've seen those. They just like blow apart.

Big fireballs. But these windmills fail a lot. I actually tuned a car for a guy that works on windmills, and he's like, dude, they mostly don't work. Because those blades, they're like 200 feet long.

It's like a Ford mechanic, I guess. I mean, right?

Well, they're busy.

You always have work.

But the problem is when the windmills stop working, they take them to a landfill. And if you actually look it up, look up windmills and landfills. I mean, it's bad. It's such a bad problem, and they're so inefficient. The offshore windmills, I think, are really good, except they're hard to work on.

The ones that kill whales. Well, so seriously, the frequencies that they put out, the frequencies they put out, you know, I don't think they can... It messes with the ecosystem in general. I don't know enough of...

It beaches whales. It really does.

It freaks them out. Yeah, it freaks out sea life, for sure. Like, it's a thing, but...

It's like me on Fremont Street. I start freaking the f*** out.

Right.

The frequency is just...

Yeah, yep. The frequency of hookers walking by is high.

We are big.

There was none last night. Yeah, it was too cold. Except for Nick.

Did they take...

Nick was the only hooker out there.

Yeah, Nick is a hooker. Motom Fab Speed, shout out, Nick. You're a hooker.

Well, he was trying to hook too.

Oh, yeah?

You were competing? Were you guys on different corners, I hope?

I was just trying to make more money than he was.

As weird as it sounds, I did win a sword fight last night. Really?

Yeah, you did.

You did?

I did.

I was going to buy that bike for Matt.

With swords.

Oh, okay.

Not glizzies?

Yeah. Well, first he just grabbed it out of the guy's hand, and then he ran away.

But he came out with another one.

He did, yes.

And we dueled.

I don't understand how this happened.

All right. I don't understand what's going on.

You guys shouldn't have gotten to bed at 8 o'clock, right?

No, you need to finish the story. What happened with swords? What's going on?

So this guy had this big, you know, the retractable swords? Like a plastic sword? And he was like waving it out.

Lightsabers, like the plastic from Target.

Yes, that's the important part.

But he was holding it like he wanted me to grab it.

Or maybe he had a sign that said, won a sword fight or something. Did he? Yes, yes.

I couldn't read that. So I grabbed the sword, and then he whipped out another sword. So we sword fought, and then I jigged him, and he was like, and I was like, that was really good.

Yeah, and then you were supposed to tip him.

I need to see the security footage of this.

That's weird.

If anybody finds that video.

Houston Public School.

I need to see what that looks like. He'd probably let me win.

Well, if you live in a state where everything's beige... Sorry, moving along.

Oh, yeah, it's okay. Sorry I'm gonna miss. He's offended.

So I'm not gonna just make fun of his electric car. I'm gonna make fun of where he lives now, where he's from, where he was born, all that stuff. That's what we do.

So what do you prefer more? You prefer supercharging stuff or turbos, or what are you thinking?

Depends.

It's application.

Application. So you're able to do both just as efficiently then?

No.

Application.

Application. So I like the supercharger stuff for most people. It's cheap, it's effective, it works, it's great.

Doesn't throw belts.

But it takes 200 horsepower to run that blower. So to make 1100, I'm having to make 12, 1300 just to run the blower to make the 11. I just recently did a twin-turbo corvette that's essentially stock with a cam. I set a 62-millimeter turbo as it made 1294. I mean, we ran the half-mile for two days straight. It did 194 mile an hour and a half. It's a blue car. What's his? Two Snails Z06 on Instagram. But I mean, this is essentially stock trans, stock everything. Good Lord. They did a cam and some ARP head bolts and bolted on some 62-millimeter turbos was a performance supercar built the turbo kit. And when we ran out there, we were only, I think we only made like 19 PSI because they had seven pound springs in, but the car did 194. Doing that 194 in a supercharged car is not, I mean, we've gone 202 in Puerto Rico with them, but it was a lot to get that to work. With the turbos, it was way easier. But with turbos becomes complication. Mostly people not installing things right. But they're like, oh, I love these push locks. Yeah, well, that's for air brakes. It's not made to be in a hot engine bay, that melts. But people like it, and they still do it because they don't listen. That's a big thing, man. You pop hoods out here, I guarantee you half the turbocores out here have push locks. That's not what that's made for. And yes, there's better hose that will sustain. And it may work, but why wouldn't you just put an A-in line on it, or put some regular silicone hose that doesn't melt?

We were talking a little bit about that last night. I have my, basically, my daily right now is a C6 Z06. I bought it because the LS7 blew up for the previous owner. Anyway.

He also has a G8.

I'll get to that in a minute.

Does it still have an LS7 in it?

No, it has an LS9 in it now. So it's a ported blower LS9 with a camshaft. And the immediate, like the immediate power, it's so much fun to drive, especially in a manual. On the street, it's just, it's a lot of fun. I have a G8 as well that's a 402 inch LS with an 80 millimeter turbo. And the power on those two cars are completely different the way they put it down. How big did you say the turbo was? 80 mil. Okay. Yeah, it's a forced induction with a billet wheel and whatever, you know, makes a little over a thousand on a bunch of boost. But you know, the car, in full weight, it's not a fast car, it's not going to set any records, but the driving experience is so cool. It's completely different, but it's so cool. So like, you know, they both feel different, they both do things differently. I think there's, like Justin was saying, it's an application. If somebody wants to make all of the power, all of the power, turbos are the way to go. They just are. But if you're looking to, I'd make an argument for the role racing, being able to do all of, if you want to do all of the things, positive displacement blower is like hard to beat. It just is. As far as like maintenance, if I have people that don't want to have to, you know, we don't do a lot of pro-charge stuff. I love pro-chargers. I really do, they make really cool power. But you know, the positive displacement stuff, the belt routing, the maintenance, it's just, it's simple. The packaging.

What are your thoughts on like the ESS stuff coming?

That's, you know, that's coming up a lot more. I've never, the only ESS stuff I've ever played with was an M3 years ago.

That's kind of where it came from, right? Like the Euro market?

Correct, and they really work, but I've seen some videos of some S550 Mustangs.

The orange one, our buddy Mike.

I mean, you can't argue with that fact, it works. You know, I like the positive displacement stuff on the Coyote motors, just because they lack torque, you know, in the middle, and the positive displacement stuff makes torque. So I think I like that from, you know, a kind of a driver, street car, fun car aspect. But, you know, at the same time, look at how well they do, what those cars do with turbos. And so therefore, a centrifugal is going to kind of be a little bit of a no-brainer.

