165. Import vs Domestic Prep, The 7 Second Evo, Porsche GT3 Build, New Hub Dyno w/ Ben Hochman

We started this business because of this thing and racing it out there. It deserves the respect to not be under a blanket and sitting in the corner.

If you want to build a seven second Evo, if I wanted to start today with today's prices and I were to go to a shop, I mean, all of a sudden, what would it take?

I mean, realistically, you need at least six figures.

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide Podcast. I'm your host, Harris, aka Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations, and I'm here with my Ford Loving, Breaking All My Stuff co-host, Dan.

You broke the same thing.

And today we are back with the returning guest, Ben Hochman of Hochman Fabrication and Speed. It's been, I think we're right out of year since the last time we were here. I think it was roughly September last time around. So we're in a new portion of your building. You got a pretty b***** dyno setup. So tell us a little bit what you've been up to, what's coming up and we'll go from there.

Yeah, so the space that we're in is one third larger than the original space. And just added a couple more bays. We've got some tire machines and a mainline Pro Hub dyno. That's all wheel drive rated for 4,600 horsepower. To expand our operation, we've got a really nice dyno viewing room where customers can come watch their dyno behind tempered glass with TV screens that emulate what's on the computers. And they can go on with their day working remotely if they choose to do that. But that's what we've been up to other than getting some seat time with the Porsche. Cause as you know, when we met last, we had just recently acquired it. So we've been playing with that and having a lot of fun, getting familiar with a lot of the local circuit tracks, building a lot of confidence in that platform now. We've also made some changes in the car. And you know, obviously still playing with the Evo. We most recently last week had it on the Dino and broke the world record for horsepower for the Evo platform that's ever been recorded on a Dino. That's one of the advantages of the Pro Hub is I'm sure there's other guys that still, you know, that run this platform that are ahead of us in some of the lists for quarter mile times that if they had an opportunity to put their vehicle on there, they certainly would proudly surpass that. So, but not to discount what we've accomplished and we're proud to be able to wear that crown for the short term.

Yeah, that's awesome. What made you go the main line route?

Well, we were at PRI, which I know you guys are looking forward to this fall or winter and got an opportunity to obviously see what's available and also see what's recommended amongst our peers. I have a lot of friends in the industry, as you know, and the first thing I did was reach out to a majority of them that either owned Dinos themselves or Tune and I straight up asked them, what Dino, if you could buy any Dino, what Dino would you buy? And I would say about 95% of their response would say main line, hands down. So it made that side of the decision pretty easy because I knew that we were going to be working with a piece of equipment and investing in the business in the right direction. Because that's always the hard thing is there's always a lot of options and everybody's got an opinion one way or the other. But it seemed like a landslide for the Pro Hub.

Well, that's certainly not a cheap investment either, especially if you're going to the all wheel drive routes.

Well, yeah, does it basically cost twice as much when you do all wheel drive or does the computer system take a little chunk of that and the other two hubs aren't as bad?

Yeah, certainly all wheel drive adds to the expense because you're paying just like anything else for the materials and costs that go into putting that all together. So it's definitely a hefty investment. But as you know, we've been battling out a lot of demons and struggling with the car and spent a lot of time at the track struggling with the car because we didn't have a dyno. We would do a dyno once a year. And then if we ran into some trouble, we would either have to try and get back in line for that or spend the time at the track. Rather than having something that's literally a few feet away. And if you have problems, you can use it as a diagnostic tool really easily.

So then have you done any like simulated runs on there yet with your car?

I haven't used the drag mode yet, but I can tell you that I am definitely going to be, you know, if we can get this car back from World Cup this year in one piece. The first thing I'll do is strap it to that thing and just put it through all the gears and simulate the dyno mode that it's advertised at, because there's really not a lot of documentation or videos of anybody using it. And I'm curious to know how it works. How well does it work? How close of a simulation is it? And is it something that we can really use to our advantage in the future? Because as you might imagine, there's a lot of concern about drivetrain doing something like that. And we have done gear shifts and the drive mode that this thing offers, but I have not set it up and launched it on there. The concern is knocking all the gears out of that thing, out of this thing, doing that. I'm sure this is equipped to do that because it's what it's advertised to do. But talking again, experts in the industry about the idea of it, especially the guys that service the drivetrain in this car, they're telling me, I do not do this, but I've got to test it at least once, you know, when everything is coming apart to get, you know, refreshed like it does seasonally, may as well, if it's in one piece, get an opportunity to test it.

Is it ready to go for World Cup right now?

Yeah, it's technically ready to go for World Cup. That's what we were doing last week with it, trying to put through diagnostics, figure out what was wrong with it. We, at the shootout several weeks ago, struggled with the car after putting a new setup in it, meaning a fresh motor and fresh head. We're dealing with a lot of small issues. It turned out, from what I suspect to be valve spring issue, we just didn't have enough shims in the valve springs in order to get the pressure on the seat that we needed. And we were floating a valve on the shift and carrying it down the track. And again, we put the car together and we're working on other customer cars, putting them as a priority, of course, to get them to this event, leaving us very little time to prep this thing. And had we put on the dyno, we would have figured that out and solved it before we left. But can't change that now. We brought it home, managed to do that and now we've got it ready to go.

So how many customers you have going to World Cup?

To World Cup, as far as like competing, we're the only ones that are competing at World Cup. We had about five different customers that were going to the shootout last month. Yeah, so we didn't have that problem this time where we're working on a bunch of cars leading up to the event. We made this a priority when we got back after the shootout to get it sorted and ready for World Cup. And we're not on a time crunch with customers at the moment with respect to trying to get ready for World Cup.

Well, I'm going to say you're also month out and it sounds like you are like you're ready, ready sort of deal. Are you going to have like a last minute time crunch or just throw it on the trailer and ready to go?

I mean, realistically, we'll probably just take it to the local track here, Great Lakes, on a random day of the week to run it through the gears and make sure that it can do a nice burnout. And there's no real hiccups and not trying to run a time or run it on full power boost or anything like that. But you can never be too sure with these things, especially with a month, you get a little antsy making sure you know, you don't want to waste time if there isn't something that needs attention. But at the same time, you know, you want to save it for it. So but I'm pretty confident in everything after putting it through the paces on the dyno.

How far is the drag away from your hour and a half?

It's about an hour away.

That's not bad. You guys are kind of blessed. You got Autobahn, you're not far from here. You got drag away. You can do a little bit of everything.

Yeah, we do have a good spread of tracks in the area. We're kind of in the middle of all that.

Yeah. Have you taken so what's new with this car? We'll come back to the Evo. What's new with this car? Have you done anything with it?

Yeah. So we did an exhaust system for it. So we make an exhaust system for the car naturally. We did some aerodynamic modifications. We've got a GT2, GT3 RS style hood from Apollo Aero, which has all the ducting that's functional. And I bought all the parts from Porsche that are cross compatible from the RS model and modified the inner linings in order to run all the ducts. So we've got extra brake cooling for the non RS GT3 here. And naturally some smaller things like custom wheels from our friends over at Crown Customs. And we switch tires depending on what we're doing and where we're going. Yeah.

