136. Road Racing, Volkswagen Racecars and Show Cars, Koni w/ Aaron Stehly

If you can't spend, back then, 10 to $15,000 per weekend as a driver, you don't have the seat. I built it as if Singer built a Volkswagen, so how would Singer do it? Tried to carry that theme all the way through, but then really have a touch of like motor sports into it as well.

Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide podcast. I'm your host, Harris, AKA Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations, and I'm here with my Ford Loving co-host, Dan. How do I do this intro usually? Is that how I do it?

I think you say my name and then you call me Mr. Gunner Garage.

Yeah. Yeah, we're kind of in VW territory.

Do you need to go back and listen to a couple just to see?

Which everyone's aren't deleted. Yeah. Well, anyways, today we are here with Aaron Stehly. Obviously, I could do a little bit of introduction of what you do. You do a ton of stuff, particularly with the road course side of things a lot, but the Volkswagen side of things. But honestly, nobody's going to give you a better intro than yourself. So go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself.

And we'll go from there. All right, so, yeah, Aaron Stehly, born and raised in Minneapolis. And I guess you could probably say I'm a certified car nut. It's a high octane race fuel through my veins and oil on the brain, whatever. So I have been building cars, obsessed with cars ever since I was like a toddler, building little model cars under the staircase in my parents' basement, had a little model shop. And then as soon as I could drive, I actually started out with muscle cars. I had a 68 Cutlass that I restored by the time I was 15 and would have to drive on a permit with my parents going down to Porky's back in the late 90s and early 2000s when that was still fun. Yeah, right. Used to be able to get like the hamburger with the onion ring on top. And those were like the good days. And then like the checker lot and everything was, those were like the golden years we could reminisce about. But somehow like the Volkswagen bug bit me and I started building Mark 1s, Mark 2s and then enjoyed autocrossing. Back when you used to actually be able to autocross at the airport, like pre-911, they would go on the, what was it, the east side of the airport. We would have a little all-cross course and the next thing led to me going to Skip Barber Race School. And that was like 99, 2000. So sophomore year of high school. And got a knack for it. Went through a couple different of their advanced series, got my national competition license, raced a little bit more with them in Formula Dodges. And then had my first accident at Canada Corner at Road America. Said, I want to race with enclosed wheel vehicles. And so then got into Volkswagen's and haven't looked back since.

Okay. So where does this whole bug start? What got you into cars in the first place? Obviously mentioned the muscle car thing, but does it go back even further? Were you a Hot Wheels kid or?

You know, I didn't get into Hot Wheels probably until I was like 35. Right.

So there's that other side of the spectrum too. Yeah.

But I always had Hot Wheels and all of that stuff as a kid. But the funny thing is if you talk to my parents, they would go to Brainerd every summer for the motorcycle races and then Can-Am and Trans-Am back in the early 80s. I was born in 83. And so the joke was I was already, so my mom was pregnant and I was already at the racetrack before I was even born. And so a race car would go by and I'd kick. And then another race car would go by and I'd kick harder. And so I don't know, we could get really like sentimental and say that was really the route. But I think straight off the gate, I was into anything with wheels, anything with motors, two, four, didn't really matter.

Okay. So you just had a weekend at Road America. So we can kind of backtrack from there. How did that go? Because now you got a Mark 7. I come from a Mark 7. So it's like, you know, brother or relatable or whatever. So how does that, I mean, we don't have the car in here right now, but how does that car become a thing? Because obviously it's not just a regular, you know, daily driver at this point. It's a full blown race car. Is that a way how you describe it or?

Yep. It's not even titled, to be honest. Okay. I got it as a cannot be on the street, cannot be driven. It was purchased solely to be a race car.

Okay.

Completely brought down to the bare unibody and then built back up to the rules.

Oh, wow.

Patience did the cage. There's a really every every nut has been touched, every bolt has been turned and tried to be optimized within the rule set that Sports Car Club of America gives us.

Did you buy it like a running driving car? Was it something with a branded title or?

Yeah, so that's a so that's a funny story. I got the car. It was actually a friend of mine had it. He's a Volkswagen personality. And it was half of it was like a media car and half of it was a car that was a flood. The unibody was a flood car out of New Jersey. And it came out of Ottawa's the the the rebuilder and the junkyard before they moved. And so the car was really it was a you couldn't do anything with it, right? It was a branded salvage only really the only thing that you could do with it was, well, it's a race car. So I don't know the pieces that were put on were, you know, it was going to be a build, but it was an abandoned build and said, well, there's nothing you can do with it. Except make a race car out of it. I'll take it off your hands and build a new race car. So that's what I did.

So then what goes into that? Obviously, you mentioned the cage. What's the rule set look like for? Is it classes? I'm not exactly sure how SCCA works. So I guess kind of educators on that.

Yeah, so I raced with Sports Car Club of America, SCCA, in Touring 3. And it's a, I'll call it like an OEM Plus class, meaning you can do a lot of suspension tuning, spring rates up to a certain pound rate. You can do sway bars, bushings, upgraded brakes, all of the chassis-oriented stuff. You can't run anything composite as far as a body panel. You can't do Lexan windows. And you really can't do much in way of like performance modifications of the engine, unless you write in the, into the board and you get it approved that look, my car is at a disadvantage. I need a little bit of help. Almost to the point where every car in the class likely has an inlet restrictor too. And so we're open to do anything within the stock ECU. So boost is unlimited, timing is unlimited, we can run 100 octane fuel. That's all fine. We can downpipe exhaust, kind of that stuff. But we're bridled with the inlet restrictor. So there's really only so much that you can do. And so it's more about finding ways to take as much weight out of the car in the right places to your spec weight, getting the chassis set up correctly. And then honestly comes down to driver.

Can you do cooling mods, upgrade intercoolers, things like that?

Some yes, some no. You can do like radiators, auxiliary oil coolers. Mark sevens have an auxiliary radiator down in the front right corner of the bumper. So you can do all of that stuff. Intercoolers, that particular car, I can't run an aftermarket intercooler, but that's not a very hard ask. I just haven't found any heat seeking, heat soaking issues yet to really warrant it yet.

So then at that point, you're also stock turbo on there, which is what? That's the IS, is it 28?

No. No, it's the stock IS 38.

Oh, IS 38. Oh, is it an R?

Yep, that's a Golf R.

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, okay. I'm stuck in GTI brain. Okay, so that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, I think sevens IS 20, right?

Yep.

Yeah, correct.

Are you still running it all-wheel drive then too? Okay.

Yep, it's got wave track, differentials front and rear. Okay. And yeah, it's all-wheel drive. Still haven't tuned it really that far. Haven't done anything with, well, all the ECU is done, but we haven't really gotten into any Haldex programming yet.

Okay.

Car is still, you know, a dozen laps fresh, so we've got a lot of chassis development to do.

So how does that work then? So Brian May had ratified doing all your tuning then?

Yeah, that guy is a wizard. I swear, like that guy works magic. I don't know how he understands these things.

So then was he doing any sort of like, I guess, were you doing any adjustments while you were at the track this past weekend or not quite? You just set it to go out there and see what happens?

No, he optimized it for, we spent, I don't know, an hour and a half or two hours interviewing me about what I'm doing with the car, what I need it to do. And he created an awesome map that is, I'm not going to blow the car up, but it's pretty close to kill mode. And it was just about perfect. Things are rocket ship. I formerly was racing a Mark 5 GTI. I raced with APR Tuning in Grand Am for a while. They backed a amateur car for me, which I still own. The 7 is a completely different beast to the Mark 5. And I thought that was like the pinnacle of Volkswagen engineering forever when that came out. And I raced a 2006 GTI for quite a long time. And I gotta say, the Mark 7 is a completely different animal.

What are some things that you enjoy about it more over a Mark 5?

Well, so far, they're just initial findings, right? I've got such a small amount of time in this car, but the chassis just feels really dynamic. It feels extremely nimble. The power delivery is just, it's different. It comes in a lot faster and a lot harder than the Mark 5. It's got a lot more nannies that you have to get around and eliminate as many computers as you can.

Do any come to mind?

Everything.

Everything.

If you can eliminate every single module of the car, it probably helps you. I mean, we went through and we got rid of the keyless entry. We de-pinned everything from the CAN gateway that didn't make the car run and didn't make the all-wheel drive function.

Was that a tuning nightmare for Brian then?

Like I said, the dude's a wizard, so he downplayed it. He said there was a missing vehicle speed sensor somewhere, I think, because of how much we deleted out of the car. But after he got rid of some of those issues, he's like, yeah, doing just fine.

So that's it. Because this is a similar thing to what we heard from Nick with the Camaro, right? Like, you get rid of this, get rid of that, the whole car just shuts up, just stops working.

Oh, yeah. The car wants to kill you if it doesn't have the systems to be able to protect you. Right? So, right. Yeah.

That's a good way of putting it.

Like, all the way down to on the Volkswagens, the rear headlight, the height adjustment sensor, it's on the rear, like the driver's rear control arm. And if you remove that or unplug it, and you actually go into a high enough G environment, like let's say you're at Daytona or something, the car will sense that and not feel the compression of that sensor and go into limp mode. It'll actually go into throttle cut. And it's like all of the... For a headlight sensor and for the height adjustment. And so it's like, what the heck is going on? So the Volkswagen guys end up, you know, bending it and all that. And I just said, ah, screw it, we're just gonna coat it out. I don't need it. I don't care. So...

And this all comes back to the fact that for your class restriction, you need a factory ECU, correct?

Or... Well, so it gets really nuanced. A car that's a 2018 or newer, we can actually request an aftermarket ECU for a 75-pound weight penalty. My car happens to be a 2017. So I have to convince them 2015 through 2018 are the same, so you should really treat mine like a 2018. Before we met Brian and benefited from his wizardry, I was really aiming to get a SIVAC unit because of the direct injection. I'm very happy that we went to encode on that route because the factory ECU is so capable and when you have people that actually know how to hack it, read the code and optimize it, it just makes life so much easier.

Interesting. Okay.

Did you do any of the CAN deleting stuff before you got it to Brian?