Well, when you road course a car, it's nice to have that punch out of the turn, right? And that's when, that's what I mostly use the car for. So that's that instant muscle right out on the gate, as soon as you mash that pedal.

And turbos in a centrifugal would not do that.

Yeah.

So application back to the statement.

What I like about turbos is, so I do a lot of road rally stuff, right? So sometimes I'm getting questionable gas. With a turbo or turbos, you can basically dial a boost, right? So if I need it all the way down to three, four PSI is that.

Which also brings in the habit of people don't ever want to stop hitting that up button.

Yeah.

So self-control is a big thing.

That's the problem with my turbo car. My G8 is down often because I just lost this one, but we're going to line it up again and I can turn it on.

I won't have that problem. Anybody who's had to rebuild a motor, will you go ahead and tell me where to stop on that? You tell me as my tuner, I will f****** stop there because it hurts when you blow something up.

But then you're in the middle of it, and I like to actually talk to my customers about that, and I liken it to an experience potentially with an attractive person of the opposite sex. And it's like before the whole thing, your mind works perfectly, and you're like, I'll never do that, but then you're like there, and you're like, just the tip, I'm sorry.

The other brain takes over. Yeah, 100%.

The caveman.

I can't be responsible for what he does at all.

No.

Well, it's the brain stem in there, but same thing.

Yeah, they're connected. That's where you start measuring.

Yes.

It's trying to figure out, and trying to trust somebody to figure that out, right? So my wife's car, she's got a CTSV, and it makes 1,400 wheel, and it's a stock LSA block with rods and pistons, stock heads with head studs. And people are like, oh, four bolts per cylinder won't hold. That thing's got 36,000 miles on it.

Wow. Holy s***.

Yeah, I know. That motor was never supposed to make it, but through 2K, and then we were going to take it out. And, but it's combination. I did a lot of research putting that together.

Who's your tuner on that?

Oh, I'm not squeezing that.

So, okay, explain why that's lived as long as it has.

Because I don't put the power where it doesn't need to be.

Peak torque.

All the power's up top.

Stay away from peak torque.

Like she, we don't really start making big power with that car till about 5, 5,500 rpm. But, I mean, this is 1,400 wheel and a 4,600 pound car. That's full weight, everything. Car's been 351, 60 to 130. Like, it works, but it's because I've blown enough of my own stuff up to know that you need to start the party here. And a lot of people, it's hard to get that. But the other issue is turbos. I made the mistake of oversizing the turbos, which worked in my favor, because had I had 62s on it, I would have probably tried to push the power earlier, because it's a heavy car, and it wouldn't have lived. But a lot of people don't realize that. And I actually learned that from the Coyote guys. I'm watching Coyotes go sevens on some 64s. And I hit up a buddy, Aldo Welds, and I'm like, dude, what is up with these turbos? He's like, well, if you actually use them efficiently, so when I efficiently sized up what I needed for her motor to make 1,400, because it's just a good number for her car, it works. It was only like a 62 or 64-millimeter turbo. That's all we needed. We had 68 or 69s on it. So that helped me, but it's all combination stuff.

And it leads back to something that we covered a little earlier. And basically, I started changing my business model. It kind of always was this way, but started actually putting words to it. When we talked about R&D, and we talked about combinations, and we talked about running a shop, running a shop, ordering parts, tracking things down, staying in touch with a customer, all of those things are time-consuming. And that's why I've gotten some complaints, or even probably lost customers because of the fact that we don't have in-house tuning. Could I tune a car? I've done it. Does it take me two months? And then my own stuff, of course, never a customer car ever, because I'm not a tuner. But this guy lives, breathes, has seen issues, talks to people. I don't have time for all that stuff. I'm ordering parts and tracking things down and dealing with employees and all those things. And on top of that, even on the other platforms, the reason we were able to get into the GT500 things, the Twin Turbo Coyote things, the Hellcat world was because there are resources out there, and these guys are on it. And back to the tuning philosophies, I know that there are a few Ford platform tuners that I would deal with. We talked a little bit about it previously. On the Hellcat side, from what I understand, as long as you can copy somebody's transmission calibration, I mean, I've heard more than one story of some bigger name tuners out there. They usually are flash in the pan, and they come and they go because of this, but they were a customer of a really good tuner, and they started looking at some of the things they're doing, and you can kind of do the same combo over and over, jam some s*** in there, and set it off there, and it'll correct fuel, it'll do all kinds of crazy stuff. So they call themselves tuners.

That's big in the Ford world.

It's big in the Hellcat world, too.

You're drifting on me. The Hellcat's wide bands are not... It's too long of a subject, but they're not good. They're very, I think they're like one volt based, I could be wrong.

That's why it's a flash in the pan situation.

Right, because they're reliant, like a Coyote wideband is really good.

It's real good.

Right, so a lot of these Coyote tuners, they only have to get it pretty close, and it's going to take over, and it will live for quite a while because it's a really good platform. The Hellcat stuff's a good platform, but they have a really crappy wideband, but people try to tune them like the Ford stuff, where you're like, oh, this is close enough. Well, that wideband's not going to always target properly, and you lose a motor. But, you know, I guess the GM stuff, we don't have that advantage, so we have to really dial that stuff in. It takes a lot longer.

You get 20 revisions on some, you know, or more, I mean, on these big power cars.

That's another thing. I get customers, they're like, well, so-and-so tuned my car in three revisions. I'm like, good luck.

Yeah, good luck on a hot or a cold day.

I'm not doing that. I care more than that. If you think that's because he's a better tuner, okay. That just tells me that he doesn't give a s***. Because could I tune a car? I could put a file in a car, and you would believe that it was perfect. But I'm looking at it like, I know there's so much I want to make better, and I'll spend 20, 30 revisions if we have to.

I'll tell him, Justin, we made the number. Don't worry about it. He's like, no, no, no, there's this thing. There's this whatever.

Because it needs to be perfect if we want it to live. It's all about trying to keep your name. A lot of people are like, oh, Justin puts these cars on edge. I don't.

No, unless you ask me.

There is so much more that I don't put in. And it's not because I'm trying to hold anybody back. It's because I know I do a lot of testing with knock monitors and things like that behind the scenes to make sure that I know my models and my torque, my spark tables, my knock tables, all of that's really well dialed in for the majority because you got to know fuel around the world is not the same either.