So you're getting comfortable going with corners and stuff then?

Yeah. We did put it, we bolted in a competition motorsports roll cage as well.

Oh, OK.

Yeah. So we've done the basic modifications. As you know, this platform is incredibly well engineered and it needs very little to do what it's doing. Just tires, brakes and some minor suspension changes, shimming for camber. And that's, you know, pretty much what it needs and what we've been doing as far as track prep and changes for this thing. I haven't done any tuning on the car yet, but we have all the adapters for the Pro Hub. And from what I understand, there's really good data in the marketplace and also really good tunes available, like off the shelf tunes in the marketplace. So we'll probably be experimenting with that.

Yeah.

I think, I think Cobb even has a Porsche sort of thing.

Yeah. I think so.

We're gonna talk to them down there. Okay. And then are you still in the same Apex Turbo setup from last year?

We went to an 86 mm last year.

Okay.

So we're still on the 86 mm Apex right now.

Sure.

The one thing that we did do most recently is what ended up getting us the horsepower, because we did break the horsepower number record with just BoostAlone. And that was like 81 PSI. And then we opened up the bottle and put 125. And I mean, we broke the record. Again, when these records get broken with our friends over there, RRT Motorsports, they're broken by usually small margins. Now, most recently, they have crushed the mile an hour, which ours was 204, now they're at 210. So hats off to them. But, you know, the horsepower number, I think we broke it by like a few horsepower. It was like 10, 12 maybe. And I'm like, that's great. But we really need more in order to compete with these guys. And so we opened the bottle up. We picked up like five PSI, 86 PSI and 125 shot. That's when we ended up picking up 200 more horsepower and we ended up breaking the record by quite a bit more. So, but he still holds, you know, more torque than us. We're at like 946 or 948 torque. And I mean, he's over a thousand. He's like a thousand eighteen. So we're trying to look into trying to close the gap on that, so to speak. But yeah, same turbocharger, really. We've moved over to solid lifters on the exhaust side. We've been kind of R&D-ing configuration of our own using a mix of other company, you know, various companies' products to get something that works well for us as far as recipe, because we had a lot of Valtrine issues. And...

You had lifters like spare ones in a tub of wear in the glove box, I think, last time we talked.

Yeah, we were chewing up, you know, lifters and rockers left and right. We would have a good pass and then we would have a serious failure. Most of that was because the lifters were just not pumping up fast enough to keep up what we were doing. And moving over to a solid lift around the exhaust side, which is where most of the failures tend to happen on the platform with this, it has mitigated that issue tremendously. So I think we've had maybe one or two rocker failures and they're not such a drastic failure that it's spread across the head and damaging other components. It's like the roller is cracked, we notice it when we check it and we're able to remove it and put a new one in and move on without major time loss or expense or headaches.

Are you pulling the valve cover after every pass?

Pretty much, usually just to check. I mean, it's cheap insurance, especially at this level and easy to fix if you can catch it. So pretty much every pass will pull the valve cover and we're also pulling the spark plugs and checking the spark plugs. You need to be, when you're doing the solid lifter thing, you need to be checking the valve lash all the time. There's a lot of people that are using various solid lifters and experimenting with this platform out there. From what I experience and what I understand, they're struggling with the valve lash always needing servicing and always moving on them. And that's one of the things we focus most on with this program, trying to figure out a solution and a recipe is something that we can set. And it stays where it needs to without a lot of servicing. So we're both checking that while we're checking all of our other areas while we're in there. But we're making sure that it's doing what we're wanting it to do. And so far, it's been really dead on.

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That's really one of the reasons that we continue to do that.

Well, this is just the reality of, I'm sorry, what's your, I know your mile per hour was 204, but where are you at time wise? I forgot what it was at.

We matched our best time this year at 770. Yeah. We're moving towards a 750 on paper based on what we can see and compare from previous runs. Sure. And about the thousand foot on our way to a 75 pass is when one of the rod bolts, actually two of the rod bolts ended up let it go in the previous motor. And I take responsibility for that simply because the motor needed to have new rods put in it. Like those rods, when you run an aluminum rod motor, especially at this horsepower level and boost level after 15 runs, you need to pull it out and at minimum change the rods. I think I had like 20 runs, 25 runs on this thing in dyno time. And I just lost track of time really, because we were struggling so much previously that when we got it together and it was running so well, I was getting a lot of seat time. We were getting ourselves and our program back on track. And I just lost track of how many runs I had on it. So it was a fantastic failure, unfortunately, and it took out everything.

Including the billet block.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. The billet block is completely toast on that, unfortunately.

Was it the extra one that you had sitting on the side last year? Is that the one that took out?

That's the one that's in the car now.

OK, so that is the extra. OK, cool. I was doing the math. I'm like, don't tell me he's on a third one.

Well, I just had to get a third one, and it's under construction right now for World Cup. But usually, you can rebuild these motors. And that one had been rebuilt several times already. But once they're distorted enough, you know, you're better off trying to just replace the thing and run a fresh set up because you run into other weird issues with like timing components not fitting right. And you have to run a thicker oil than you usually want to run. You know, trying to band-aid a situation that you really don't want at that level.

Who's the who's the go-to for build blocks for this platform?

For this platform right now, it's RRT Motorsports. And, you know, we were working with a previous outfit that you may recall. And at the end of last year's World Cup, we changed that.

Okay, gotcha. Okay.

We changed our program completely last year. So, and, you know, we've been really happy. There's it's been a just, you know, different vibe. And everybody just seems to be much more content with how things are wrong. Sure.

So what are some of the, I guess, are you able to talk about some changes that happened when you switched programs? Is it like physical components or is it just more so just approach?

Well, I mean, we were, we were, we were partnered up before with another outfit and they were doing our tuning in our, in our engine program. And, you know, we were very successful in working with them for a long time, but we also, right, it got to a point where we grew as a company and our company was starting to do a lot of the things, you know, side by side in their eye, even though we do a lot more than just this platform and what you see us doing. We're a fabrication shop and we're expanding into other avenues in this industry. And our customers are asking for these other things. And we've always kind of like restrict ourselves on that area because of those, you know, unwritten agreements. Sure. And as we grew and we started to find ourselves at like the stage of the shootout and World Cup racing literally in the same class, literally side by side, it just became apparent that there was a lot of conflict of interest at hand and we were putting a lot of risk on our side of things. And it's not that they were doing anything bad, but there were things that obviously needed to change in order for us to not have an uneven playing field. Like putting things towards a disadvantage, so to speak. And there are honest mistakes that were made in some areas and there were discussions that were had in order to have things sorted, but like we just couldn't come to an agreement and it's just how life is sometimes. Sure. And like we're friends and we still talk and the relationship is not as strong as it was, but it's not like that bridge is burned and time will heal type of thing.

That's always good.