I played around in Rostec quite a bit. I tried to do all the VCDS things that you see on the Internet. But in this project, what I also learned is everything that I already knew. Don't believe anything you read on the Internet because there's always some other piece that people are gatekeeping or not telling you, or they just really don't know what they're talking about. So I just went, well, say this is not possible. Let's just cut the wires out and see what happens. And in the end, it worked, right? The car had like zero hiccups that were not user generated this last weekend. So I'm pretty stoked about that.

Well, and also to be doing, what did you say, 231 at Road America?

233. The track record at Road America is like a 228 or 229, I think at the runoffs last year by a Solstice GXP, actually.

Okay.

With like, the guy's name is Marshall Mast. He is just, he's a wheelman. The dude has, I don't know even how many. I'll say a dozen national championships, but that's probably wrong.

When you say record, is that for like a particular class?

In our class, yeah, national champion. Or just in touring in general. The dude is a very talented driver. We've got a pretty strong contingency of touring through drivers locally as well. So, I've got a little bit of work to do, but napkin math, the clutch working properly so I can get on the gas. Before these mile-long straightaways, I feel like with a little bit of chassis development, we're going to be in the running this year. And it feels pretty good, right? Okay.

Is it like a season sort of deal? Like you have multiple, is it like there's points along the way and stuff like that too then or?

Yep. So, there are divisional points. So, you could be, we're in the central division of SECA and we're in the Lando Lakes region. And there are a couple like local championships for Sendive or for LOL. And that's all points accumulation that help you then qualify for the runoffs championship at the end of the year. Happens to be at Road America this year and next, which is like the greatest place on earth. And so, really, we're looking forward to the early signs of what the car is doing. Looking at the data and going, well, I've got a dozen laps into this car. I think some driver work, a little bit of chassis work, and just fine tuning, tire pressures and stuff set up to really know what this chassis wants. I think all things considered, we're going to be in a good spot.

If you can't give her all the beans out of the apex, that makes a huge difference.

Yeah, yeah.

That's got to be super frustrating because that's when I just want to punch the hell out of it.

You know what it does, though, is it forces you to drive it like a Miata, right? It forces you to go, I have no horsepower. I need to carry as much mid-corner speed as possible, not beyond the brakes, as hard as my brain is telling me to, and just trust that the tires are going to stick. Well, that's great. It forced me to go, oh, let's just go out and put down some laps and not worry about the fact that the clutch has already shot 12 laps and owning the car, right? And you're not going to hurt it any worse. So, but it limits your trap speed at the end of the straightaway. That's like a big drag strip, Road America is.

Yeah. No, and there's something that you said about the momentum car thing. So, again, as I'm waiting to gear up to get into my own little journey with, you know, potentially to Mark 8, which we'll maybe talk about, but I do a lot of sim stuff lately, too. And it's like, I love the momentum cars. It's just a lot more fun to drive.

I'm not sure.

Do you do any sim stuff or not really?

I just started. I got a sim this winter, and I haven't done a lot of official racing. I've more just done a lot of open practice. I'm still very much stuck in the MX-5. I mean, it's a challenging car to make handle really well compared to some of the other cars, at least from what I'm learning in the sim. And I feel like I'm old school enough where it took a very long amount of time to get used to the sim, and I feel like I can translate the two. But all of that said, when I was in the car this last weekend, for the first time after spending a winter in the sim, I can't say enough good things about it.

Really? Okay.

I've got more laps at Road America than anywhere else. I mean, thousands of laps dating back to the late 90s, early 2000s. And even spending hours driving Road America in a different car in the sim, and seeing that little carrot of like the green or the red and going, oh, you messed up, damn it. All right, let's do it again. I found spots that I thought I was driving really well, or I took a good amount of time off of racing, just for work and life and family stuff. The sim helped me break through a lot of the cobwebs as well, where maybe, you know, 10 years ago, I kind of had an inkling of what it was, but now I really know. So I got to say, that's like the best tool I've ever invested in, short of like coaching and a data logger.

Okay, what do you use for a data logger?

We just got an aim. I still don't know how to use it. Again, going back to Brian May and probably some of the guys I race with like Derek Chan trying to learn.

No.

No, I was thinking about your buddy and I.

No, his name is Derek. I don't think that's his last name.

Different Derek. Okay.

Yeah. There's a lot of Derek's, right?

There's a lot of Derek's. Yes, you are right.

So I still need to functionally learn how to use the aim. We got an aim from the guys at Patients. They took care of me. Said you need to get into the 21st century. And I was running an old DL1 back in 2010, which was archaic compared to what these things are now. But anytime I've actually had someone look at my data, show me, okay, this is where you download it. This is how you do it. It's been, it's like the lie detector. I was breaking at the three. No, you were breaking at the four. Like, you know, that kind of stuff is great. But the SIM, it does all of that same stuff. And if you ball the car up, you just hit the reset button and do it again. So like, I'm a convert, 100%.

Okay, I've heard mixed things from people, but it's nice to hear somebody that does it so regularly saying that it's able to convert. So that's pretty cool.

Well, so let's just be clear. I was against SIM driving. I couldn't figure it out. I was getting really pissed every time I would sit inside of someone's SIM. I can't drive it. I get dizzy. What's going on? How do you keep all that perception? And I just finally got worn down enough where someone was just like, my buddy Nick was like, just build one. Trust me, get a good race seat. Don't do motion. Don't do any of that stuff. Just get something that fits you and just put the time in. And he was right. It worked. And I don't think it will make a bad driver good, but I think it will make a driver that understands the dynamics of what you need the car to do better. And it will help someone that understands that learn new tracks really fast. This is just my unbiased, very early observation. Take that or leave it for as you may, but I think when you can look at it like a tool like that, at least is how I'm looking at it, there's nothing but benefits. I think with some of the programs out there, if you treat it like a video game, you probably start to drive like it's a video game. And my guess is that it doesn't translate to the car at that point.

You pull a Doohan. I don't know if you watch Formula One or no.

Enough to be dangerous. No, I haven't catched last weekend.

Well, basically what happened, I think it was in practice or qualifying, like he tried to do a trick that he learned in the sim by keeping the DRS open for just a little longer. And he ended up in a wall. I think it was like a 50G crash or something like that. But again, that'll do it. That goes to where you treat it like a game, right? If you're a young enthusiast learning to wrench or an experienced shop owner already running 7s at the drag strip, the High Performance Academy is a resource where all horsepower junkies can go to expand their skillset. Whether you are learning how to build an engine, tune your ECU, or dial in your suspension setup for some weekend autocross, the HP Academy has the perfect step-by-step course for you. They've provided the listeners of the show with a special 55% off discount code that you can use risk-free on any course you're choosing. Use code Minnox, M-I-N-N-O-X to get 55% off, or click the link in the show description to choose a course of your liking. Go check it out. Let's get back to the show.

Yeah. So I'm very regimented on, I only want to do iRacing, I don't want to do any console stuff. Like, get me in something that is as close to the car that I'm racing, or something that I can learn a different technique with. And then try and look at the laps that you do, look at where you're braking when you're not. Go to YouTube, see what other people are doing and go, okay, does this make sense? Give it a couple of laps and then forget about it, like, if it doesn't do anything good.

Yeah.

So, like, I'll give you an example. I was having a conversation, we have just a chat group with a couple of the T3 racers, and they're all on the sim as well. And I was learning that in iRacing at Road America in turn five, the fast way in the sim is to go all the way to the right of the rumble strips in the braking, and then, you know, widen the track as much as possible, lengthen it out as much as possible. But you would never do that in real life. When you're actually at that track going that speed, you don't, first off, you don't have that much space between the rumbles and the wall to do it. Second thing is as soon as you hit those, you're holding on, like, you're braking traction, all of this stuff, and so that is like a virtual hack, for lack of a better way to describe it, where I think you'd be like, scolded pretty quickly if you tried to do that in real life.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, but I was like, oh, I figured this out, and they're like, don't do this in real life.

Don't ever do it.

Okay, that's fair. Thanks, guys. Just breaking all my hopes and dreams here.

So then iRacing is your game of choice then, or cinema choice?

Yeah.

Okay. So then, okay, well, there's not necessarily a Golf R in iRacing then. So what's your choice? Is it just the Miata so far then?

The TCR car was like my first choice, and then I think it was the Kia. Is it like an Optima that's in it? Front wheel drive, tons of horsepower, huge trap speeds, like that was very similar to my Mark V.

Okay.

But then it's like, well, let's try something that I'm not used to. Let's try a rear wheel drive, you know, roadsterne. So then the Miata is fun.

Yep.

So I'm just kind of enjoying that and taking it seriously, but not so seriously that I'd be like, I'm a sim racer. It's just more like I just want seat time and be on these tracks.

There's something to be said for the seat time. So for example, Nick, who we had on the podcast, he races Porsches, or he just did his second ever weekend with the Porsche, I believe. And he practices on the sims. So he learned Road Atlanta and he was within, I want to say two and a half seconds of like the fast, fast guys.

Cool.

And I'm like, that's pretty cool. Like to be able to learn something and then just go there for the first time ever.

Yeah.

So, okay. So then what's your ambition with this? Is this more so of like a fun thing, competitive thing, competitive urge?

I've been doing this so long that it is just fun right now. Like I want to have some personal goals. Like when I took a pause from racing, I wanted to get back into racing by the time I was 40. I did that. I personally want to win the runoffs by the time I'm 50. Just as, you know, again, just a personal like accomplishment. But I've already done most of what a lot of people, humbly, what a lot of people like aspire or want to do. So, you know, I started racing in an 83 GTI in improved touring. It was just a regional class. Heck, you could see the ground through the floor of the car. It was just kind of a beater. I learned how to work on cars. I learned how to do transmissions and drive axles. And all, like, the really fundamental stuff in that car. I did that for five or six years. And then I built my own car, a Mark III Golf, for the same class. And then I started winning and setting, I think I set, like, three or four track records in that car. And then won championships in that car, which then caught the eye of APR. And I developed a relationship with the tuner, APR. And that was when they were racing Grand Am. And then that's how we built the Mark V, that the fender is up on the wall. And so that was like, oh, nine and oh, eight, oh, nine and ten. And I started racing again in touring three. And back then, it was even more of like a stock OEM plus type class, much more restrictive to what we could do. And the pro drivers that were in Grand Am, they were racing in touring three in their amateur cars as practice for the pro races. So like Chad Gilsinger and John Heinersee, and some of these like HPD or GM drivers were always on grid with us. And they would race like the same car professionally, the Cobalt, S2000s, Accords or Civics. And so I was racing with these pros on a national level at SCCA. And I had set a couple more track records in the Mark 5. I had won two divisional championships in that car. And then I podiumed in 2009 at the Runoffs Championship at Road America. With that, then APR said, Well, we need to put you in our car. And so then I raced professionally in Grand Am, which is now IMSA in the ST class. So a street tuner class, which were all GTIs, Civics, Cobalts, BMW 330s, I think, non-M series, E46s and like V6 Mustangs. That was a lot of fun. That was an absolute blast. But the thing that people don't really think, recognize or talk about if you're not really into racing is like, yeah, okay, you're racing professionally, but you're paying for that seat. Okay, you pay to drive. And so we did a handful of races. We did okay, mid pack most of the time. And it was great, like accomplished my dream. And then the finances of it just are what really drive this sport. And if you can't spend back then 10 to $15,000 per weekend as a driver.