Yeah.

So you got to know that. I went as far as bought five gallons of fuel from the UAE just to test it in a car. I bought fuel from New Zealand. I bought fuel from Germany.

What's fuel like on Epstein Island?

It's not great because there's no ethanol. That's really rude.

Anyway, I'm sorry.

But a lot of people, you know, I deal with a lot of shops that were tuners, and they stopped tuning because they wanted to focus on their stuff. And then I just do it. They claim it as theirs. I really don't care. They pay. It doesn't bother me. But a lot of people try to talk bad about shops that do that. But why?

You know, when I don't have in-house tuning, use your resources.

When I do like a car, I just had a guy try to give me s***. I have a guy when I do a car that has a Holley, I have a guy, Dylan Merkel, that looks over my Holley stuff.

Yep.

And they're like, why would you do that? Well, that's you're paying the same price. You've got two guys now. You got two guys looking at this, two guys making sure it's right. That's his expertise level. My expertise levels here. You have two experts on one car for the same price. But some guys are like, oh, well, he uses somebody else to look at his Holley stuff. And everybody was like, are you complaining about that? You're mad because he wants to make sure your car is right?

People don't understand.

That's where the argument is at, though. These shops, I think most shops, an in-house tuner, it works, and it's efficient. It helps, but if they really wanted the best, I think working with having a tuner that can do that, that's that platform specific, you know, I see 100 times more than an in-house tuner will see.

You know, the other thing, to that point, is I get the, you know, remote tuners can't ever knock it, you know, they can't hit the tune exactly. And man, that's not true. If you have somebody who's competent on the other end, saying, hey man, I'm feeling this here, I'm seeing this here, able to relay that information, it gets taken care of.

That's why the shop stuff works so well.

Yeah.

So if I'm tuning with a shop, a bunch of stuff, like let's say in Detroit, not Detroit, in Chicago, I deal with a shop BC Speed, and the guy John there, I tuned for them for probably four or five years. About year three, he was like, man, I'm really interested in this tuning stuff. So I'll teach him. I'm not a great teacher, but I kind of helped him, and now he'll tune the Gen 3s and the Gen 4s, and he does a very good job. He sends it to me, hey man, what do you think? Okay, this is good, this is good, do this. Gen 5s, I'll tune for him. But if shops did that, you get the giant knowledge base that I have, and you're just paying for the tune. And then they're gonna market up anyways, so they're gonna make their money. They're not gonna have to deal with the headache. And then they have somebody that can see that everything that's going on everywhere and kind of apply that.

Yeah, and as a shop owner on my side, if I'm driving a customer car, we're trying to get all buttoned up and dialed in and ready to go, and I'm driving it into work, and I'm like, man, I just felt that. All I have to do is send that log to Justin, send him an email, worst case a phone call, and he's on it. And I can go back to doing what I'm doing. That car gets done right. He does his revision, I drive it again. In between, it's just not only are you gonna get a better product at the end of the day using somebody that knows what they're doing, but also it's way more productive for a shop owner.

So that sounds perfect. What happens when you have somebody calling you for the first time to do a remote tune, and they don't know what to look for or feel? Like, what does that conversation look like?

So I missed it, but what I was getting at is, so when I start tuning for a shop, at about five tunes, I set up a trip. I'll go to them.

No s***.

So I go to them, I explain what I'm looking for. This is what I want. I want spark plugs. I want these. I want this. I want this. This is what I want you to check before. If you want to charge them a prelim inspection, do that. And I'll prep the customer ahead of time. Hey, go to this shop. You know, they're gonna inspect the car. They're gonna do the tune. And it works. But yeah, I'll usually go visit the shop. That's the advantage I have of being able to travel.

This is like a new shop you're working with.

Right. And sometimes they'll get, you know, they're like, man, I've got like eight or nine cars to do. So I'll just fly in. And I'll go tune the cars on site.

So what does that education look like? Like, do you sit down with them and you're like, all right, well, here's what you want to be feeling in this instance or...

Because like, we'll go drive the cars together. And I'll be like, look, once I get it to where the shifts are real clean, I'll be like, hey, come ride with me. Okay, do you feel this, this, and this? This is how a shift is supposed to feel. This is how a shift shouldn't feel. Okay, now you drive, and they'll drive it. And once they've driven it a couple of times, as they're tuning these cars, they know what they're supposed to feel like. And if something doesn't feel right, even if they can't explain it to me, because people are like, oh, that was wonky. I'm like, bro, I don't know what that means.

Is it the medical term?

But they'll know what it's supposed to feel like. After we do so many cars, you kind of, like when I get in a car, I'm like, oh, that shock's bad. And people are like, what? I'm like, I'm in too many of these. You got something going on back there. But that's how the shops will get. They'll feel it. You get in that rhythm, and it's again, arguably way better, because they know what they need to feel.

Yeah, Justin will be, he'll look at a log that I'll send over, and he'll say, man, didn't you feel that? And they're like, man, feel what? Oh yeah, look at, you know, XYZ. And it's in the log, and then he'll call me a dummy or whatever. But then I learned something, because then I know, okay, now I've got to, I know how that felt. I know exactly what he's talking about now, but I just didn't know about it previously. And it's, is it picking the fly s*** out of the pepper? For sure, dude, or the other way around. But you know, at the same time, that's how you get a superior product, for sure.

Well, that's the other thing that I always try to tell people. It's like, if you think about it, my background is GM diagnostic, right? That's what I did for GM. So I'm used to looking at data streams and finding the issue. That's what remote tuning is. And a lot of people don't remote tune, and that's just because that's not their aspect, right? But I'm looking at 200 channels or more. So yeah, you know, your local guy might be, might have his 40 pids pulled up, and he can get it close. But I'm looking at everything. I've got tire pressures. I've got your GPS location. I've got everything. Because, you know, if I'm like, man, this is kind of weird. I'm seeing knock, I'll go to that GPS location, check the DA, and be like, oh, that's why I need to adjust the timing for that.

Yeah.

Like, that's how intense we can get into this tuning, that arguably a guy that's going to run it on the dyno and hand you the keys, there's no way you can convince me that's better.