And like I said, we're really not like targeting them as a business as far as what we're doing with the dino and trying to expand, working with another team as far as the program. It's just, we're a business and we've got to make educated decisions to take care of ourselves and our customers.

Sure. And you're still running Haltech too, right?

I sure am. And so we are still running Haltech. And those guys have really stepped in to mentor us and fill the gap on the tuning side of things.

Over the past year?

Yeah, absolutely.

What's that look like?

They've always had a really amazing customer service program. I mean, whether you call in and need help, or you can get them to actually live beyond your computer screen. And they've got remote help where they can remotely come in and help you live. So they've always done that with customers. And I've had a point of contact, Richard Nelson over at Haltech. And if you don't know Richard Nelson, you will soon, especially if you're going to try and be at PRI and talking with a lot of these guys about programs and stuff.

That was a big reason why I swung for the PRI. I think because it's hard to get people to come back to your Airbnb for a podcast. You know what I mean? But if we're right there with a booth, I think it's going to be pretty sweet.

But like all of this stuff is intertwined, just like our industry, you know, and Richard has always wanted to be more involved in my program with this car. But again, those lines trying to be respectful and egos and things like that, like I've always kind of held him in the background and he hasn't really been able to do much other than just small support. Well, as soon as I made changes, it opened a door of opportunity for him to actually come in and be part of this program more. So he's really helped lead the tuning on this car since then and is helping teach me about all the ins and outs of this stuff and he's just been a blessing, truly. So we're getting to reap the benefits of his experience, knowledge, expertise and he works for Haltech. He does work for Haltech, yeah. And then we were sponsored by Haltech for racing, so it's a mutually beneficial situation, but he definitely contributes more time, even outside of the work hours than he should and needs to. And I have lots of, I've had conversations and I have a lot of bigger conversations to have with him. And probably in the background with some of the people that know him best and will respond to this questions. But there are things that need, this guy he's done so much for me. He's been like, I call my fairy godfather. So I've got to reciprocate for him. And again, breaking the records and doing all the things we're doing since our spring started in this car. And even really, he came in as a savior at World Cup last year. That's allowed us to continue at the same pace that we were at with major changes like that. Because you can imagine what kind of a ripple effect it puts in your program, switching up your engine program and your tuning program completely.

Yeah, the fact that you're even back ready to compete this year. I mean, some people take a long time to switch programs. That's impressive in itself. Yeah. Which model ECU are you running in there then?

We're on the Nexus R5.

OK, OK.

The same one that we have in the past. Sure. Most of the issues that we've had have been like wiring related issues, which are not necessarily, you know, it's I've had like three different harnesses in this car and I've had them made by various resources. And it just I hate wire. You know, the one thing that this car really truly deserves is a proper wiring harness. And it's just like I imagine some of my customers that are coming and looking like, God, I really need a good fabricator, something that can do like make the impossible possible. And it's like few and far between hard to find. And when they find them, they're like, thank God. I am struggling to just get a damn proper wiring harness for this car that it f****** so, so much deserves, you know, and I've invested in 10 different ways and you think it's always going to turn out the right way. And I just here I am again, you know. And I see all these other beautiful harnesses and I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen. I don't think there's anyone like locally that could whip up what I need.

That's the tough part is finding something local.

We might have a guy we can put you in touch with. I mean, he does pro-mods.

I've seen a lot of this. Yeah, I've watched the episodes of a few guys that you guys do with wiring and I'm just like, this is.

This guy knows his s***.

I teleport this. How much is it going to cost for me to fly your family over for a week, dude? Please don't help me. And I have good wiring guys, you know, don't get me wrong. But like this thing is a whole other animal. It has, I mean, you walk past it and it can sense like how much air is going by. It's not really, but that's how much it sensor.

When you're playing at that level, all that comes down to all that little stuff. It can be anything. Yeah.

It's insane. We popped this other motor out after we blew it up, put the new one in, like I said, went to the shootout, didn't have time with it. Cause it's like the thing was running on its best pass. We blew it up. So like, let's just put it back together. Everything's the same, should be fine. And pinched a wire somewhere on Cylinder 4. Cause like the first issue we ran into at the shootout was Cylinder 4 wasn't on line. It was like, why? And luckily again, Nick from Haltech, he came in to the rest of you and sure enough, was able to say, hey, the injector's offline. So testing, figure out no signal from ECU. Clearly we got a break or disconnect. So we just depend on each end of it and then just ran a raw, you know, like separate wire boom. So that boom, we're back on line at least, but what the f***?

Yeah.

And there's nothing showing that that happened.

I've done that before on an engine swap. You like crush a connector or something as you're swapping stuff out or you've pulled something out or whatever. You get either a check engine light or nothing turns on. You're like, great.

Yeah. And this car is time that it gets worked on is like after we're done with work and we're like cracking a beer, you know, we're like, let's get this. Let's stab this other motor, you know. So I mean, but again, we didn't have any, you know, event that was like, oh, we got caught on this. Or when we went back in, we wedged something. Everything was like still in its normal place. I have no explanation for it. So this winter, we're going to pull the f****** harness back out again. And figure out what I'm going to do, whether I want to, I'm going to have to build a whole other harness again. So, yeah, put me in touch with those guys for sure.

Sure.

I mean, everybody we talked to just loves wiring. Yeah, that's maybe one or two people.

The guys that we've talked to that are specialists at it actually really like it. But most car guys are like, f*** that.

Do you remember the guy that Abdullah, who we had on show up, so 143?

Yeah.

He is also like, this is back breaking work.

Yeah.

So even though he likes it, it's a pain in the a**. Yeah. So here's my question. So what are you doing between passes, right? Like, are you working with a tuner? Are you able to just crack open a laptop yourself, make the changes you need to do? Like, what does it look like?

So with this car and its program right now, like I said, I'm working solely with Richard Nelson at Haltech. Sure. And I mean, he is plugging in remotely. I'm hooked up to Wi-Fi off my truck as soon as I'm done with a pass. If he's not there presently, like in person, he, you know, he's on the computer, downloading the logs, comparing data. And I'm turning the car around, you know, I'm fueling it up, checking the oil, popping the valve cover, draining the catch can, repacking both of the parachutes, you know. And it's a rush, man. It's quite a bit to try and tune it and also turn the car around. You really need a full team. And I've got a good team. I've got quite a few guys that work with me every time I raise.

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Yeah.