Is that what it came up to?

That's what it was. Because you don't have the seat. No matter what the talent is, if you're faster than someone else. I raced a handful where I led multiple laps and set fastest time of the team. But if you don't have that check or that sponsor behind you, they have to go look. Because it's a business. They have to respectfully go find someone else that can fund the team continuing on. And so that's about when I took a break because it just got out of hand. You know, I'm 26 and...

Well, what's it cost you now, sorry? To, with SCCA and doing what you're doing now, do you know, I was going to ask you that, what's the cost of entry to get in to...

The entry is really not even the expensive part. That's, you know, like 600 bucks for an entry. But then you've got, you know, Hoosier tires or 500 a tire. You go through four of them in a weekend. Consumables, race fuels, $12 a gallon. And then, you know, you have to get there. So diesel fuel, hotels, if you're not camping. If you break the car, all the repairables. So, you know, honestly, you could probably have $5,000 in a club weekend. No problem. And that's, that's not even buying the car, or that's not even renting a seat in someone else's car.

And is that what you were doing with the APR? That was basically renting a seat?

I mean, essentially, they owned, they owned the car. It's just like most, most race teams, that's going to be the case. Like JDC locally here. Those drivers don't own the car. They, they pay or their sponsors pay JDC.

Okay.

Until you have a big name, usually you're a driver that's funding that seat or your sponsors are. And then, you know, the top of the top of the top are the ones actually getting paid.

Yeah, that's a whole different league.

That's, that's like, yeah, you could dream that.

But did you bring any sponsors to the table in that regard then back then or?

I had a, I had a handful of sponsors back then.

Which helped offset that cost.

They helped out a ton, but, you know, they were smaller, some were smaller sponsors, some were businesses that were owned by friends of family and stuff, which was, which was great. GoPro helped me out for a little while, which was, was pretty awesome. But, you know, it just, the economics of it gets so wild. And right around that time is when we had the first economic, or not the first, but like that 2008 through like 12 kind of recession and dip, and the, the discretionary funding all went away. And it was like, and it was almost like a couple of year delay. So the recession came in, sponsorship was still high, and then everything caught up in the economy. And then, okay, well, we're gonna tighten our belts. And it's like, all right, this is a good time to just step back and take a break and just focus on career, family, house, life, all that stuff. But that's a really long winded way of saying, my aspirations, I've been fortunate enough to accomplish so much. And I look back and go, wow, okay, that actually was a ton. So now it's just, I have something to prove for myself that I can be fast, I can enjoy it, and I'm doing it on my terms, right? Back in 2009, 2010, we were pushing so hard. We're like, we got this, we're at the top of the amateur level stuff. If we do really good, we're gonna make it all the way into the pro stuff. And then you're like, oh, all that doesn't matter if you don't have the checks. So it kind of took the fun out of it for a while. And I finally was like, nope, I gotta go back, but we just have to have the fun of what it was when we were first starting out. Cracking jokes, hanging out at the track with friends. Take the prep of the cars and the driving and all of that seriously, but don't take ourselves seriously. You know, let's just be the party of the paddock and the people who are talking to anybody and not quiet and hiding secrets and being stuck up.

Do you have any pointers for somebody who wants to get into this and where they should start?

Yeah, so the thing that I would say is you can take any car within reason on track, provided you've got good tires, meaning that they're safe, they're not bald, they don't need to be super high performance, but you know, an all seasoner better, a decent set of brake pads, and some safety equipment, right? You could take your bone stock Volkswagen, your bone stock Honda Civic, four cylinder Mustang, whatever you have, and just go find opportunities to have fun. And SCCA has their new Track Night, I guess it's not that new, but their Track Night in America program, their time trial program, if you want to get on track. I think Gary Curtis locally has those driving experiences at DCTC. Just take the plunge and just do it, and then don't be afraid to go meet people and ask them questions. And if you take the time to be friendly and not shy, and you actually listen to the feedback that people give you, you're going to find that it's a pretty welcoming community, and the barrier of entry can be really achievable. If you want to get into more serious motorsports or door-to-door racing, there's a few more steps around that, and then you have to really be honest with yourself about the running costs. Okay, an entry fee is X, but it's going to take these three other expenses that no one talks about. Like, you know, how much is fuel? What happens if you break the car? Can you afford that? And you just have to be honest, like, if I get into this, can I get myself out? Or is it worth it? And I've seen a lot of people try to get into this, and then they don't realize that component of it, and it's a really short-lived, and you see them one year, and then you don't ever see them again. So, just being honest about what is fun, at what level can you have fun, and what you're comfortable with, and then not letting those things get in the way of experiencing at any level. Like I said, take your car out, get a helmet, and just go drive on the track, and enjoy performance driving. That's what it's all about, right?

That's a good way of putting it. Like defining how serious do you want to get, is kind of what you're aiming for.

But being honest about yourself, how serious you want to get, and what work you need to put in to achieve that, because you don't get the results from the work you don't do, right?

Right.

And so, what can you follow through on?

So then, to touch on the work thing actually, this is a question I had earlier. How much are you doing yourself nowadays? How much are you getting help from? And I guess, has that changed over the last, let's call it 15 years?

It ebbs and flows, honestly. I've got the best friends in the world. I will say right now, if it wasn't for my buddy Danny, Frank and Pete, I couldn't do it. I could not do it. I do a lot of the work myself as much as possible, but maybe Frank in particular, he has lifted a lot to help with this car, especially with new job. I'm extremely busy. I'm traveling all the time, and he's really stepped up, and that has made it possible. Fabrication-wise, I like to build stuff, but I'm not a roll cage builder, and so the fact that Brian and Gary at Patience built my roll cage, I'm like super lucky and fortunate. I don't deserve it. It's that nice. And so I would say racing, even at an amateur level, is not an individual sport. It is 100% a team sport, and especially at the track, right? Like, yeah, I'm in the car driving it, but what about the hours of having to adjust alignments, making sure everything's torqued, the brakes are bled, or changing tires, all that. Like, that becomes really cumbersome on your own, so.

Well, when you had said, like, your car is still in the trailer, and you were at Road America, what, two weeks ago, week ago?

No, this week, last weekend.

Oh, last weekend, okay.

Like, three days ago.

Yeah, okay, so, but yeah, but when you said that, I was like, I hear that for sure, because a weekend of racing is a lot of work. And like, and when I get home, I'm like, truck's still hooked to the trailer, I just park it and get the hell out of it. I don't even want to look at that for a couple of days.

Yep.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, and we have a laundry list of things that we need to fix. And so it's like, well, all right, well, our first official race of the year is at Blackhawk Farms, May 2nd, 3rd, 4th. We gotta put a new clutch in the car. Well, all right, let's get one on order. So that's inbound. We've already got it scheduled when we're gonna take it apart and do it. But, you know, that turns into a full day's worth of work, because then you go through and nut and bolt the rest of the car. You check that there's no other issues that are, you know, lurking in the background that we didn't see. You probably got, you know, two full days worth of prep work after a race, getting ready for the next one. And the car didn't even really break, right? I mean, yes, we have some repair work to do, but we didn't crash, we didn't blow anything up. So, yeah, it's, you got to be dedicated. So I'm super fortunate. I could not do it without my friends. And I'm not a super rich guy, so I can't hire it all out to, you know, arrive and drive or have a, you know, show up and have a shop, take care of it all. So it really is a fun grassroots friend initiative.

Super rich is different than mega rich, and he's a mega rich category. Oh. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, I'm kidding, but.

I fooled you really well, then, didn't I?

Yes, I see him hiding Fiji waters back there.

Yeah.

He's racing a Volkswagen. Come on now, let's pump the brakes here.

Would you like a Buble?

Those are good, by the way.

I tried them for the first time last year, earlier this year.

They're pretty good. I'm more of a liquid death guy now.

I tried it once or twice so far.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if the marketing got me or if I just really like it.

Yeah.

But I'm definitely a liquid, a tall boy, a liquid death person.

But you mentioned crashing a couple of times. Have you had any crazy, scary crashes?

Yeah. I've crashed three times. Three times that have caused damage to the car. Two that were scary. One that was like not a big deal when you look back at it. So in 2011, I was racing in the rain. I was racing against another Volkswagen. We were in the lead at the June Sprints at Road America. So it was raining and I got punted right before the break zone into turn one. Funny story, it was actually the first time that I had ever worn a Hans device. So go figure, I crash the first weekend I have.

You got to test it, right?

Yeah, right, yeah, come on. So I get punted into turn one.

On Road America.

At Road America. She's right before the break zone. I mean, he just came into me and I went counterclockwise. The corner is clockwise, by the way. And crunched the back of the car. And that one hurt pretty bad. I was able to limp the car back. Flat toe the car back to the paddock, and that took me out for the rest of the season at that point.

Well, you must have been going pretty fast there, too, if you're going into turn one.