And speaking of like having somebody else look over your tune, you know, there are, if you have an in-house tuner, you have one guy, and he's just tuning the car. If I'm using Justin, I'm in the car, and he's tuning the car. Now we have two people on two different aspects of it. There's been, not many times, but there's been at least one time that I can remember, I'm like, dude, what is that? And his response is, oh, yeah, s***, hang on. Sends over a revision, and whatever it was is better. More often than not, it's the other way around. But like, I will say that there is a shop in particular recently that, you know, for some reason, people in Detroit like to try to pit shops against each other. It doesn't really work. But anyway, you know, there was a local shop that had some stuff in a tune that, man, Justin called me, and he was like, hey, you know, what do you know about this deal and these people? And I'm like, man, good people, most of the time do a really good job. He's like, you know, should I reach out and have a talk with him? You know, is it someone we should help out? Absolutely. And he did exactly that. And like, I think it, you know, that saved a customer some parts.

And I'm again, it saved the relationship that the customer had with the shop because the customer was mad at the shop. You know, obviously they thought that, you know, the shop was killing their transmission and this and that. And I was able to make a call to him. Hey man, you know, cause my first thing, a lot of tuners, they'll get in there. They want to bash it. And I'm guilty of it. I used to do it, but I've learned, hey man, maybe he had an off day. So instead of butchering this guy, give me a day. And the customer was like, okay, no problem. Talked to Ed, I talked to the guy. Guy was very responsive. He's like, man, you know, I think that is a mistake I made. He's like, I'm willing to stand behind it. If I need to buy a transmission, I will. And to me, I was like, that's amazing. And he's like, what made you call me? I was like, because I think more people should do this. I think, you know, you don't have to always crucify the tuner. And yes, they make mistakes. I make mistakes, it happens. If it costs something, I will make sure it's taken care of, as this guy was going to do. And then I was able to relay to the customer, hey, I spoke to him. Yes, he did make a mistake. If it did hurt the trans, he's willing to stand behind it. Let's move forward. And we made the trans work. Eventually, he did have a failure down the road, and the customer is going to bring it to them, get the trans built, have it handled, and I'll retune the car. But that salvaged a relationship, built me a relationship with this shop. If he ever needs anything, I'll always answer the phone for him. And if more people did that, instead of just trying to bash everybody online, there's more than enough work out here. There's way more than enough work.

Yeah, if you go to a shop, and you've had previous modifications, and all that shop wants to do is absolutely tear a previous shop apart, sometimes, I guess, there's nothing else you can do because there's just negligence. But yeah, it's kind of a red flag if you're getting a bunch of trash talk about what other people are doing.

Well, let's not pretend that there's not some s*** shops out there, too, right?

Absolutely.

There's tons of that.

And had I thought that that was intentional, and had I called him and he'd tell me, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, that would have taken a south turn. But that showed me that that guy was willing to listen and be open and be receptive.

And to that same point, though, what sometimes customers forget to talk about is the fact that the car's been to three shops after that shop. Or it's been two years since, and the corner mechanic did some work to it. Or they did their own stuff in the garage. I've seen a lot of that as well. You know, they'll say, hey, this was built at XYZ shop, and we popped the hood. And I'm like, no, no, it was not. None of that was done by XYZ. No way.

I've gotten a car that came to me that they were like, oh, it was fresh out of vet lab. And I'm like, not a chance. Like I'm looking over the building, not a chance. I send pictures to Ed and Ed's like, you know, I didn't do that. I'm like, I know. But he didn't mention that it had been to multiple other people touching it. So there is instances, and there's instances, like I said, with the power wiring and just the set up in general, like if they're messing it up, I'll still call them and be like, hey man, you know, you put four nozzles of meth on here, but you never check the pressure. You should probably do that. And it helped. They changed their ways. Cool. I don't always get that reception. I get it a lot more now because people know that obviously, I have a pretty good understanding of what I'm doing, and I'm calling you to try to help us both. But sometimes it goes negative. They're like, oh, you're wrong, blah, blah, blah, and they want to talk s*** back. Whatever. I don't care. I'll talk s*** back. But I don't think it's going to help anything. I don't think it's going to benefit anybody. So.

What's the hardest part about what you do?

Getting things tuned efficiently fast enough to keep people happy.

What's fast enough?

To me, I think if we can tune a car for a customer on his own time within a few days or a week. Well, I mean, yes, we can knock it out in an hour. But again, arguably, if they're going to drive this thing to work every day and they can send me a log on the way to work and then I can get them an update and they send me a log on the way home, you're going to get a much better product than if we tried to hammer something out in an hour. So I do that, I can do the tune within a couple of hours, but I usually try to get people to kind of let's go over time. I've got some cars that I've tuned on for over a year, and it's just little revisions every now and then, and you can always find new stuff.

Mine took me two months and there's 90 emails back and forth. We had issues, and then also, when you're street tuning, you can't, like, some days it was raining, I can't go out and do a, you know, a pull to 7500 RPMs when it's raining, or if it's during five o'clock and there's traffic and s***, then I shouldn't be out there doing that s*** either, so.

But you stuck with them.

Absolutely.

That's the issue. There's a lot of these guys, I do get people that are like, oh, well so-and-so did it in three revisions. And like, I'll be tuning with them for like two weeks, and we're really close, but like, I'm the picky b****, and I wanna keep going.

For sure.

And they'll take it to somebody else, and somebody else will just like add some fuel and be like, yeah, I re-tuned it, charge him full price. He's like, well, he did it in two revisions. I'm like, if you feel better about that, no problem.

That's another thing is like, oh yeah, so-and-so tuned my car. How many tuners has it, how many of your friends with HP Tuners has messed with it since then, right? It's like, there's a lot of that out there too.

Luckily, HP Tuners logs every time somebody makes a change, if you set that up. Then I've had that, I've gotten a file back, and I've checked it, and I've been like, so what did you change? What do you mean? I'm like, you flashed it three times. What are you flashing in it? I mean, I get that, but people's copy in tunes is mind-blowing. I just, I put a, you know, I'd say a code, but basically certain numbers in certain places, based on where you live now. Oh, really? Yeah, and that way, when it pops up, I know where it came from, I know who was sharing my files, and then I cut them off. Now we have an NDA to fix that, so we can actually take further action. But that's a big problem. And the issue is they'll get it. There was a shop I tuned a CTSV for, and then he became known as the CTSV guy in that area. And he was flashing that same file in cars, and he was successful for about six months until people started coming to me to try to fix their tune, and I pull it up and I'm like, that looks really familiar. And then I found, I look at the code and I'm like, okay, I did one car for that shop. It was this year. That's that file. And I called him. He's like, oh, I didn't know that was an issue. I'm like, come on, man. But you can't flash the same year file in different years. Because again, the tables may look the same, but things are different.