But when you've got like an hour to turn the car around and it's got all this stuff that needs to be done, you really need more hands on deck. And I'm not quite comfortable yet to be making all the changes on this car at that pace, you know? There's gonna be a time where, sure, I'm gonna be at that point and I'm comfortable, it's just not happening yet. And again, I'm trying to get mentored on, like the most I've learned with the cars when we're on the dyno because, you know, we have a small chat after we're done with turning the car around and he's like, you know, we've made these changes, here's what we're gonna do. I mean, this is what I think it's gonna happen and, you know, send it. So then we come and do it all over again. And it's working really well, you know, and I'm very happy with it right now. I'm sure there's a lot of guys out there that are thinking, man, what the hell is wrong with Hochman? He can't take this on or do all this. Hey, man, like, I'm not gonna try and let my pride get the best of me. I'm more than happy to have a program that's progressing and a team that's helping and that's also progressing and we're having a good time. And at the benefit of my customers, I'm not trying to do it all. Whenever someone comes in for a tune or using the dyno, if they're not just renting it, like this customer that's coming later today, they're paying our rate of $225 for me to hook up the thing and let them do three pulls to see what it makes. If they want to tune their car, I don't have just like me or one size fits all person doing the tuning here. I'm engaging a resource that's the best resource available on the planet for whatever platform that is, whatever ECU it is and I'm facilitating, coordinating that, whether it be remote or in person to get that best end result, you know?

Yeah, it's, you know, you say that, but do you know how many, as shops grow, do you know how many shops we've been to an interview that their shop car is sitting in the corner with an inch of dust on it? I mean, like it's usually the first thing to go. I mean, honestly, once you get, cause the customers have to be your priority at some point in time.

Yeah, well, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, my background is business and I'm, you know, working on the business and I'm trying to be resourceful. I'm expanding, I'm getting more help in the office, I'm getting more help in the shop and, you know, you've just got to have discipline. I mean, I'm putting in a lot of late hours with this thing and with the team. And this is the reason this business is even existing.

Right.

Like we started this business because of this thing and racing it out there. So it deserves the respect to not be under a blanket and sitting in the corner. You know what I'm saying? Good point. And the money that we invest in this thing, I think we get a return on, you know, not only from an experience standpoint as a team building ourselves and our camaraderie, but like we have a customer. I don't know, was the Canadian car just dropped off when you guys were here?

Which car is that?

So I have a customer from Canada, Quebec, Canada. And I mean, it's the biggest, craziest build ever that we've done. And I mean, we've done some big, crazy builds. But I mean, he's having us build a DSM first generation that is like a replica of this thing, but crazier.

Oh, I don't know if you're familiar with that.

This thing's chassis is certified for 750 in the quarter mile. That thing is certified for 600. And it's on a rotisserie right now at the paint shop, getting the best paint job I've ever seen. Yeah.

Is it the Wisconsin guy that I keep hearing about?

No, he's from Quebec, Canada.

Yeah. I don't remember another Evo here, to be honest with you, the last time we were here.

No. So is the car being painted in Quebec as well?

No, it's down the street.

Okay.

Got you. I mean, his build block is in the box right over here. And it's an art. I mean, he's got all these. What do you want? Just like you. Everything. We don't have to build this type of manifold. We could probably simplify it without dual wastegates. No, dual wastegates. You know, like everything just like this car. He was at the shootout and with us in the pits, he's going to be at World Cup. OK. You know, he's like part of the team, man. But I mean, his build is just insane. And it's because he's a fan of this.

Right.

So that's pretty awesome. It's amazing. I mean, I'm getting a chance to basically rebuild my dream for a customer, you know, like get paid to do it with a team of people at our level with all the new. We're making the changes that if I ever built this, what would I do differently?

Sure.

It's going to be lighter. It's going to be stronger. It's going to be faster.

Now skip all the heartache. Just go straight to the like lessons learned. Here's how we can do it for you sort of deal.

Yeah. But I mean, we're working with customers that are just different level than your average shop. Because they're showing up with these huge projects. They're investing in levels that most of these guys don't. And they're coming prepared. Like he came with a PPG dog box. He came with all the components. There's a wall of components that he showed up with. So we have everything we need. When the car gets back from paint, we're going to be able to hit the ground running. We're not going to be like, oh, now we need this or we need to order this. Like one of the parts he bought is one of three titanium scatter shields that I ever made. And I forgot about it because, of course, he showed up with this laundry list, like page after page with, you know, the boxes numbered. And I'm going through it like these are all the baller parts that I have on my car. This is crazy. And then I get to this other page and it's like Hochman Fabrication and Speed Titanium Scatter Shield. I'm like, holy s***, I forgot I even made this. Because that's one I made in my garage before I even had all this. Yeah. So he's been buying parts for like eight years from me preparing for a build. That's out of nowhere. He's like, hey, man, I'm coming. I'm like, cool. And then, I don't know, like a day or two later, he was like, I'm like 10 hours away. Am I? I'll see you like tomorrow. I'm like, this guy's not even this guy's really here. Like he drove, I don't know, like 30 hours or some crazy amounts. Yeah. And dropped his car off with all these parts, you know, and I'm like, dude, we got to celebrate. And he's like, I don't have time. I'm like, what do you mean? How long are you here for? He's like, I got to go back right now. Like you f****** Canadians are crazy.

Is he going to be at World Cup this year?

Yeah.

I just look like just scoot a few inches this way. Sorry. No, you're good.

He's going to be, he's coming with his like best mechanic that, you know, they want to come help be a part of, yes. When you're at World Cup, there's all kinds of chaos.

So is that, is that something that you're assembling here in your shop?

Yeah.

Okay.

The only thing that's being outsourced is the paint because I don't have a paint booth here.

Yeah.

And I've got to paint it.

Well, that's going to be the next shop you open, right?

I mean, I was definitely not planning on, when we spoke and met last, I certainly, this was not, this dyno space was not really something I was planning. I mean, I figured that might happen, but it certainly wasn't like next year when I see you guys. Dyno. That was not part of the program. But that's how quickly I shift gears around here.

Was it just a matter of, did like the space come up for sale and you're like, I'll buy it sort of dealer?

This space has been against all odds for sure. This space was open and it was actually dual like that one, where they're combined spaces and it was totally available. And I wanted it. And I told my broker that I wanted it. And they told me we could talk and work those numbers out. Long story short, it turned into them trying to really throw it on the market and see what they could get before they would give me the chance. So like waited for months watching people go through this place. And I'm like, man. They wanted me to negotiate against myself, essentially.

Yeah, just start putting like hazardous material in here. Just like, oh, no.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we were we were definitely not helping. I'll say that with all the loud stuff we can do around here.

But get the pots and pans quick.

But I held out and it paid off and then dealing with the village. And, you know, luckily, construction was a breeze when it came to the construction side, because that twin turbo trans and that you guys have seen us working on finishing is owned by the guy that did the construction here. So we traded on that whole deal. And that, you know, whenever he was cut loose, he was he was really moving at my pace. So so the village was a pain. And so it was obviously the owners. What else?

That's kind of cool. You're able to trade labor basically for that. That's that's always a nice thing. Yeah. I had a friend of mine got a 13 GT 500 that daily wired a house for somebody and got a car.

So it's just like anything else. If you can do it well and you can be like accountable and responsible, you know, don't just like that's a tough part. There's got to be paperwork, man. You can't do the, you know, you help me with this and we'll kind of know. Yeah, that's when you always get into trouble. And just like the business itself, guys that are not being very detail oriented and tracking things and communicating things on a daily basis, the ones that are getting in arguments with customers and legal action over numbers after the build's over. I mean, it seems like quite a theme lately. I've seen quite a few things. Yeah, it's like a post every week or two now. It's crazy.