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't tell you how fast I was going. I mean, well over 100 miles an hour into a concrete wall is not fun anyway you look at it. So that was in that car. When I first started racing with Skip Barber in the Formula Dodge cars, I was coming up on lapped traffic into Canada Corner, go figure, another corner at the end of a really long straightaway. And the guy got squirrely in front of me and I was, it was a mixture of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and still being really green to racing. I was still like the first year I was doing it and I probably could have found a way to avoid it if I saw what the guy was erratically driving. But he spun in front of me and we collided. And then that car actually went over me. And so that was like, it's probably a little bit more traumatic than it was actually bad, but because those cars are like designed to explode to take any impact or as much impact away from me as possible. That spooked me. I got back in another car that weekend and finished out the weekend, but that was like the end of me wanting to race anything with open wheels. So that was a bad crash. And then actually this last October, I crashed at Blackhawk Farms and it was just, it was a bonehead. It was a dumb move, cold brain, cold track, cold tires. And I just went off and spun into the wall. And that's actually why that fender is no longer in the car, right? That's why that fender is no longer on the car. But again, if we go back to like help and friends. So Danny and Frank got the zip ties, the tech screws and everything back together. And later that day, we were back on grid and I lapped the entire field except for second place in my class. And so like arguably one of the best races of the season, and we got back on. And so that was kind of a fun moment.

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And we were like 2 pounds underweight, so we got, unfortunately, we got disqualified. It was so bad. We got off track, we were like super high, like, yeah, that's awesome. Like all the corner workers and the stewards were like, we saw that car like 4 hours ago on the wall, we thought you were done. The medic team that had, you know, anytime you crash, you have to go get checked out. Like, right. Are you dizzy? Are you going to, are you can cost? Are you going to pass out? Did you break anything? And everyone's like, no way, you just did that. And then we're 2 pounds underweight.

Should have had them give you 2 pounds of fluids.

They, I, I will tell you this right now, that the tech inspectors and the stewards did everything they could to help us meet weight. Like they, they closed all the doors in the, in the tech barn. So there was no wind. They kept feeding me bottles of water. They're like, just keep drinking. I'm like, all right, let's keep drinking. I think I drink like 7 bottles, little bottles of water in like a 20 minute period. And then they're like, all right, we're going to push the car out through the gravel to do a U turn, nudge, nudge, nudge. And then we're going to put the car on the scales, the other direction, because they have to verify if direction of the vehicle changes how the scales are eating. And then they're like, maybe that will be enough clag that you're picking up off the gravel road to get you overweight. I mean, they did everything they could and we were still two pounds light. And I was just like, whatever. It was fun. It was great. I don't even care. I don't, it's not about the trophy. It's like, I can tell this story now. And you're just like, from like the lowest of the low to like, oh yeah, we just did really good.

So. So, okay. As me and Dan are trying to get into this world a little bit more, depending on how the next few months go again, I'm more on the, I'm on the optimist side, right? All right. Life hasn't destroyed me yet for the most part. What is, what is some advice you can give to somebody that wants to start going to like, let's say future SCCA events, the grid life. The life of the world, Optimo and Dan's case.

Yeah. As a driver or just in general?

Because this is a driver, I guess, how did you develop the skill set in order to be at a competitive level?

So I went to skip Barbara Ray School when I was in high school. And my uncle, my late uncle saw a spark in my eye and he's like, and he didn't have kids. And so I could get into a whole story about the trips that he took each of my cousins or I on just as like our experience with Uncle Dick. He took me to race car school and he did it as well. And he saw the spark. I was trained. I was fast. The coaches said, get this kid a race car because he's got a natural talent. And then from there, it was just repetition and see time and see time and see time. And you're going to fail a lot. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to be slow at first, but you put the work in and you'll get faster. And, and, and just the longer having fun, right? That's all that matters. You can be dead last and still having fun. And it's a success. But the advice that I have, I guess, before you dive in to driving at these races, like go spend time, go meet teams or just meet people and go, what's involved in this? Like if you want to go to grid life, find, you know, drivers that you can meet online on Instagram, on Facebook groups, whatever, and say, hey, can I come, can I help you out for a weekend? Like I don't want to get in your way, but maybe just go get the fuel. Maybe fill the car up. Maybe you're on radio listening, and you're experiencing everything out of the car, because you get to see that experience that the drivers just inherently don't have because they're on track. I think that's a really good way to get calibrated on what does it take. And then start to do research. Like what type of car do you have? What classes or sanctioning bodies have groups that you can run in? And then set some goals and go, okay, I have this GTI. It's going to be a street car, so time trial is going to be what I do, not wheel to wheel because it's not a full cage. And then look at what the classes allow, modifications, all of that. Join the Facebook groups around those classes. There's so many different groups within SCCA. I'm sure there are with Gridlife as well. Get to see what people in those classes are doing. Ask all of the questions. Be annoying. Be that guy or gal that's like asking 10,000 questions, but actually listen to the advice that you get so people keep giving you advice.

That's the second time you brought that up, by the way. That's a huge thing I've learned as I've done this podcast, is people are so happy to give you information, but they get so angry when you just don't listen to them.

Yeah. Yeah, listen before you speak and then verify if it's true or not. And then just go do it. And then just take the first step, grab the wheel and have fun. I mean, that's at the root of it really all you can do. But I am a real firm believer of getting a sense of what it takes and what people's process is. And every team or individual has a different process. But really getting to know what it's like in that sanctioning body or what it's really like at the event, not as a spectator, but as a support member. Because then you really get to see the work and you really start to respect the time investment and the effort it takes to really do these things. And I think we need to can grasp that. It prepares you better on your mentality of going into this, right? You know that if you want to lose 50 pounds, you need to do these things, eat this way, go to the gym, et cetera. And then here's the results that you're going to end up getting. If you want to drive a race car and you want these certain results, you have to know all the pieces of that equation to get the answer that you're looking for. And that's an easy way to really make friends and build a community around it that then will also support you and help you on that journey.

Okay. You got me all excited for this thing. We've met a lot of really cool people on this journey that unfortunately gives us a lot of ideas, which is difficult, but yeah, that's exciting. Where did you... It's kind of a two-part question. Did you have any mentors along the way?

I had lots of people I looked up to, but I would say I didn't have a lot of race car mentors or like driver mentors. And that's maybe a regret that I would have is not developing, not taking some of the advice that I'm giving. I'm probably giving you this advice because I learned it the hard way probably. But it would have been pretty cool to have a mentor or like a true coach that could work with me on this journey. I think back when I was starting out, mentors have always been around, but I think the true coaches or the accessibility of coaches nowadays is a lot greater than what it was back then. And it was a bigger deal and probably a much bigger investment to get a bonafide true coach than what it is now. Like you can log on to Blaze, pay the fee, and you can get Dionne VanMulkie as your coach, and very high level drivers as your coach. Technology and the Internet has done a really great thing in that way. Or even like look at what is his name, Swellio. It used to be the driver's checklist. I think he's changed the coaching to his name now that he's racing in IMSA. But all of this sim coaching as well is right at your fingertips. And so, no, I didn't have any true mentors that I benefited from. Lots of people supporting me, lots of friends that have been with me the entire journey, that I could maybe say had some mentorship traits and attributes. But more I would look up to people and aspire to accomplish what those folks were doing.

Yeah, that makes sense. To go back to the sim side of things, what would you go with for a sim? Like a Logitech or something?

No, I've got like a hodgepodge of things. I've got a Fanatec. I think it's a club sport or a CSL wheel. I've got the club sport, the inverted, the hanging pedals.

Okay, those are cool.

Because that's what all my Volkswagens have. And then I forget what the chassis is. It's like a SimLogic chassis or SimMagic?

SimMagic.

Yeah.

SimMagic wouldn't be the chassis itself.

I got it from Micro Center on Black Friday.

I don't know what you're talking about.

And it was like the Tony Kinnon, like black and orange limited edition one.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what the name was. It wasn't SimMagic, but SimLabs.

SimLabs, thank you. I have a SimLabs chassis. See, this is how green I am and new I am to all this stuff that I bought enough stuff or borrowed a few components to get up and running. I got a containment seat.

What did you get for a seat?

It's an old Cobra rally seat. Okay. And then I got a curved monitor.

Just a single big one.

Yeah, like a single big one. Yeah. And it's awesome. It does everything I want it to. I went into Micro Center and again, you picked this up when I'm talking about my data logger. I went in and was like, I know nothing about computers, except how to check my email. What do I need to do this? And they're like, oh yeah, we need this PC and this and this. I'm like, sold. Let's go.

That's basically how I did it too.

We were so clueless when we were coming back. What was the PRI when we met Kamil?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Except I built my PC, but I had to put everything in the cart. Literally a guy walks around with you and starts piling s*** in your cart.

That's great service.

Yeah.

Well, that's the thing. When I was trying to put together a list for another friend of mine, I'm like, oh man, what do you need? It's okay. You need a chassis, then you need the actual base. We had to reverse-engine because we did a podcast with a guy who runs a sim studio in Chicago. And I had to go back and listen to the episode because I blackout during episodes. I learn everything after the fact. And I'm just going back and I'm like, all right, we need this, this, and this. And I think Dan and I both had sins within like what? Three, four months?

Yeah.

Something like that. It takes forever when you order stuff.

It was right around Black Friday, so I spent a lot of money on sales and deals.

No, it was right after.

Remember, it's not how much he spent, it's how much he saved.

Yes.

That's Black Friday, right? Yes. You're talking to the red guy.

That's all Dan.

He's like, man, I got this for 80 percent off. The guy just gave it away.

Yeah. Okay.

Well, we could certainly come back to some of the track stuff, but touch on your SEMA build a little bit too, because you do have this beautiful car behind you. Tell us a little bit about that.

Oh yeah. So this is a 1978 Volkswagen Rabbit that I backdated to all the nerdy 1975 only stuff or what they're known as swallowtails. I spent the better part of 11 years building this, and three different engines over the life of the build. And again, a whole lot of help from friends and some pretty generous people to help get it done. I built it as if Singer built a Volkswagen. So how would Singer do it? And tried to carry that theme all the way through, but then really have a touch of like motor sports, technology or build into it as well. So it's a little bit confused, but in all in all, pretty fun and cool. So, you know, it's got like a, it's got what's called an Odinger 16 valve. And so in the early 80s and late 70s, Odinger, the tuner, sand cast, dual overhead cam cylinder heads. And they made an engine conversion kit. So you could take your 1.6 or 1.8 single overhead cam, counter flow Volkswagen, and do a cross flow 16 valve conversion to it. Those kits cost as much as the car did back in that day. And they, I think they made maybe 900 of those engines. I could be very mistaken. It's a little fuzzy, but they're super rare. So I am lucky enough to have one of those engines at a shop in Oregon called Tectonics Tuning. They're like the legendary Volkswagen tuners of the old school world. Colin, the owner, built that engine for me, and it's a dry sump, two liter. So it's pretty cool. It's on individual throttle bodies and the outside of the cylinder head, and everything's all hand polished and beautiful. What else? Yeah, it's just lots of blood, sweat and tears went into this, but then I'm close friends with the guys at WaveTrac Differentials, largely because of this car. This was in their booth in 2021, where it received best European import from Hemmings Motor News. And I think we shot the cover article for Performance VW at that show, just outside of Fremont Avenue. So that was a lot of fun too. But yeah, this has been my pride, my joy and what has taken my energy when I'm not doing anything with race cars.