I'm the 2014 CTSV Specialist. Come to me only if you have this year.

With this VIN code and this ECU number.

I get the people, they're like, oh, well, you run a special tune in your car. Bro, you pay for a tune. You can come pull it out yourself. You can have it. I don't care. But, you know, it's not that we run anything special for anybody. It's just, you know, every car is a little different. Everything needs a little bit different. And arguably, my tune is trash for my car, because I don't care. I just, it goes fast, and then I drive it every now and then. Yeah. But what I want to put into a customer's car is, you could have the same mods, and I'll have a hundred different changes between the two cars. Most tuners, you can see, their files are like the same thing in every car, and they're just close enough. Had we had wide bands, it would be way worse. So.

I always get worried about, when I've started tuning, what gas is in my car when I start. I try to not have, so on my one car, I have a 91 tune, because I needed it for road rallies, and I blow her car, so I pulley up for E85, or pulley down for E85, and I pulley back up for the 91 tune. But I was like, I want to find the s******** gas that I may ever come across when I start the tuning process, so that we're not like, oh, he tuned it on 93, everything looks great, then I go dump 91 in it, and it's not the same thing.

You see, you have wide bands, but had you actually got a proper ethanol flex sensor set up, you wouldn't have to worry about that. We do have that.

Yeah, we don't have that yet.

If you don't have that, you can have that.

Yeah.

Do we have that now? I don't think we do.

No, you guys don't.

You have flex fuel, but it's inferred flex fuel. So it's based off of fuel trim error. So it's like, oh, well, I'm 30% off on fuel. I must have this much ethanol in. Where we have an actual sensor that measures the lack of petrol in the going through the tube. So it's way more accurate.

I've heard this is coming, but I have not seen anything.

Well, we've had it since 1998.

In a Tahoe.

Yeah.

Get with the times, sir.

All right. So you know how much ethanol is going in that cute little cam?

It doesn't matter because it will adjust for it.

Yeah.

I guess the E100 doesn't matter.

It just goes to show that there are benefits and drawbacks to every platform. Yeah, I know.

But when I see guys with Corvettes out there, like measuring the ethanol and the gas pump and all, and I'm like, once you're way over thinking this, if your tune was right, you would have to worry about that.

We'll kind of dive a little bit more into that.

What?

What are, why?

Because they're trying to get the most ethanol possible, right? And they think that their tune is going to change or something like that. But like, if you tune it properly, you can put 87 in there and the knock table will take over and we'll adjust the tune if you tune it properly.

I've seen shop owners say, like, if I ever see you with one of these stupid tubes. The tubes work.

And if you're trying to, you know, like, I usually run, again, because I try to keep mine on more of a customer basis, I run like E65, whatever comes out of the gas pump, make what I make on that fuel. But I could run pretty much whatever fuel I want. But what I've tested, E50 is where most of your gains are at. 65 to 70, I think, is about peak. And anything over that, and this is all my opinion, anything past that, you're not really going to gain so much power, but you're going to gain cooling and resistance to detonation, basically. A little safer. So, like, if I run a car on E85 a lot, for street driving, things like that, if we go to the half mile, we run a drum fuel, because we want to make sure we have every, we don't have any of the 87 or whatever they put in that mix. But people kind of overthink it, I think.

Do you have a favorite, like, whether it's one ethanol or I'm blanking on the other name right now.

Ignite Red? Yeah. I like Ignite Red or one.

Okay.

I don't run it in my car because it's too expensive. There's advantages of it because, you know, the the extra fuel is not 87 octane. The extra fuel is another race gas. So like on a race event, I might would run it if I wanted to splurge out or something. But I try to keep everything to where it will run on just regular pumpy. Okay. But yeah, when I did the half mile with that car because it was a stock motor and everything, and I knew we were going to push it, we ran one ethanol supplied by what's the name?

The Enthimoto?

The Enthimoto. Yeah. That guy was so nice.

That's another thing that I'm glad you brought up. On some of these cars, these builds with people that are new into the car scene, or people have been in the car scene a long time, and they don't understand the difference in fuel, right? Like you're saying on a pumpy 85, I talk to my guys about, talk to my customers about making sure that you go to the same spot every time. But if you want that car on kill, if you're going to do, I don't do any half mile stuff, but that is where you're going to absolutely find the end of everything, right? I mean, that's where everything has to be perfect. It is a cheap investment to save a motor, to run good barrel fuel.

Yeah, because the eighth mile is one thing, quarter mile is one thing, but then you got two quarter miles.

Man.

And typically where I do it mostly is in Puerto Rico, where it's 3000 DA, 90 degrees outside, with a headwind.

Yeah, it's the worst.

So like, if your tune up's wrong, you're going back on a trailer. When I go to the Texas Mile, I'm terrified of the Texas Mile still, because most of the cars that drive in there leave on trailers. Really?

It's just hard on stuff.

Four quarter miles, you know? It's insane.

God.

So that's where I would definitely suggest people run that kind of fuel.

So you would say that that's even harder on a car than a quarter mile, then?

Significantly.

Okay.

Yes.

Significantly. Maybe not on a suspension component, but just think of what that engine's going through in overdrive.

I guess it is twice as long.

Well, your wide open throttle for overdrive gear get back into that peak torque area.

Yeah, yep.

That's where it gets dangerous.

Everything gets hot. Everything gets hot, if it's not properly cool, but even stuff. There's some things that you just can't do anything about.

I'd say arguably that's why the Fords can't keep up with us at the half mile.

Isn't Clinton Davis setting some pretty cool records?

Listen, I'm talking about where we're at.

He has an LS swap, doesn't he?

No, I don't think so.

He hasn't popped the hood, that's all I'm gonna say.

I did watch a CTS-V with a 5-foot wing on it, go 220.

Yeah, 222 or something like that. Yeah, I was telling Dan about this. I'm like, dude, we saw a V with a wing yesterday, and he's like, oh, that's a cute wing. I'm like, dude, you should have seen the one at that event because that thing was nuts.

They even welded little supports into the back of the car, so when they shut the trunk, it had something to push against.

Yeah, you kind of need that at certain levels for some cars.

I don't think I can explain how big... You ever watch cars, like the cartoon with the cars? One of those.

The four-stacker. Dude, there's an F-150 guy that has the wing uprights welded to the rear axle. So the wing is on the rear axle.