It's never ending.

People are arguing over, you know, sharing, spilling, you know, just opening all their skeleton into the closet on not only their own build, but like these other shops that are not necessarily doing anything wrong, man. They could probably do things differently with the way they're organizing and like how often they're doing things with communication. But like at the end of the day, today's numbers don't make sense. Like you're just going to have to get used to it. The days of watching those TV shows and like seeing guys do basic mods to their cars, and then either doing them at home or paying a shop locally to do it for what you consider to be a reasonable price, they're over. Get over it. Okay. And if you want to do this, then you got to commit to that. And if you don't, then you better get out of the industry and just move on to something else. Go play ball sports because the cost to get the materials and products overseas now are insane. You know, like I need a gear set or a motor for this thing. It's an extra $12 to $2,500 in taxes. And you know, I get it. Like I get the whole tariff thing and I, you know, and it hurts, but it's just part of the program. Let's not even go on that topic. Let's just move forward from it. Then you want to talk about like what the cost of living is today and what you've got to pay to have good mechanics and good tax and good fabricators on your team. You're not going to be able to put out low dollar exhaust systems and low dollar bills. They need to be paid properly to survive, and that means paying a good living, and it's going to cost your team money if they're going to be here putting eight hours into the car a day. I can tell you that most of these shops are not billing out eight hours a day because rightfully so they're not able to. They're not putting in eight hours, but I've got a team that will come and be in this facility for 10 hours in the day, not take a lunch break or a 15-minute lunch break, and honestly bill out eight hours. I will happily bill it to the customer and show them, you're getting billed eight hours today because this is what we did, and how much was done, and here's all the materials that were put into it. I look at it and I'm like, holy f***, that's a crazy number. But dude, this is what we got to be paid an hour. This is what it costs for those materials. This is what it costs for those parts. You know what I'm saying? As an owner in the shop, when I see these posts, I'm like, yeah, I know it hurts and I can believe how hard that is to swallow because I'm living it every day. I look at my bills for my customer like, dude, this is crazy that we're peeling this out. But like, dude, that's what it's costing to get these jobs done. And like we're documenting and showing accountability for every minute of it. So, I mean, there's no getting around what this is, but like people are thinking that $500 exhaust and $1,000 exhausts.

Those days are gone.

That's dying, man.

You know what breaks my heart? No, it's not the 2% female demographic. It's the fact that 80% of you guys are not subscribed and following the show. So go ahead, hit subscribe or follow. And of course, if you're on YouTube, hit that bell so you are notified when we drop a new episode. Let's get back to the show. So I like to ask this question, depending on like where we're at in the country, because it differs. But what's your shop rate here?

It's 149. And a year ago, it was like 129. So I've had to raise it that much since then. No, I mean, that's crazy. You know, usually one year, you know, at a time, it's like $10 an hour. That's like usually the going rate. But like $20 an hour for 12 months is kind of hard to swallow thinking about it, because, I mean, think about when you were getting pay raises for hourly, $20 an hour was a huge pay raise, right? And that would happen over a year. You'd be like, f***, I got it. I went from being like low associate to like mid management almost, right? Yeah. Like that. But that's the number that we're using to survive now. Yeah. You know, it has absolutely nothing to do with expanding. It has to do because that was even before this was a thing. That was just to keep the team surviving, you know? Yeah. Because you look at what's going on. I mean, the cost of all this stuff is getting so high. So I'm just done dealing with the people that are so numbers oriented and trying to make their decisions on quotes. Like, I don't even quote anymore. Unless it's something that I've done over repeated time, like, and even then, it's going to change, like almost monthly if the material costs are going to change. But like a dual exhaust on a rough number, because everything is build out actual hours, like we'll use the same number. But everything else, we won't even I won't even attempt to quote it. I'll just get them to either, you know, agree that we need to be on a one to one level of communication, transparency, you have visibility. I'm going to show you everything step by step is being done and have it on paper, too.

OK, sure.

Like literally. And you should see the level of detail that my guys put into their stuff to just say, look, man, we're working with aftermarket parts on a car that is maybe 30 years old, and there's a lot of variables in both of them to try and work with a number that maybe say in the book for doing this job on OEM parts is not a reasonable expectation, right? So I don't want to set false promises that like by the book, we can install an exhaust system in two and a half hours if it's pre-made, right? But that's an OEM part, right? You've got to probably put in different hangers now because you've got a different size diameter or it's designed differently to hang differently, or it's designed in a way that you don't even have available hangers like this. It's 68 Camaro, the exhaust that the customer is having us put on it is like halfway. The hangers are in the back, it dumps in the middle, there's nothing holding it. You've got to develop something that bolts off the chassis. Yeah. While they're sitting there, we're looking at it on their floor, they're like, this is so small and simple. It shouldn't take that much time. How much is it going to cost to install this? Well, if I look at it in a picture, yeah, maybe $500 is reasonable, but then when it gets here, it's on a triangulated flange and that's not oriented correctly for the headers that are on the car. Then we got to cut off one of the flanges and rotate it, right? These are all little things that you're not going to know just sitting there looking at it on the floor.

Right.

You look under your car and like, this is triangular, this is triangular, it should be good. No, dude.

Yeah. No, I think I remember last time we were here, you had a truck on the lift and you, yeah, while we showed up, yeah, you were shooting a video and talking about, here's what we did today and all that kind of stuff. So I think that communication is huge.

Our structure here is every single day, like I've got, let's say, seven cars on a lift in a bank getting worked on every day. Every single day, I spend basically an hour after work going through each bay, sending the customer a really detailed video explaining the progress of the day, what's gone on. And there's also videos that go on throughout the day where I'm giving them an update or I'm talking about something because we've got to make an educated decision together.

Yeah.

Like we've got this seven liter Hemi swap Dakota over there and we're doing this crazy build on it. And we got to figure out what fuel tank we're going to go with now because the fuel tank set up for the four link that we're building is going to work with. So we've got to make an educated decision together. And sure, I can just make it for you. But some of these customers like this one like to be really involved in the process.

Right.

So in addition to those, we send them a video at the end of the day that summarizes and shows them what's going on and what we're planning on doing in the future, what parts we've got to order that are coming now because we're at the next stage and we now know what we need. You know, just all of the really nitty gritty details.

Right.

And then the following morning, I collectively, because all my guys will send me the notes from the day, which is like, you know, everything from pulling off these bolts in order to remove this part and putting torque specs, everything. And I put that into their ticket and it's day by day. This is the hours for this day. Here's what was done. And then, you know, accumulating parts so that there is absolute full transparency, day to day. The numbers are going to accumulate. There should be no confusion at the end of this thing. How we got here? Why we got here? Regardless of how crazy the numbers get these days. And that's how this has to work. That's how you run this type of business. That's how you can get these projects done with your customers. Because otherwise, you do spend a lot of time and resources trying to explain it all on the back end and gets, it's hard to recover from that when you haven't been that detail oriented on the front end of it. Because it's just like any other project you do yourself, right? You and your buddies get into it and you get over your head in the project and on the back end, you're like, we spent way more money and we spent a lot more time than we were hoping to or ever thinking we would. But I sure as hell know that that's what it took. You know, like there was no other way of doing it. So it's a lot easier to expand that relationship with the customer and expand the scope of the work on the project and build a much nicer build. If you're doing it like you would almost with a buddy in a garage, because that's kind of how this is structured, right? As far as transparency and cost, it's no different than you have in that kind of visibility on the cost and the progress.