Do you get anything out of that other than like clout or being able to show off something you've built when you, you know, somebody asks you to put the car in a booth, it's just more of an honor. You say you've just been shot for like magazine type stuff. Do you get paid for any of that kind of stuff?

You don't get paid for any of it. But when you, so when you, when you build a car for SEMA, the first thing that you have to realize is that SEMA is a trade show, right? So you have to be able to highlight the products of the manufacturer that you get put into their booth. And then what you do with it is really up to you. And so, even though you're not get necessarily getting paid to put a car in, unless you're some huge Instagram or social media personality, that's how you can get sponsors. Like, okay, my car is going to be in this booth, and I have this media plan, this deck, and here's what I can provide you, the brand, not what can you give me, but what can I add value to you in exchange for product or in exchange for a discount or whatever. And so, the real savvy builders use the opportunity to get into SEMA as a platform to build their portfolio or help accomplish the build of the vehicle. And it's all just sales and marketing at that point. And the people that are good at it can actually get quite far because everyone's watching SEMA from across the world. And if you time it right and you have the right attitude and something that's unique and different, you can do quite well. But really, I paid my way to get there. They gave me a differential, of course, for free. That was what they provided in the space, which was bigger than anything. But to be completely honest, I wouldn't be in my role at Koni if that car didn't make it to SEMA. My colleague Alan, at the time, who's also a Volkswagen nut, his coworker was like, Alan, you gotta go see this Volkswagen two aisles down and meet the guy. He used to race for APR and Alan also races Volkswagens. And Alan ran up and found me after the show. He's like, we gotta talk Volkswagens. We gotta see this. And we became quick friends, right? Just common bond. And a couple years later, I saw on his Facebook or LinkedIn one of the two. He's like, I normally don't cross work and personal, but we're looking for a marketing manager at Koni. And I like messaged him right away. And next thing you know, I'm working at Koni. So it's kind of those who you know, what you know, and those weird decisions in life seem to always lead to something else. So I honestly have this car probably to thank for where I'm at right now.

What were you doing before that? Were you doing some automotive related as well?

No, I spent my entire working career prior to that in the bicycle industry.

That explains the bikes.

Got it.

So I worked in bike shops as a mechanic, as a service manager, and then-

Oh, as in like motorcycles or-

Bicycles.

Bicycles.

Okay, just want to make sure. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, bicycles. And then after college, I went to a local company called Quality Bicycle Products. It's a distributor. And then also, it's like the turn 14 of the bicycle world.

Okay.

But also, they own a handful of bike brands and accessory brands. And I ended up running a trade school and our demo program and our events team at the end of my career in the bicycle world. And then it's like, I want to go play with cars. And so, Koni came up, it was a dream job at a dream company that I was always very, very familiar with and had been running their products. That's kind of long stuff too. So, it's just pretty cool.

So, how long have you been there now? Like what, a year, two years?

Just over a year. So, it was a year in February.

Okay. Oh, okay. I think we actually texted about that when Charlie first connected us.

Yeah.

Okay. So, you said you were running their products for a while. So, then is that all that you have on your current race car then?

My current race car, unfortunately, I had started building it before I worked at Koni.

Okay.

And a close friend of mine, Pete, actually owns a company called 529 Innovations, and he specializes in MQB platform, Volkswagens and Audis. He happens to have a suspension that's pretty capable, pretty darn capable. I guess that's an understatement. The other thing is, at Koni, we just don't have a true race damper for a Volkswagen anymore.

Okay.

We have an awesome coilover that, this isn't going to turn into a commercial, I promise. We have a super awesome coilover that's very race capable, but it's like that track day special type of coilover, and it's a single rebound adjustment, and I've got four-way like monotube race dampers on this car. So, and our kit came out a year after I had already bought these.

Right. Okay.

So, it kind of breaks my heart. I really wish we still had the hardcore motorsport stuff in the lineup. I just keep telling myself, the better I do my job on the marketing side of it, the closer that might be a reality again. But I do have Koni race stampers on the Mark 5. That one's got Koni yellows with coilovers on it, and my Rally Golf has Koni's for it as well. So, I'm pretty well supporting the brand.

Right. It's okay if one doesn't get it sort of deal.

Yeah. And I'm supporting like a really good friend too.

Yeah. There's that as well.

Or I should say he's supporting me.

As I've known about them for a long time, they've been big in the Mustang world for a long, long time. In the 80s, Mustang SVOs came with Koni's on them.

They did.

Yeah.

Even some of the earlier cars too. Yeah.

Well, I think when I talked to Charlie, they were involved in the Ford GT program too, way back, like the Mark I, I believe.

Yep. So we, Charlie, Dailin and I interviewed one of the guys from Riley, which is Kelly Moss Motors as well at PRI this year. And they had one of the recreations with our original, I think it's like 28, it's like 28 series dampers that they had restored. And then PSI, Performance Shock Incorporated and Sonoma actually printed like exact replicas of the original stickers. The car was gorgeous. I absolutely fell in love with it. And I'm a nut for the old historic stuff. Yeah, just like, I mean, Koni Challenge stuff, Formula 1 stuff. We are on Ferrari all the way until the dampers started becoming electronics. So there's like deep rooted heritage there. And I knew about the Mustang popularity, but I ended up going to Mustang Week in Myrtle Beach this last summer. And I was just floored by how many people were like, I've got Koni's on my Mustang. Oh, I've got Koni's on my Mustang. It's like, all right, I like you guys. And so we sponsored what's called Retro Meat.

Yeah, I have a Retro Meat t-shirt. So I go to Mustang Week. I didn't go last year, I went the year before.

All right, we got to go this year. So there's a Retro Meat banner on the wall right behind you. So Harris Liu is a Retro Meat's, I would call him a friend now. And he kind of indoctrinated me into the Mustang world to the point where I was texting my fiance, we need to get a Calypso green Fox body. And I need to build a Mustang, like I built my Volkswagen. And she's like, no. Sell the Volkswagen, you can get another car, but no.

That's not how the whole car thing works, you keep them forever.

I don't know, I think this one, everything's got a number, but this one, this one almost killed me. So I think this one might be here forever.

Like, as in literally almost killed you or?

Uh, emotionally and mentally, just exhausted, yeah, no. No, this one took years off my life putting together. I met some of my best friends in the world because of this car, but I really question if I want to do another show car build ever again after this.

What's kind of two worlds you're in? You get the race car and the show car, you don't see that crossover often, almost never.

No, they don't get along very well because they both take exorbitant amount of money and a ton of attention. So there's a reason why this hasn't driven more than 180 miles since SEMA 2021.

Oh, wow. So, okay, my question to that then, do you ever see yourself driving it around more?

Yeah, this is the year. I'm at the point where it's like, it's not a museum piece on a wall, like it needs to be driven. And even just to keep it in good shape, like I don't want things to dry rot. I want belts and hoses to stay supple, like you gotta drive things in order to keep them that way. So, I'm gonna put some miles on it.

Do you have PPF on it?

Nope, not yet.

That's on the agenda?

That's on the agenda as well.

Who are you, I'm just curious, do you have a go-to guy yet, or anybody that's been referred to you?

I love the guys at Creative Color, and I think they just started doing it. So, they're kind of my go-to. They did all the wraps on my race car, and they designed a new race suit that I have on order, and then they wrapped my helmet. So, yeah, those guys are rad. They do, well, they make cool s***, I think, just like their sign says. So, and I trust them, right?

Right.

I'm a nervous wreck when this goes anywhere that I'm not around, so it's like, I know that this could be in their shop, and they'd probably be like tiptoeing around it, and like looking at it, but take care of it.

Who did the paint?

A shop called Vessios in Rogers. They knocked it out of the park. They did a really good job.

It looks great.

Top Stitch did the upholstery.

That's what we'll ask next. Yeah, that's who the patience guys keep recommending to us, I think. We got to have an upholstery guy on here.

Shawn's a good guy. He's good at conversation. I think he'd be a good guest for you.

Yeah. I always have my list and I forget to look at it. That's my problem. Because obviously, we travel the country doing this, which is really cool. But we try to get our fair share of local people. Like for example, Dan somewhat knows this. We're going to have somebody that's in the monster truck world on next. It's like, well, it's like you heard the intro, man of many automotive aspirations. We really do just love everything. Like, oh, surprise, we might have a Drift Guy down in North Carolina next month too. We'll see what happens. But just a combination of things. But it is cool to see who's around here locally. So, okay, Patience, Creative Color. Anybody else kind of locally that's kind of been involved? Ratified, I guess, with Brian May.

Yep, Ratified, Tune the Car. Who else?

Let's go look at the stickers.

Who else has been involved? I mean, I love the people over at Lickomale. They're super awesome. That's the lion's share of it. Locally though, yeah, it's Patience, it's Creative Color, it's Ratified for this particular car.

Okay. And just like in general, just like you mentioned, all your friends that come in and help were needed.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Where do you find these friends? Because I don't have any that help me do s***.

You just yell at us. You just expect we know everything.

I don't know. I just got lucky. You know, I've probably invested enough time over the years just helping other people with stuff and it comes around. The universe will guide you where it needs to guide you, and karma is real. It will be a b**** or it will pay you in spades. And so I think keeping the car gods happy is probably a good thing.

The car gods. I'm not even going to ask that one on camera. Like, all right, what's an example of karma getting you?

But, oh no, I could tell you that, yeah.

Oh, okay. Something sounds fresh.