Well, that was something Calvo was talking about, was that if you run that ACR wing, if you don't run it, the car is rough because the suspension is set up for that wing.

Well, that would be great, though, if it went right to the axle, right? Because then your suspension is...

Out of the picture.

Yeah.

It's on the tire. It's pretty cool. Does it work?

That would be hard to do either, right through the bed, a couple slots.

Yeah, I don't know if we were talking a little bit about Alex Chud with the work truck. You know, he's like a crazy mad scientist guy, and he saw somebody that had done that, and I'm pretty sure you're going to probably see him do that, at least to try it.

That's a cool concept.

It's super cool.

Yeah.

This question's kind of been lingering for a while, and then we'll probably wrap up here in a little bit, but what's it called? When do you fire a customer?

Typically, immediately, as fast as I can.

But what causes that? Like, what's something that's like, yep, this guy's a bad fit? Disappear.

So typically, somebody will contact me for a tune or something, they'll book it or, and they'll shoot me a message and be like, hey man, recently I had, and a guy's like, hey, let's get this going, blah, blah, all right, no problem, your appointment's here. I get it ahead of time. And then they'll, basically, I have in my email link, there is bold italic underlined in three different colors. This big, it says, you must read this link, click here, blah, blah, and it's terms and conditions of what I expect of you, what you expect of me, how to do this. First line is no wide open throttle, until I tell you so. So, the guy, I'll send the thing out there, I have channels layout, there's even a video that's an hour long in there, if you want to watch the whole thing, that literally tells you how to set up your channels, how to set up this, all within the first five minutes, and then what you're looking for in the log, and how to decipher the log if you want to do that. All of that aside, I'll get a log back, and the guy will have no channels, so I can't see anything. And I'm like, hey man, you didn't load the channels, this is how you do that, blah, blah, blah. And then they won't do it again. And then they'll just, you know, basically they're just resistant to actually listening. And then I'll just be like, hey, this is not going to work, go somewhere else. Because if you don't care, how do I care? I want to care about your car. I want to know that we did this together. Be it May, that's just how I am. If I feel like you aren't going to do what you're supposed to do, then how can I do what I'm supposed to do? And I don't want, you know, I get these guys that are like, oh, I don't care if it blows. Well, I care. You know, first off, it's dangerous. You could die. Second off, it doesn't look very good. So you got to really know the customer. That was something that took me a long time to kind of figure out. I don't really have it that often. I did have a guy go down the Autobahn on a base file for 18 minutes.

Oh, my God.

Luckily, it lived, and it was almost dead on with the first file. It was a CTS-V2, and I've done so many that... But boy, watching that log and just watching it and watching it at 180-something miles an hour, I was like, this is wild. I have that log saved somewhere, because it blows my mind. 18 minutes of wide open.

On a PD car.

I didn't fire him. He was super great. Great guy.

I always try and figure I want my tuner to have, I'm going to give you more information than you want.

And I have a lot of people like that.

I have like a sheet of like flow stuff for my injectors. I copy paste all that s***. I f****** send them my whole build. I get everything. I'll give them way more f****** information than they need.

He's got a green belt.

Yeah.

Make sure you say that.

I do pictures of my measure for E85, because I have to do that because I drive a Ford, and I'd send pictures of that in every time I do a log. I was like, this is what I had in the car at the time.

That's literally, it's like a Corvette away from never having to do that again.

Yeah.

Well, actually, you can get, I put sensors in Ford cars a lot.

Yeah, the big tuners won't do it.

Yeah, I like that. It uses the Continental sensor. The GM uses it.

But the big tuners won't allow it.

Why? You can log it.

You can get a sensor that just tells you the E content, and then that's just so you don't have to do the plastic.

But they won't tune them on flex because it's inferred and it's dangerous.

Yeah, I would definitely not use it for any kind of flex set up.

It's a selectable map, is what it is then. So you can go based on your E content or pump gas, and then you switch back and forth.

When they had that end gauge...

We do one map and it just does it all.

Well, they had the end gauge before they got rid of it, and that was super cool.

Which I don't know why.

That thing was awesome.

Super well.

I'm not going to talk about it.

But anyway, it's one of those things where I have a car that's still out there today, and there are three different calibrations, three different tunes, and I told them that I really want to make sure that before you switch tunes, you're in this window of e-content. And again, don't beat on it until it's here. And that way you can see it's on his dashboard. They make those little vent gauges, and I think that's the only way to fly. My GM customers, I like them to have HP tuners. I like to have them to be able to take a log so they can actually see the e-content.

The other benefit of that, and I try to tell this to customers, is like, if you feel something weird in your car, right? Well, if you feel something weird in your car, what do you do? You've got to take that car, take it to the shop, have somebody figure it out. Well, when you're a remote-tuning customer, you can send me a log, and almost 10 out of 10, I can tell you, this is what's wrong, check this, go here, and they at least know, okay, I can do this. The benefits of remote-tuning nowadays is insane. It's huge. Because we can see all this, I can tell you what's going on, you never even had to go to the shop, or I'm big on the networking thing, I can usually tell you a shop to go to that I know, that I've dealt with, that I trust, that's going to do good.

So you touched a little bit on earlier, a shop that you'll work with. What about an individual? Let's say I wanted you to tune for me, how do you know that I'm feeling the right things when you're remote-tuning for me?

Typically, if I tune cars through somebody, it's because I tuned a car with that person for a while. I have a really good friend, Taylor Hoyt, he's in Atlanta. Really, really good dude. I tuned his car for like a year or two. We've become really good friends. And then, you know, I'd go hang out and we'd tune a car together. So now he knows what we're looking for, and then he can do just what the shops could do. But then he has a little more time to do it. I have a lot of individual people that I do that with as well.

Okay.

It's just because they kind of know what I'm looking for. They know the do's and don'ts. They can produce it a lot more effectively.

Well, sweet. As we start wrapping up here, was there anything that you kind of wanted to touch on? Actually, you know what? Let's talk about the podcast thing. We talked a little bit about that beforehand, that you are thinking about doing some stuff, both of you together potentially. Do you want to touch on that real quick?

Yeah. Well, after last night, you kind of convinced me.

I'm good at that.