Right.

So that's, you know, long winded.

How long have you been in business for anyway?

Seven, eight years.

Seven, eight years.

Seven, eight years. Yeah. Started out of the garage.

Well, yeah.

You got a backlog right now? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We're about a month out.

Okay.

Yeah. We were about two months, but we've just been really hammered away since we got back from these events. And the transition between fall and winter is kind of dicey. Sure. Because like you do get a little bit of a dip around return to school time frame because of all these, I think, all the schools.

It's tuition to college.

Yeah.

And then as soon as like the snow falls, everybody's like, well, I'm done for the race season time to get in there and make all these upgrades. And it just becomes this flow of everybody else trying to get in here for for next year. So it's more of an art form than a science to figure out the waves. But that's what I'm anticipating right now. Sure.

Just nausea this way, if you're interested. But what's it called? So you, I noticed a lot of classic cars every time I come here. Is that a big part of your customer base?

It is. Yeah. We've been doing a lot of classic car work.

Sure.

A lot of rest of mods, a lot of maintenance and service really. Because we've been advertising, doing more service and maintenance for customers, as opposed to just custom fab. And a lot of people seem to be taking advantage of that. That's good.

Well, I saw a nice AC Cobra on the other side of the wall here.

Yeah. You like that? It's an 89 Mustang.

Yeah.

That's what this thing is. It's a factory five Cobra.

Yep.

MK4, MK5. And, you know, everything is cannibalized from an 89 Mustang.

Okay.

5.0.

Yeah.

Throwing in a tubular chassis.

Well, it looks cool.

I'm not trying to downplay.

Yeah. No, I'm just kidding.

How cool the Cobra is. Yeah. But I am extremely jaded when it comes to cars right now, as my wife likes to tell me. So to my surprise, when I popped that hood, I'm like, you know, I was expecting something, I guess, different.

I always like to see a 427 in there for sure.

I mean, certainly something that looks like the part, right? Because if you look under the hood, it's like, this is a Cobra and it looks really cool and it's really nice finish because it's, you know, not an original. So you can have some of the newer age, nice finishes and stuff. But it looks like you took it out of an 89 Mustang and just slapped it in there. I mean, I guess that works, but I would like to fill the inside with the, yeah, I like the good stuff on the inside too. Yeah. So anyway, I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for that, but it's okay. It's just, you know, my opinion. So if you want to build a cooler Cobra and you have the plan to do that, I'll help you out. And not that this customer wouldn't do that. It's just, he had other priorities and was trying to store issues, you know, and it's like, I wasn't going to bring it in and be like, we're going to solve this cooling issue by just taking the entire motor, just throwing it in the garbage. Get a new motor, solving your, that was a reasonable way to do. Yeah. So who knows? Anyway, the Cobra is cool. My favorite car in the shop. Please don't hate me, guys. I know there's a lot of heritage out there. But yeah, we get a lot of customers that have classic cars.

Sure. Do you like some pro touring builds time to time then?

I mean, it's mostly Restomod and maintenance and exhaust. We get a lot of exhaust work in here for custom.

That's cool. There's people still that want to do that whole custom setup rather than just doing that eBay Motors sort of deal.

I mean, as the quality of the products go down over time, I think everybody's starting to learn that there's a better way to do it. It's just like going and you want to... For an exhaust system on a car, especially classic, it's like one of the most notable features of the car.

Yeah.

And it's just, you know, if you want to make a presentation for yourself, it's like getting a suit. You're not going to go buy a suit at JCPenney. You want a custom tailored suit.

Yeah.

So that's what we...

Let's go use some Coles catch.

Better to have that.

We took a, we had a 68 Trino that we put a 429 in one time and we took it to just get a small piece between the header and the, where we met up with the exhaust made and it was a little tight in there because we shoehorned that motor in there and they went to the muffler shop and they were like, no, we're not going to do this. So we went home and just Harbor Freight welded it ourselves. I'm sure it wasn't pretty or worked well, but it got the job done, I guess.

I always like hearing about your past.

Yeah.

Hey, I mean, I drove that car to prom, 4-speed, 429.

There's an H pattern here, right? Still? Yeah. These are PPG. That's pretty awesome.

Yep.

How long have you been running to PPG stuff in here?

I mean, probably like 10 years now.

Really? That's awesome.

It's been a long time.

They're Australian, right?

They are in Australia.

Yeah.

Yeah. Again, the cost of ordering these parts overseas is just crazy. It's like an extra $1,000 for a gear set or actually like $1,500.

That's insane. Hopefully you're not switching those out too often.

This year, it's been, you know, it's been a learning curve for sure.

For the audience, he just had a deep sigh and then really, really got nervous.

Yeah, no, I'm actually trying to get ahold of them right now for some backup parts in my backup trans that's currently open.

For a for woke up, just have a backup.

Yeah. Okay.

I mean, how do I guess is because you're having a backup.

Have you been through like, how many backups are you taking?

No, no, no, no, no. Like what? Because obviously you have to service your engine every however many, was it 10, 20 passes roughly?

Yeah.

Like what is the, what is it when it comes to the transmission side of things? How often do you have to break that open and switch everything out?

I mean, usually if everything is dialed in well, you can get through a whole season and not have an issue. Sure. But if you're developing a new program and you're making a lot of changes and you're trying to push the limits hard, you break a lot of s*** and I broke a f*** ton of s*** this year. Like I, I'm not even kidding you. I blew up two. I'm like on my third trans of the season right now. Oh, wow. Yeah. Rounding off all the dogs. And some of it's because of kind of weird anomalies happening. Like a snap ring pops out of position. It's like separates the two shafts and then it just wipes out the gears. So or, you know, I have an adjustable shift bracket that's under the hood of the car. And somehow it started moving on me. So then it's not engaging the gear right. And it rounds off the gear. And so I've welded that mother in place now. So that's not going anywhere. Cause it's like, no, I know the spot. I'm not going to take that risk again. So those are the things I have.

It's always the small things that just ruin your day. Yeah.

It's not always the power level or, you know, a slight error on the driver. It's just the other supporting components that fail over time or move when they're not supposed to move or bolts or whatever, you know, just weird stuff. And things can happen when you're ripping a transmission out in the pit and slapping the back up in, which is what we did at the shootout. You know, weird s*** can happen. But we're on the strands that we slapped in there at the shootout in the pits. So not pulling it out right now.

How long does it take you to swap the trans out?