It was like eight years or nine years since I had been at Blackhawk Farms. And so that fender, I was watching Andy Smedegard's videos, the ASM track guides, like, oh, I've got tons of laps at Blackhawk, but let's do a refresher. And he's like, oh yeah, 300 horsepower, 3000 pound BMW. Here's my track guide. I'm like, cool, I've got a 3000 pound, 300 horsepower Volkswagen. Difference is the weight bias is completely wrong and the wheels are driven by the wrong wheels. He's like, oh yeah, this is just a nice little lift and you should be able to get through it, no problem. I'm like, oh yeah, Andy Smedegard, like blah, blah, blah. I should know better than to listen to the internet. Like, you know, so cold tires, cold brain, cold judgment, straight into the wall. It's like, okay.

Okay. Perfect. So you said that was the Mark V, correct?

Yep.

Okay. So that was front wheel drive on like this one, which is all wheel, correct?

Correct. Yeah.

So, okay. Teach me a little bit about this. Cause again, I got a front wheel drive car and that's my intention, right? To drive that. How does that driving style differ? Now, granted, I'm not gonna be fast enough to even experience that right out of the gate, but how do you drive it differently?

Than the all wheel drive?

Than the all wheel drive.

You know, I'm still learning that. I've only got 12 laps in an all wheel drive car, so. True. Okay. From what... Little experience I have, you really have to commit to getting on gas and getting the car to rotate beforehand with the all wheel drive car, because with the wave tracks, the harder you push it, the harder they grip. And an all wheel drive car tends to want to, my understanding is, like, push outward more than a front wheel drive or a rear wheel drive car. And so, where a rear wheel drive car, there's a couple, a couple schools of thought out there. You can set it up like a rear wheel drive car and go light spring in the back, really egregiously heavy spring in the front, and just really try to get the car to rotate early on the gas. Or you could go lighter spring in the front, really heavy spring in the rear, and make it at turn-in nice and snappy. But then what happens there is you get an unstable vehicle at apex or on longer sweeping corners, because the mechanical grip is just lower because it becomes so hard. And so it depends on really how you want, how you feel more comfortable, right? I traditionally subscribe to the throw as much spring and sway bar on the back of the car, and make sure that the back tires are just roller skates, holding the vehicle up and let everything happen with the front end. That's maybe a little bit more of a, are like a brute force, less elegant way of driving, where I'm finding that you probably have to be a little bit more elegant with this car to make it fast, and you're dancing a little bit more.

Okay.

But that's after 12 laps. I'll report back after a season.

Right.

We've had a couple of all wheel drive guys tell us, it's two times now we've had people tell us that when you lose it with an all wheel drive car, there's really no saving it. It's way more unnerving than what you think you can kind of regain with a rear wheel.

Great that that's in the drag racing world.

True.

I've heard the same on the road racing world, where there's no mediocre limping off the track. It is a spectacular fail in snap overspin. So I'm not looking forward to that moment that I get to experience, but so I'm told and don't lift, stay in. I guess when I say like the harder you push the car, the harder the wave tracks go. What I have been warned in that spirit is like, don't lift. Don't lift because you'll just snap spin. So it's like, okay, I need to verify that, but I've heard similar stories.

Okay.

So then if we're going off of like third-hand accounts, if it's a case of don't lift, then it's what do you do if you don't lift?

Cross your fingers and stay committed. I don't. Well, the first thing that they teach you at Skip Barber kind of in that realm is like when you go off, commit. As soon as you hesitate or second guess, that's when bad things happen.

Yeah.

But if you stay committed, unless you're going straight out the wall, but if you make a decision, you commit to it, you could possibly, like at the kink at Road America, I've gone off. If you keep the car straight and you don't make huge movements, you could probably butt-pucker your way back onto the track and keep the car straight. Same at turn two at Brainerd as an example. So I think there's a lot to say about that. Where what do you do? You just, you commit and make the best of it that you can. And otherwise, you know, the other thing is like clutch in, full brakes, try to stop the car as fast as possible. Don't close your eyes. Don't do this.

Let Jesus take the wheel.

Yeah, that's the worst thing that you could do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also don't try and be a hero, right? Don't be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna throttle in, I'm gonna drift out of this corner, you know, nine out of 10 times, you're probably gonna lose it. You're gonna hit the wall harder or someone else.

I always experiment in corners that don't have an immediate wall.

Yeah.

Right? So I've gone off corners before, but I don't play around in the ones that have a wall immediately after the turn.

Why not?

Yeah. Right.

I can't remember. I think it was last year, my friend Piero sent me a crash at Road America, and I think they went into the wall at full 160 or 140 or whatever it was, and then it just immediate ball of flames.

That's scary.

And they're showing the video of them getting out and just realizing what happened, but that's super scary. Yeah.

The wall with all the black marks on it, just be a little more cautious near that one.

Yeah.

Is that from a Mustang?

Well, it's just anyway, like at the Kink. You know, the Kink's got that, it's basically war paint all over that bad boy.

Yeah. Like he let me drive his GT 500 at Brainerd. What was it last year? Yeah. When you had your panic attack about me driving it. Yeah. So, and I wanted corners. I was coming in way too hot and I'm like, oh, and that was my first time like experiencing locking up, like in looking straight at a wall. I'm like, oh, this is unnerving. So, learned a lot of things since then.

Speaking of the Kink, I remember when the NC Miata first came out, I don't know what MX5 Cup Series it was, but there was BSI Racing had, I think they're out of Florida. They had brought up like five or six NC Miata's to race in practice for like a pro race the next weekend or something. And this gal was racing and her steering wheel, quick release, popped off in the kink. And I was maybe six or seven cars behind her at the time. And it was like, it was pretty scary. It was super hairy. The car turned left, hit the wall, and then flipped and then spun like a top down the kettlebacks. And everyone, the red flag, everyone stopped or got out of the way. And she was fine, but the car just, the car got beat up. But think, just something simple like a quick release wasn't engaged all the way. And she either like death gripped the wheel or something or something happened where it went, pink.

Well, there's a new fear unlocked now every time if I get in a car with a quick release.

Yeah, I know you talk about Jesus take the wheel.

It's like, give it back, give it back.

So that's that I've seen that happen at the kink. And that's that's like, okay, that's, that's a little nerve wracking. But then that same year must have been like 09, because that was the, I was in the Mark five, that runoffs, I was racing for third, and it was a little wet. And we were actually going front inside, right wheel off at Apex, because there was like this nice little groove that had worn in. And so the fast line is we could actually stay on the gas longer by like ditch hooking, essentially go pink and like keep going through. And I don't think the corner workers liked that. I certainly don't think that Aaron nowadays has the courage to do that anymore, but young and dumb Aaron that saw red in a podium in my grass was like, oh yeah, this is a good, he did it, why can't I do it? And off we go. So it's funny how you see that in June and then in September, you're like, yeah, what happened? Oh yeah, whatever, like, let's do this stupid thing on the racetrack.

Like that NASCAR driver that put himself into the wall in that corner.

Yeah, talk about like video game driving, right?

Yeah.

Didn't they make a rule like that is now written in that you cannot do that anymore?

Yeah, I think, is it NASCAR or are there certain motorsports where like, they'll literally put your name next to the rule, like you're the reason that this rule exists now?

I kind of appreciate that, you know, as a competitor and like you're trusting, I mean, your life is in the hands of your competitors, making as sound of decisions as possible in certain situations, right? Especially if you're like, if you're bump drafting, I'm driving through the car in front of me's windshield.

Yeah.

Let's hope the guy in front of me or gal in front of me is like, on board and not going to do something stupid or if I'm the person in front, let's hope in the car and back is going to stop at a reasonable time where I can slow down and they're not going to push me off the track intentionally. And yeah, so I could see you're writing, you're putting someone's name next to a role change or something that shame might calm some people down.

I think it's more being a legend in some cases.

I mean, that's- In that case.

Like you're forever in there. It depends on the rule, I guess.

Yeah.

Okay. What are some of the- Do you have any track that comes to mind that's just kind of like bucket list that you've done over the years? Obviously, Road America is like a home track for you.

Yeah. Road America is a home track. Bucket list that I've- Wait. Raced or that I want to race? I guess both. I really want to race at CODA. I have not done that. That's bucket list. Like change my schedule for the year worthy. Not a bucket list, but one that's really attractive to me is Ozarks. It's close. There's always a race sometime in an open part of my season where that seems fun. 25 hours is going there this year.

Oh, cool.

I don't know how serious it's going to get, but a couple of us have been talking about putting a 25-hour team together in the golf. So more to come on that if I can actually make it happen or if I have the energy to actually make it happen.

What's that consist of though to do something like that? To 25-hour team?

Yeah, like four to six drivers and entry fee and lots of tires and consumables.

Is it just one car?

Yes, it's just one car.

Really? Okay.

Yeah.

The endurance racing really intrigues me. I want to do one once just to see what that's like.

Yeah. I've only done three-hour races, Grand Am, IMSA, where three hours with two drivers. So I would like to see what a 24 or 25-hour race is. So that type of race is a bucket list for me.

And they're hosting that at Ozarks.

Yeah. That's going to be cool. What was it? Was it at Willow Springs before? But Singer bought that track now, so that's pretty cool.

Oh, really? Is that the one that they were selling and trying to shut down? I'm not sure that would sell earlier this last year.

Yeah. Singer just saved it, and they're like a majority shareholder or something. I didn't read too much news. I just saw a couple of highlights, which is great. Save more racetracks. It's what we need. But other bucket list stuff, that's hard to say. Maybe go more international. Like it'd be cool to race at like Spa. I've driven Nurburgring four times. So that's a great experience. Everybody traveling in Europe should take just a day or two to go on the ring and buy a ring card. I've raced at Watkins Glen, so that's already done. I've raced at Lime Rock, Road Atlanta. You know, Barber Motorsports Park would be fun. I've actually never raced at VIR. I've been there a bunch of times, but I've never actually raced there. In reality, I've played plenty on the sim.

That's my favorite track on the sim.