And I appreciate it. That was something, again, that I was really excited about. I've talked to a lot of people about podcast stuff. I've helped with Go Hard, and I'll continue in the future to help him on episodes because he was nice enough to let me be a part of that. But while doing that, I really enjoy this. I really like networking. I like trying to bring people together. So we're going to start the tuned in podcast, tuned in with JWT. And again, I'd like to do it with other podcasters. I'd like to do it with people in the automotive industry, people in other industries, pretty much just let people have a word and then be able to have this conversation. And then Ed is going to help me out. He has 5 O'Clock Garage Podcast that he's going to be doing now.

Have you started that yet or no?

So it's not published anywhere. We've been working on... Everybody's really busy right now is the downside. We just filmed some things out west with... I don't think I'm supposed to say with who, but we've just got a lot of big projects going on right now. The podcast thing we started probably six or eight months ago. We have an entire media partner that does some really nice stuff, and it's a guy that I'm hooking Justin up with as well. So 5 O'Clock Garage Podcast itself isn't... We have a few episodes for things that we can show people for sponsorships and whatnot to try to get a little bit of funding behind it as well. But from what I understand, our media guy was doing a lot with the election, so that took up a lot of time. Now that that's over, he'll be able to dedicate more time to the podcast. But some of the area, the Go Hard podcast, I think is super cool. I've never, I don't think I've ever listened to a three and a half hour podcast before, but the one with Delgado on there and Justin was so informative, man. I mean, a couple of guys that are top in the performance area for sure. And I get to hear Justin's take on a lot of things, but Chris is someone that I almost dealt with in the past. It's funny, I want to go off on a tangent here real quick. It's funny, I had a car tied down and ready to go years ago, five, six years ago, that Delgado was supposed to tune, and he backed out last minute. I was mad at him for a long time. But in that podcast, he explained exactly why he didn't want to tune that combo anymore, and it's because he couldn't get it right. He never told me that. I think it was because he didn't want to throw the standalone company that we had in that car under the bus. But anyway, so, yeah, so as far as the podcast thing goes, I think that GoHard has its niche for sure. Justin digs into the details of the performance world a lot more. And then the Five O'Clock Garage Podcast is kind of automotive in general. I mean, Five O'Clock Garage is a shop where we do everything. You know, we're kind of blending in performance into, you know, vinyl, graphics, custom builds. You know, it's kind of a, you know, we just acquired a 35,000 square foot roller skating rink, former roller skating rink in Michigan. So we're, you know, kind of turning that into our studio, if you will, to do more, probably more build videos, probably more media, that type of thing. We're getting out of the customer pay performance car builds into more influencer builds, more brand builds, stuff that both Matt Zerbrick, who's actually the lead on Five O'Clock Garage, and myself have been getting into a lot more. He's done a lot more with OEMs and whatnot. So some of what we talked about today as far as firing customers, as far as people not being educated on modifying their car, is pushing me out of that customer pay area into... I want to do this and I want to have fun. I love cars. I love making stuff fast. So that said, Five O'Clock Garage is more broad. We do Jeep things, we do off-road things, as we do road course things, a lot. We have different guys in different areas that we talk about.

You're drifting on me, by the way.

What's that? Oh, there you go.

Just a tip.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But as far as the American muscle performance side of things, Justin's, he's the guy for sure. So we're gonna try to mesh these two together where he has his thing and we have our thing, but we're doing... 100%.

I mean, you guys can collaborate in all the right ways. We talked about this last night between blacking in and out.

Between consciousness, yeah. We call that long blinks.

Yeah, but rising tides, they lift all boats, and at the end of the day, everybody's... You said we can interview the same person, all four of us or whatever, and it'll be different conversations. For the most part, there'd be some crossover, but not much.

Because everybody has their own way of getting the information that they're trying to get. My information is to... One thing I noticed when I was doing the podcast is the people that would reach out to me and be like, man, I really appreciate what you did for our business. I'm like, no, dude, I just told your story, and people just needed to know that.

It's not about she was the interviewer.

It has nothing to do with me. I'm just there because I can answer the questions on a level that a lot of people can't. I know the information that the customers are looking for, because I'll still obviously be full-time tuning because this won't take a lot of the time away.

If you do it right, yeah.

Right. But I know what people are kind of looking for, and I'd like to reach a lot more people to let them know these issues that we're having and how to go about it and how to fix this and how to do that or what these guys are actually doing that people don't even know anything about. But I've noticed with doing that podcast, a lot of people, they're like, man, thank you, the Brian Tulli episode we did. They're like, man, I can't believe the amount of knowledge y'all dropped on that episode. A lot of people would gatekeep that stuff. And arguably, Brian might have gate kept that for a long time. But he was able to open up and talk about it on a level.

You should ask, too, right?

I know what to ask.

And he was comfortable because he knows that my whole goal is to paint you in the best light or the proper light. I mean, if you're a bad person, I probably wouldn't have you on there anyways. Yeah, there's that, too. But typically, there's a lot of these guys that are doing some really cool stuff that nobody really knows. The other thing that I'm going to do that I think is a little different, I want to go to these different countries that I tune in and showcase some of that. I mean, those Australians are wild.

Real wild.

And you kind of get glimpses of it, but you don't actually see how they started, where they come from, and what they've dealt with. A lot of these countries have some crazy regulations you don't know about that you've got to deal with and things coming through. I actually had to talk to the government in the UAE to explain why a methanol kit was safe. And we got it approved.

How did that conversation go?

You have to approve your mods in a certain country out there, which I thought was wild. Yeah, I know. It was super crazy. But what I'm saying is, like, there's so much out there that a lot of people don't have the unique advantage of. I can go out there and tune some cars, which would cover my travel, and then I can do an interview and let everybody kind of see what's going on, because I've been to some crazy places, and I would love to have shared it with people, but I didn't know that anybody would be interested in watching it, or that I would even be interested in doing this, until I just started doing it.

I'm excited, Freeman. Like I told you, I send my list of everything that it takes to run this, and some people take me up on it, and I'll send them the entire list. Like, here's what it's going to cost. Here's the cheaper version. Here's the more expensive version. Here's my next upgrade I'm planning in the next year. I'll give you all that. You just gotta ask, right? Same thing with in your space. You are happy to teach someone. They just gotta ask. So I think, I'm telling you, man, just start this week.

I think the smarter we are all together, the better we're gonna be. Same thing I tell customers. I will walk you through everything in that log. I will tell you what I'm doing. I have certain guys that, they don't know what I'm talking about, but they're like, man, I just wanna know. And I'm like, I understand you may not understand it, but the fact that you wanna know, I'll take my time to do that. The same thing with the podcast. As I learned the podcast stuff, if there's something I learned, I don't mind putting it out there and helping people. And the fact that you were so open about it really kind of...