Anywhere from two, it's usually about an hour to two hours. Depending on how many people are in helping. Yeah.

Using like quick jacks or something to get underneath the car? Or what do you do?

No, I don't bring quick jacks to the track. I just bring traditional jacks and stands. Yeah, just because of capacity reasons that we don't have space on our trailer. But we do put it up in the air as high as you can and then rip that thing out. And if things go smoothly, you can get it done in an hour and everybody's in sync.

You're probably going to ship your car soon or know somebody that will. And as someone who used to work in freight logistics, I understand the difficulties of finding reliable transport, especially when trying to make it to rallies, racetracks or to warehouse to hydro Corvette because you're going through a messy divorce and when she says everything, she means everything. Anywho, Nick Shearer is the proud owner of SureThing Logistics. Having traveled much of the country with every type of vehicle you can imagine, he's got the experience and reliability that you want to ensure a safe journey for your pride and joy. If you want to find out what it takes to ship your vehicle, go to surethinglogistics.net, fill out the intake form and be sure to let him know I sent you. Let's get back to the show.

If it fights you like it did this time, because usually I'll just rip this subframe out and it gives you full access to everything much more easily and you can really dial in the pullout and the put in versus like coming in at a weird angle and twisting this trans and trying to get it in. That's when it's going to take you at least a couple hours. Okay. Because there's a lot of swearing and a lot of resetting yourself.

Throwing up wrenches. Yeah.

What do you do, box breathing? How do you get yourself back to zero?

Red Bull.

Red Bull? Okay. That won't work for me. Yeah.

Red Bull.

Okay. So here's a question that's kind of lingering in the back of my mind, right? Because when we travel to these shops, we see these various platforms and we get to have an understanding of what it costs. If you wanted to run a seven-second Evo, if you want to build a seven-second Evo, if I wanted to start today with today's prices and I were to go to a shop, I mean, all of a sudden then what would it take to get to this?

I mean, realistically, you need at least six figures. That's, you know, you're in the six-figure area. Yeah, it's as close as I can come on it.

Yeah, let's say we include a car. Would you start with a roller or would you start with like a running car or?

I mean, it just depends that, you know, to answer that question. Certainly, if you got a running car that's a roller, that'll help. That'll help because it's, you know, less extra little odds and ends and, you know, the last 10% of the build takes 90% of the time. Right. So if you can have something that fills all the little gaps already, that's going to speed up the process. But to run that kind of time, you need all tubular subframes, you need, you know, a $25,000 motor, you need $15,000 transmission set up, you know, with a clutch set up on it, you need a proper suspension, you need a turbo kit that's custom.

Right.

You know, put a question mark on that price.

I mean, Apex Turbos, I mean, I like to go on their website time to time, and it's like, get one of those, and you have to make a kit for them.

I mean, you want to, if you're really going to go as fast as like this car, you should have a 6.0 certified roll cage. That's $36,000 right there.

Okay. How come we've never asked that question before? What's it cost to make a 6.0 cage? Interesting. What's, okay, so you do a-

At least that are the way that we like to do it. And I would love to, you guys will have to see this Canadian car, but we're talking about a cage that's like, meets all the requirements, but has way more bells and whistles than you could ever dream of.

Sure.

With the parachute set up on it and the way the seat mounts and how it's got an integrated drive shaft loop that goes through the floorboard, all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, that's, you're already like almost at six figures right there. We haven't even put labor into like- That's before they put it in the goddamn car. So, and then you got to put time into it to tune it. ECU, you know, wiring, f*** that, right? But I mean, we're doing all this stuff. And, you know, that's what it's going to take. Doing it at a level where I want it and, you know, where it's almost bulletproof in the sense, and it's got like quick release on it so that you can f****** rip this thing out and not have a damn pinch wire. That's different, you know, we're clearly moving towards that. But I mean, that's, yeah, six figures is where you should start. Yeah.

I guess that's where it starts for about anything now.

But like with this platform, I'm sure there's guys out there that run seven seconds with the Mustang that's got ten grand in it because they've done the bare minimum and they have a setup that's allowing them to do that. And that's fine. I'm sure that's probably a really far fetch as far as numbers go. I don't know if anybody's running sevens at that $10,000 level, but anybody that watches this video and is like, the hell it is, six figures, there's always going to be that.

Oh, yeah.

And I invite you to show me and prove me wrong. And I'm probably wrong. And I'll be more than happy to admit it if you show me. But in my experience to do things at this level, especially the way we do it, which is not only looking good, but performing the way it looks, it's going to cost you big dollars. Yeah.

I would say with the Mustang platform, 10 gets you boost, but that's about it all it gets you. But for 30, I bet you could get seven.

Yeah. You wouldn't believe how many guys I get calls from with Mustangs. And I'm like, they're like, I want to boost this thing. And I'm like, where should I start? Like, what is it going to cost me? I'm like, at minimum 15.

They're like, I'm like, 10 grand just gets you the blower or the turbo kit. That's, that's where you start. I mean, that's what it's going to cost.

I'm telling you, today's prices are absolutely great.

Well, you go to like Manuel, right? Like his, what did Caleb get his kit for? I think it was like-

It was around 10.

10, but then-

I don't know if we should advertise the actual price, but there he's a little slightly over 10.

I think it was 10 to 15 roughly.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, it's like that's, and that was maybe for 800, 900 horsepower cable car. Like, you know, it's like, or truck, whatever. No, I mean, it ain't cheap. Fast ain't cheap.

No. And then let's not also forget that if you're doing something at a seven second level, you're not driving the car back to the pits. You need another vehicle to push it or pull it. At minimum, you need to spend, you know, five, six grand on a golf cart and send it up to push it back.

You got your think.

Yeah.

When you go full race car, we're using that thing.

Yeah.

And it's, and it doubles for when we take out the Porsche or yeah, because like we got to take out the Porsche, you know, the media is using the media team gets to, you know, pull that out of the trailer and drive all over the place and set up to take the shots they want on the track. Thank God for a bit, I guess I could pull it back because it does have a, you know, tow hook if I hurt it or needed it.

How is that going for you, by the way? How you, are you comfortable with yourself as a driver now? Are you happy with where you're at? You want to get more seat time still?

Or are you going to sell it?

Yeah, I mean, I drive this car on the street a lot and I love it. It's a very impressive car. And I'm more than confident in my abilities with it. I have a background in racing, road racing as well and karting. And that's right. I remember the karting thing. Yeah. So like when I first told people I was going to go off through, like, you should get a box or something like cheap. Learn the platform, you know, learn how to road race before you get something. And like you guys, this is not my first rodeo. Yeah. So I took the car and went to Autobahn, took it to Blackhawk, went to Gingerman. I'm planning on taking up to Road America, just to kind of learn the local circuits that I'm going to be competing on when I compete them, compete with them. And that's what we spent this year doing. Next year, I'm going to be signing up for all kinds of competitive time attack events where we can swing door hat in the ring and see what we're doing.

Want to get him up for Optima Streetcar?