Yeah, it's the right amount of like, hairy hold on and just commit and technical agility. I think that track is, I love old school tracks that have real consequences. I don't know. That's just, it's how I grew up racing and the tracks I grew up on. So I'm always attracted to those. I think VIR would be one that I'll probably race over the next couple of years. Hopefully the run-offs goes back to VIR and I could just make that my excuse to go there. Indy, SCCA doesn't run at Indy except if the championship race is there. So that would be fun to go race the road course at Indy. And then I've raced Mid-Ohio. So that's already been fun. So like, I feel like I've hit a lot of the major.

Yeah, those are a lot of the big ones.

The big ones that I would aspire to.

Are any of those, does any one of those kind of have like a like a favorite memory to it? Are any of those like, like Mid-Ohio is a pretty sweet one, for example. Like which of those kind of holds the?

So Lime Rock was my first professional race ever. Okay. And it was the first rate professional race that I had actually led laps at. So that was, that's always going to hold like a special, just like sentimental memory there. I also met Randy Popes for the first time there. And he was always kind of like, you know, those guys that you look up to that you'd like aspire to. I don't know that I'd call him like an idol, but like very much looked up to him and all the touring car stuff he did. So that's, I got, I was fortunate enough to be able to meet him there. I met Patrick Dempsey there because Patrick was racing Mazdas back then. So that was kind of fun. I would say I probably had my best race ever at Mid-Ohio. That course is challenging. That course is like a roller coaster. And it's just a blast. It's super challenging every single lap. Road Atlanta, I won my first championship at Road Atlanta. So that kind of holds a pretty cool memory. And that course is again a little mix of like the hold on for dear life, the commitment and the long straightaways with some technicality down the S's. So it's a lot of fun as well. I don't know, I could give you like a good memory about every track I've been on.

So what was that championship in again, Horton?

So at Road Atlanta, that was the American Road Race of Champions. It was in my old IT car. So what they ran was there wasn't like a national championship for what SECA called a regional class back then. But the class band together and created their own championship and the ARC, it's known as in the Atlanta region, was always kind of like a big end of year, like marquee race to go to if you're racing those types of cars. And I went into the end of the season, not thinking I was going to go to that race. And I looked on the forum then, who was ever keeping points, I was like, oh, I'm in the lead. I should probably find a way to get my car down to Atlanta and actually race this, I have a chance. And I came in second, that was enough points ahead of the guy behind me, who was a couple positions further back to win the championship. And I think I won like a GoPro 3 and a fun little trophy. So that was like a super cool moment.

And GoPro 3, that's a while ago. Yeah, some GoPros were good. They really, I got a personal beef with GoPro. Mine keep overheating.

Okay. I can't ever keep them running long enough to get a full race.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah, I really like my 8. My 8's been like my old reliable. It just did so well by me. I still got like all these little like square ones when they get more square for a little while.

Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. But what are you most proud of?

Um, what am I most proud of? You know, that's a hard thing to really answer concisely. It's okay.

It's still podcast, so you got time.

Yeah. We're going on with our three. You know, um, I would say, honestly, I'm proud of everything that we've accomplished in the relationships that we've developed. You know, you get lost in the moment sometime. You really, you keep pushing, like you want to achieve this, or you want to achieve that. And sometimes you lose sight of the, of the goal. And it's really, it's the journey and being able to look back, like I'm not going to race cars the rest of my life. And, but I can look back and go, wow, I should, I'm, I can be proud of like, I raced professionally. Not very many people get to say that in the grand scheme of things. And some of my best friends I met during all of this, heck, we're having this conversation, which is a lot of fun, all because of these sorts of things. So I would say just the sum of all of that.

That makes sense.

So the relationships you've made.

Yeah, and you know.

A way to make it succinct, Dan.

No, but like, and the ability, maybe it's like age and like, holy crap, wisdom might actually be true here, like being able to step back and actually say, oh yeah, don't harbor resentment that you couldn't keep going and make more out of your professional career or have a career out of it, but just go, holy s***, that was a lot of f****** fun. And that took some time to get to that point. And so I'd probably say, can sink in a consync fashion, like, okay, being able to do this and then come back and find the fun in it again, and still let that passion drive and go out and kick some a**. Yeah, try to, try to. Who knows, who knows if it will. Exactly. And that's, and that's, I think, where I'm at right now. And I think that that's a really cool feeling.

Yeah. Every time anything that I'm in, I can be, I fall middle of the pack every time, but I don't care. I'm having a blast. I'm not there to, I'm not a guy who cares if I'm winning or losing or whatever. It's a seat time is more fun than anything.

Yeah. I love that. I didn't go to a racetrack for almost 10 years. I won't even go watch a race because... Race. Yeah. I was, it took a lot of work for me to like realize, yeah, you didn't continue racing because funding and sponsorship and all of that dried up. That's life. But you can still have fun with cars and you can still do it on your own terms. You just have to be open to allowing that in. And I think that's with anything and with anybody. So, yeah, I think being able to just be mid-pack and go, I'm on track. This is awesome. Like, look at me. I'm going fast. Look, I'm going fast. Like, come on. That's rad.

Yeah, for sure.

Did you ever lose the fun?

Oh, yeah. Oh, I lost the fun. Very much lost the fun. It was push, push, push, drive, drive, drive. And when you push that hard and you lose the fun, that's when things stop working as well. And inevitably, that's when stuff stops working. So it's good to take a little time off.

As we sort of start to wind down here, I did have a question earlier that I wanted to touch on. So for example, one of our sponsors is High Performance Academy, right? So a lot of teaching about everything about cars. One that's kind of always fascinating me is, again, the suspension side of things. It is kind of funny that you ended up in this role, but you were probably playing around with a lot of that stuff kind of in years past as well, right? Learning how things work. I guess, was that a difficult thing for you to learn or was it pretty easy to be like, all right, if I do this, this happens, et cetera, et cetera?

It's still a difficult thing for me.

Okay.

It is still a difficult thing. I'm just finally starting to grasp the concepts at a higher level. Now that I work in a company that I have an engineer that I can teams message over lunch and be like, can you help me with this? And he's like, did you not listen to me last? Yes, but now I'm trying to figure this out. So I've watched some of those High Performance Academy videos and they are like lifesavers. I wish that resource would have been available when I was younger. I mean, all of the books and chassis setup books and stuff, I've got like a bunch of like the, with the motor books published ones. But yeah, that's a pretty cool system that they got set up.

Damn, I lost my follow up on that.

Well, can we talk a little bit more about, I feel like we barely touched on the Koni stuff. What, so what is your job there? What does it entail? What do you, tell us what that's all about.

So I'm the global marketing manager for Koni, Shock Resolvers. And I am leading our B2C marketing initiatives. I'm focused primarily on North America. I do have a woman named Charlotte that is leading the rest of world. And we're really focusing on performance automotive, overland product. We have some new overland and off-road chunks coming out this year. And then, believe it or not, RV. We are really big in RV.

Really?

So that's kind of fun.

What's that look like actually? Cause like, you know, I like to bum around in his RVs. So I'm curious.

Yeah. So we make a product, a technology that's called FSD. And so it's a frequency selective damping. And it's a smart valve in the foot of the shock absorber. And so it reads frequencies of the vehicle and the road to automatically adjust, kind of like a magride would. But it's a mechanical component. So you don't need any electronics. You don't need any fancy pieces. You just literally put the shock absorber on it. It does it. And so on high frequency impacts, think like expansion joints, washboard roads, inconsistencies in the road, even like entry pads into parking lots, et cetera. That higher impact short duration frequency, the shock absorber will actually soften up. It'll make a more comfortable ride. On low frequencies, so think like body roll, turning a car around like a carousel or spirited drive.

Wind gusts even?

Yeah. It'll actually firm up the shock absorber, so you get a more spirited, positive feeling engagement with the car, just like if you have a sport damper and you tighten it up. And so that's actually really popular in the automotive world, but also in the RV world, because if you're experiencing porpoising or a lot of leaning in wind gusts, or if you're towing with your RV and you pass that vehicle and you get the drift that happens, it actually helps eliminate a lot of those driving experiences. And so we're like the fan favorite right now of RV, and I think it's a lot of fun to be able to experience that.

And so how long have you guys been doing that for? Is that prior to you getting there?

Oh yeah, we've been doing that for quite a while.

Okay.

And so we-

This is all new to me, so I'm just curious.

Yeah, I had no idea. You know, when I came to Koni, I was like, yeah, Motorsports, woohoo! Like Koni Yellows, Koni Oranges, like no, it's an amazing company that is really vested in a lot of different verticals. If you watch Alex Martini's video about Koni, he does a really good job describing the history. But we've got shock absorbers for suspension bridges. At the end of the tension cables, we've got shock absorbers on rail. I think I'm going to give you the wrong statistic because I don't have it on the top of my head. But I want to say like 80% of passenger rail globally, we've got shock absorbers on defense. We've got like blast seat shock absorbers on tanks. So if you hit a mine, there's actually a shock absorber for your seat as a passenger. These things that I had no idea existed. It seems like the bigger the shock absorber, the more prevalent we are in that market. So it's pretty cool. It's a lot of fun. So it's not a boring day. And look, we sponsored SCCA Track Night in America, Time Trial Nationals, Time Attack, and Targa this year. And the goal of that is opening up opportunities for people to experience performance driving on track and lowering those hurdles for people to do it. Like that's my personal mission and why I want to support events like that. And so I was out at one of those events this weekend, and I got to, you know, it wasn't work, but I got to participate and really see the fruits of that sponsorship happen on my personal time. But like, I get to go to events like that. I get to go to Mustang Week for work and really grow brand awareness to younger generations for Koni. You and I know Koni because it's been around forever, but your demographic, I could tell you right now, I've learned who's Koni. So kind of like the joke is we're not new, but we're new to you. And that's really why I'm in this role is to breed some excitement back into the brand for North America.

Well, it's such a variety too, right? Because, again, if we go back to, we have such a wide variety of folks on the show, whether it's drifting or drag or whatever. So it's like every time people are like, oh, you don't know about this brand? I'm like, no, I don't know anything about it. So that's why I really enjoy going to Seaman PRI. I'm like, I don't even know what this brand is. And then I look into it and it's like, it might be a little 10 by 10 booth, but apparently they supply everyone in this building somehow. They don't even have to advertise. So it's really fun. So I guess going forward, let's fast forward to the next year or two. What does your job consist of then on the Koni side of things?