Yeah, I told you everything yesterday, yeah.

Really kind of pushed me to like, okay, let's do this.

Super cool.

We really appreciate, it was... First of all, when I got to the hotel last night, my head was pounding, and I was like, all right.

Did you use Elvis' toilet?

I did, yes, actually. I don't know which one.

Not the bidet. Did you use the bidet?

No, I thought about it, though.

The spin washer? No.

Was that not a drinking fountain?

Ooh, missed the cue on that one.

No, we really appreciate it. I'm glad I forced myself to go out. I had a blast. You guys just accepted us in. Like, we were part of your little group, and we really appreciate that.

Super cool meeting you guys, for sure. It was a great time hanging out.

Dude, I'm telling you, I know you're from Houston. You Detroit people are... I f****** love all you people out there. It's you people. But it's been nothing but just nice, good energy from everyone.

Yeah, you got in...

Y'all can quiet over there.

You got in with the right group, for sure.

I've yet to meet someone from Detroit that hasn't been just warm, hospitable, and awesome.

I think Matt and I are... We're getting an apartment together, for sure.

Yeah, you should. Just make sure it has two bedrooms. The Cher and the Queen, we've done that before. Not a good idea, man.

They also all like to sleep in the same bed.

Yeah, it's a Detroit thing. Yeah, it's a Detroit thing.

I was having a struggle figuring out which car to bring out for Dream Cruise, so I think I'm going to bring my big gooseneck. I'm going to bring a couple of cars, and you said I could park at your guys' spot.

Absolutely. We have a huge lot. You can park the rig out there. We have an indoor, full, huge place that you can park. You can bring 100 cars and park them all in there, for sure.

Well, on that note, Dan, do you want to pop the usual three?

Yeah, absolutely. So at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guests to pick three car, three cars, sorry, again, two. I would tell 2.30 last night, it was a little rough for me.

Yeah, everybody's tired.

I'm 42 years old. That's not cool anymore. Anyway, I need you guys to pick three cars.

I can't wait to cut that, by the way. Need you to pick three car.

I need a track car, a daily driver, and a show car. You have an unlimited budget. You can swap whatever you want. Build whatever you want.

What do you need to pick?

I mean, that one's pretty simple for me. All right, let's go. Track car would be an R8, because they work in Excel in every platform. Gen 1, 2? 2, for sure. B10, for sure. That would be my track car, because I like them.

By track, you mean quarter mile track?

Pick a track.

All right, go ahead.

Well, it will do both.

Go ahead.

What was it? Show car?

Show car and a daily.

Koenigsegg, for sure.

Which Koenigsegg?

For sure. I'm still a partial of the Aguera. I like the Aguera. I mean, Yesco would be really cool. But the Aguera, it's got everything Koenigsegg to it. And daily, apply it. I knew that was the ultimate daily.

Like S?

If I didn't have so many kids, the X because of the kids.

You know how that happens, right?

I f*** a lot.

I was going to say, I know it's the Houston Public School thing again. I can explain it.

When I found her, I had to put a baby in.

You got to lock it down right away.

I did. We went to Europe two weeks after getting together, and implanted it right there, the Isle of Capri.

That's so romantic.

Look, when you know you're back out of your league, you got to lock that down.

Implanted it.

And that's the best thing I ever did, because she made me everything that we are now.

You should write romance novels. TurboWen is super cool. I like TurboWen.

But that would be my three.

What's your three?

If you say G8, I'm getting up out of here.

No, no. Vastly different. So TrackCar, a C5 Corvette, that's an absolute bucket of s***.

Road course?

Like road course stuff.

Brian Tulli has a C5 that he road courses. He said it went faster than a C7.

Yeah, I want a C5, because something that you could hit the wall... Like I did a simu... Yeah, well, ideally, that'd be better. But I was doing a racing simulator yesterday, and I hit the wall a hundred times. So that's why. But I used to be the guy that really liked the clean, polished cars and all of that. And my current C6 is a little rough around the edges, and I love it, man. So I don't want a car on a track that I have to worry about scratching up or hurting or whatever. So that's that. Show car, I want to customize a first-gen Saab 900 Turbo so bad, I can't even stand it. Like on bags, the biggest wheel that will fit in it, I can't even tell you how bad I want to do that. I know someone's going to see this and steal my idea, god damn it, but it's such a good looking car. So that was, and then daily, a Turbo S, current model year Turbo S. In the winter, Blizz X, but it's such a reliable car.

Like a Taycan Turbo?

No, a Porsche Turbo S.

Like a Taycan?

What?

Taycan?

No, 911.

They have a Turbo S, Taycan?

Well, whatever. Anyway.

I like where your head's at. Yeah, yeah. I tuned him out.

Yeah. Yeah. He's a GM guy. You got to watch out for those guys.

Well, perfect, then. On that note, where can people find you? We'll start with you.

Instagram, YouTube, Justin White tuned on pretty much everything, and the podcast will be tuned in with JWT. I guess, dropping next week. We'll see.

Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Instagram is at betlab. Right now, I'm working on... Being that we were doing other platforms on TikTok, I've been working on Performance Lab Detroit, which is kind of... It's not yet a DBA, but will likely be soon. Right now, it's just a...

You got three weeks to support us, Ayres, so...

Yeah. Right now, it's just a TikTok channel, so...

Yeah. Well, perfect. Dan?

You can find us at Gunna Garage with two N's. Hopefully, we're starting some snowmobile content here pretty quick, but we'll see.

It's like a thing that goes on the snow.

Yeah. It's a horse... It's 300 horsepower in a snowmobile.

It weighs like 800 pounds.

We take those and put them in four-wheelers and put them in sand.

Yeah.

All right. Whatever. You know.

That's fun, too.

Hey, what color is sand? Beige. Oh, imagine that.

You guys got sand dunes?

We do.

In Michigan?

And what color is it?

Beige. But there's pine trees all around it.

There's palm trees all around it.

We have palm trees around it.

Yeah.

Well, perfect. On that note, Justin, thank you very much for coming on.

Ed, thanks for having me, guys. Yeah.

Yeah, this was good.

Dan, thanks for existing. And we will see y'all next time. And by the time we hit the bottom of that escalator, you should have all your gear ordered.

Not paid for, but ordered.

Taking sponsorships.

He's going to take off with our gear.

Yeah.

See y'all next time.