It's really building brand awareness around the different categories that we have in the performance automotive and RV segments. We're doing the product launch of some of the new off-road stuff and then getting in front of the consumers at the right place and really supporting the marketplace so that people understand that they can benefit from the long history that we have. I mean, Koni was in... I think Koni started in the 1850s.

Yeah, something crazy.

On wagons or something, wasn't it?

Yep. In old Byerland, Holland. And so, yeah, just evangelizing Koni and showing our solution to problems that people have or our solutions to help people achieve their automotive aspirations, whether it's an RV, performance automotive or off-road. So it's fun. It's a dream job.

Yeah, and that's basically a year basically creating events, attending events, demonstrations as well as what it sounds like as well then.

We're not creating events, but we are attending events.

Gotcha.

And right now, we've done this a couple times, but at Gridlife Road America last year, we ran a contest on social media where you could get a ride along in one of our coilover-equipped, GTS-equipped GR86s.

Okay.

And so we're doing the same thing at Hyperfest in a couple weeks at VIR. We're partnering with ECS Tuning. They've got an F30 BMW that they installed the coilovers on, and we're just putting people on track in helmets. And we forget about this as automotive enthusiasts that, you know, we're like, oh, well, the fun thing is to go drive the track. But in reality, there's equally as many people, if not more, that have never even, like, sat in a car on a track. That's what is exciting for them. And so we're just trying to have fun with cars and build memories with people and connect.

So that is one of the coolest things. Like, for example, at SEMA, I got to ride with, like, Von Gittin Jr. in one of the RTR cars or, like, you know, these twin turbo vipers. And just passenger is just as cool. Like, Max Odegaard from Patience Metal Fab, I did a highlight of his episode of where, you know, he's like, come on, kid, hop in. Dude, those are some of, like, the most comments I'll ever get on a highlight is when somebody's talking about a ride-along. It's like, oh, me next. You know, and it is really cool. Like, the ride-along aspect's really sweet. I actually kind of hate that I missed out on that track day that you got to ride with Piero in in the 86. Oh, yeah. Because that would have been really fun. But like, even if it's a slow 200 horsepower, you know, 86, that's still a blast if it's set up.

Well, it's twice as terrifying in the passenger seat than it is in the driver's seat.

There's that too, right? It's a thousand horsepower 86.

I'm a horrible passenger. I will not, I just, nope, not gonna happen. And I've just acknowledged that about myself. But something made me think of something, and I don't know where I saw the picture, but there was like a sign at a racetrack. And I think it was a real sign. I could have been baited by AI, who knows. But it was essentially like at the gate of the track, the sign said like, there's a kid who someday wants to be you. Don't be, it didn't say, don't be a douche, but essentially like be that kid's inspiration or something. And like, just don't be a jerk at the racetrack. And so I think the ride alongs, like you talk about Max, like that's pretty cool. Hop in, go do it. Like you have no idea if that kid's going to be the next, you know, F1 driver or, you know, touring car champion. Like take the time and, you know, make, let the kid sit in the car, do all that stuff. I totally think that stuff's awesome.

Even if you just inspire another automotive enthusiast.

Yeah.

Yeah, we need as many as we can get.

Our market is under fire right now, whether it's EPA or technology in cars that's making it harder to modify. There's like a laundry list of things. So we need as many enthusiasts that just want to have fun with cars, whatever that means, to keep it healthy and alive. And if I can do one thing a day that helps that, then I know that I'm contributing back.

Does regulation affect you guys a lot? Like we had the SEMA Garage guys on a show and they were talking about like, you know, you have to worry about like ride heights and sensors and all this stuff. Do you have to deal with some of that too?

You know, regulations, that's out of my lane a little bit. I can't necessarily speak credibly to that, but I can say as like an observer of the engineers and stuff, you know, ride development, we don't claim to fit a mag ride car as an example because of all the regulations and pieces that have created. I don't even know if that's a regulation, but all the technology that has then gone into that damper, we can't verify that because we're not programming a computer for the shock absorber.

No. Where you would probably fall in is under all the ADAS stuff, the automatic braking and lane assist stuff. If the car rolls a certain way or doesn't act like it's supposed to, then you could be interfering with that system in some very small manner.

But that's more so for the lifted truck guys, I think.

Right.

Yeah, but we're making shocks for lifted vehicles now too. Yeah, I really can't speak to that. I'm not really involved in the engineering conversations. I could see that happening and I'm sure someday they'll be like, all right, marketing guy, don't oversell this or stay away from that. But yeah, I haven't personally felt it directly through my marketing.

I think we're fine for now. Well, we had, I think Greg Banish brought it up too. I think everybody we talked to in Detroit's like, yeah, this is what's on the horizon. The EPA stuff, we mostly figured out. Now it's all this ADOS safety stuff and it's like, all right, great.

I just want an analog, late 80s, Porsche or something and just hit the road.

Yeah, that's something I really got in. I almost wonder like, cause again, I was born in 99, so it's like, I really do wonder what I missed out on, right? Cause like, again, going from my Mark 7 to my 8, while I do love the 8, it's like, man, the 7 just, it had a lot more of less in a good way, if that makes any sense. I don't know.

But I bet you and I feel the same way. Like I look back at like, Bilstein Cup and Old Trans Am and like, the golden ages of racing, like when Paul Newman was racing and I go, wow, you could race professionally with an open trailer, an F100 and a virtually stock car with a roll cage, right? But so our generation probably is looking back at certain vehicle activities or eras like that. Our parents are probably feel the same way, just like you are here. And so you can't really do that. I mean, yes, you missed out on the driver's era. If you want to like quote like Vin and Ron's new channel and whole mantra of like the last eras of analog cars in the late 80s and early 90s. But look, man, you've got a successful podcast. You seem to work hard. You've got a nice car. You could probably afford to buy something and relive and experience it. Yeah, the cars are going up in price, but they're not supercar money and they're not gone. And that's the beautiful thing about our hobby right now is like, these cars are approachable and they're easy to work on. They're not over complicated. You don't need to be a computer engineer. And so if you're like, yeah, this is the experience I want to have, there's no reason you can't.

Well, before we pop the usual three, is there anything else on your end that you kind of wanted to touch on?

No, this has been a lot of fun. I feel like it's kind of bounced all over the place.

But it's our most organized one in a while.

Yeah, it's not uncommon for us, don't worry.

Cool.

Which is one of the reasons why we talked about not doing headphones and stuff like that in the beginning. We like to keep it super casual, just general.

That's why we got these microphones. It's better than a boom and everything.

I want to feel like we're just a bunch of guys sitting in a garage talking about cars.

Rad. Yeah. Well, this is definitely it.

Yeah, we might have to get actual professional lighting at some point, but that's a later problem. We made it this far.

Sorry about the LED.

It's still, again, some of the stuff that we've had, like I think Adam's garage is the dimmest. It's like, is there a light even on?

Yeah, it was shut off every 30 minutes, remember?

Yeah, there's that too, but awesome. Well, anyways, you want to pop the usual three?

Yeah.

All right.

All right.

Buckle up.

This is, yeah, right. So at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guests to pick three cars. I need a show car, a track car, and a daily driver. You have a limited budget, build wherever you want. Weld two cars together. What are you doing?

Track car, show car, daily driver.

Yep.

All right. Track car right now would probably be, it's kind of boring, but I love the TCR cars. So I'd probably get like a Gen 2 Audi TCR car.

Okay. Cool.

Yeah. I like the Audi better than the Volkswagen. Okay. Daily driver. Honestly, I kind of have my daily driver right now. So one ton Dually Ram, because you got to be able to toast stuff when it breaks. Right. And the new trucks actually get pretty decent fuel mileage, kind of. So yeah, I'd say that for the daily driver and then show car. Not that one. I would probably, if I could do a show car, I would probably get like a 61 Impala bubble top with like a twin turbo V8 or I'd go against the grain and build an Atlas six-cylinder, with a turbo Atlas six-cylinder, like the GM Barrow motor. Yeah, that would be my show car.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Okay. I like it when people get creative, right?

That went totally like off bar where I thought this was going to go.

Yeah. So my dad and I have a 51 Studebaker pickup truck. I had my first car was 68 Cutlass. I had a 59 Biscayne that I sold, just because I never got to the project and just had to clear some space.

Are you supposed to sell them if you don't get to them?

You know, rumor has it, right? So yeah, like a classic 61. So have you seen Friday? Yeah. Big Worm, that orange. Like 61 Bubble Top is like, that is like automotive perfection of that era.

My favorite Impala is the 95, 96 Impala SS is the Caprice chassis. Oh, yeah. Corvette LT1 engine. Yeah.

Yeah. With like the cool stylized Impala badge and stuff.

Yeah.

Super cool. Even better if you made a wagon into one.

Yes. I always thought about that. I wanted to do a Fairmont wagon, I made it all out like Fox body for like a GT Mustang look.

Dax Shepard just did a Zephyr like that.

Yeah. He loves that car too. I see him in it all the time.

Oh yeah. He has horrible taste, but amazing taste in cars. So awesome. Cool.

Well, sweet.

On that note, where can people find you?

All right. So my Instagram is definitely, maybe, probably not.

So we're not going to get his Instagram, I guess.

Yeah. It's the most Midwest passive aggressive name that I could come up with.

It's a great handle. That's how I search up. I'm like, what was his name again? Oh yeah, that's right. Definitely.

Okay.

And if people want to do anything with Koni or buy Koni stuff?

At Koni Shocks, that's our North American Instagram, Koni Shock Absorbers North America on Facebook. Yeah, please engage with us. Would love to answer any questions and help get people set up.

Cool. Dan?

You can find us at Gunna Garage if you, like I always say, want to be bored. Come check it out, not really doing much.

Well, on these days, you're going to do way more than me. It's okay.

You can. I'm Mr. Gunna Garage on Facebook now too. That seems to be growing more than anything.

So yeah, you know, some of my friends. Mr. Popular. Yeah. Well, perfect. You guys found me this far. Aaron, thanks for coming on. This is a blast. Dan, thanks for existing. And we'll see you all next time.

Thank you. Yeah.

Thanks again for watching the show, guys. Be sure to go into the description down below and check out all of our sponsors. They are what make this show possible. It allows us to travel the country and talk to some really cool guests. So be sure to check them out, support them just like you support us and see you all next time.