Yeah.

That would be sweet.

And if North Star Speed Summit's still around, that's not a bad one either.

Yeah.

Maybe. We'll see.

But I wasn't trying to go throw myself, especially in this thing, in competitive space, without at least learning the track layouts, learning the ropes of the car, the limits of the car, getting confident with it. And that's part of having fun with it too.

I think you'd have a blast on Optima Streetcar. That'd be pretty sweet.

That's something to look into.

Yeah, because Road America is right over here. And then what's the next one? Did they host one on Gingerman as well, I think?

I thought they did, but I don't know. They do one down here. They call it Prison something or other. They do one here, Blackhawk too.

But then Gridlife is probably the main one.

That's what I'm looking at too.

Yeah, I'm curious which one would be more bang for buck. But either way, it's like you're trying to go competitive with two cars. I mean, that's time consuming. So hats off.

Yeah, and at a high level too. I'm not trying to go into some entry level class with this thing. Right.

You don't want to be raising this guy. Actually, you're at top of the middle field, I think.

I always come middle of the pack. Every event that I do, I'm just right there. I don't suck and I'm not great either. I'm very average.

Yeah. I mean, you don't want to enter something that you can't be competitive anyway. It's like throwing yourself into a fight. It's not something you're going to win. It's a stupid idea. Yeah. So, I mean, I've been spending a lot of time at these GPS time track events. Shout out to Jimmy over at gpstracktime.com, because he's the one hosting all these time events that I'm going to at all these tracks. And I can in the background see and share with some of my trusted resources in the industry. I'm like, this is what I ran best time at this track with this. And they're like, you got some work to do or you should definitely go see where you end up with this group, you know? So that's where I wanted to get on each of the tracks. And that's where I'm at. Now I want to go put our brand in front of the crowds and see if we can have a good reputation like we do with this thing.

Yeah.

Is there much left that's stock on this car?

No. I mean, it's, you know, it's getting more tubular over time.

Sure.

Well, we got to start painting on tail lights instead of having real ones.

How do you know those aren't painted?

It's a good paint job.

They are painted tail lights, but they're not painted like on. Those are the original like Euro style Evo tail lights that I masked off and painted to look like the JDM, more traditional look using that like nightshade stuff. Oh, okay. Yeah. And then, you know, clear coat it so it.

Does it looks, if you painted that lens, it looks really good.

Thank you.

I did.

These are painted.

Yeah.

Yes, they are. That was back in the garage when I was bored and had no kids. Yeah.

Those projects are probably few and far between the nowadays.

I'm about to be custom, you know.

Let's see, what else is on the docket over here? So you got some fun projects over back there. You have that, you said it was a first generation DSM back there?

Yeah. So we have, it's not here in the facility because it's over at the paint facility at the moment. But it's actually, it's in Quebec, it's from Quebec, Canada. It's a GSR4 Eclipse, which we all know mostly as the GSX. But that's the Euro Japanese model. So it's much more rare and it's a very clean specimen. And it came here to us because it's literally getting revamped top to bottom, even more than this car ever was, to be of this level and more. And he's got all the parts like in a box. Matter of fact, those are all the parts that he just sent me on this pallet for a backup motor. So he's trying to build a program just like ours, where he's going to go around and compete with us and be a teammate and he's getting himself set up for success for all the things that can happen.

Has he got anything right now or is he just like, hey, I just want to drag race? He's been doing it a little bit with something else.

I mean, he's been in the cars and racing, he's got an Evo and we're going to be doing his, when he's done, he's dropped the Evo off for that, after he picks this one up. But he's never raced in something like this. So it's going to be, we're going to train him. He's driven this car back from the past to the pits while being pushed by the golf cart. But you know, that's the process that you go through with this stuff. You've got to learn how the program works, how to set up yourself for success with your team, the equipment you're going to need and how to do it. Cause like even just pushing the car with a golf cart is not as simple as it sounds. Cause once you get it on an angle, if you don't correct it right, things get all, you know, jackknifed and stuff. And going reverse is even harder. And when you're getting pulled out of the pits, you're going in reverse. So you need to know when to turn and when to stay straight, cause otherwise you look stupid. And ask me how I know.

I was gonna say, how do you know?

Yeah, we went through something at World Cup last year, which was funny, but not funny.

Yeah, not fun for you.

It's so tight there. There's so much going on. So like when you take up the aisle and stop traffic, like people get upset and it was a total Austin Powers deal. We just couldn't get the right angle and get it out far enough. And it got to the point where it felt like there were so many people trying to get involved. There's too many cooks in the kitchen. It was like, damn it. We looked like idiots.

It's like being at the boat launch and everybody's watching you.

Same thing, except you're on the world stage there.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, that's kind of that's how it works. I mean, I learned how to do this because I've been doing it forever. And even then, it, you know, it takes some mentoring from your other friends and trusted mentors that are ahead of you to get more comfortable.

Yeah.

So as we kind of go into World Cup, who are some competitors, whether you're going to be racing against them or if they're in different classes that you respect or to keep an eye out on? Who should we be watching this year?

I mean, you guys are going to love watching our classes here because it's a 32 car field. Normally the stick, the stick class is the most exciting, spectacular class hands down and it's advertised that way. Because there's just, it's so many variables, anything can happen, it's anyone's game. And it was full, like so fast that they ended up expanding the field and letting 32 cars register for it.

What was it before, 16?

Yeah. And it's like orange man bad from Granis Racing. He's, you know, it's Granis stick shift. So he's owned the world's fastest stick car for many years, but not current. You got Grubworm, who's the current or was the most recent stick world record holder. You've got Nicole Mann, who's that black as 10 pick up with the purple wheels. He won the event last year and also holds the current world record for the world's fastest stick car.

OK.

You got Cletus McFarland in Leroy. You got the other guys that I race with that own the world record for the platform are RT Motorsports and Wild Evo. You got Devin Schultz with Boosting Performance and the Red Demon. You got all the big dogs, right? So this is going to be a party. It's going to be wild. I mean, it's all killers. Every single dude in the class is a killer. When you go to World Cup, that's how it is anyway. But like you want to talk about some of the more influential, known people in the industry that race these cars that are stick. They're all there, every single one of them. So, it's gonna be one of the craziest years for sure.

I'm stoked, because like this year, like, because we're planning to do SEMA, right? And we are still doing SEMA. But I was like, I just had too many friends register for World Cup. I'm like, I cannot ignore this. Now I have to go. And I'm like, so many of our previous guests, like you were one of the previous guests, and it's like a number of others. I'm like, yeah, we gotta go. So we're gonna be going there Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

You won't regret it.

That's the bulk of it. But I think it's very likely next year, we're gonna do probably the full week. That's the goal.

I was just gonna say three days is enough, but yeah, get there all week.

Ah, what do we do at 2K this year? When do we get there? Wednesday? I think it was a five day thing.

I think we went on Tuesday, didn't we?

Yeah, I think we did like five nights.

I left earlier because I had to drop kids off with my in-laws.

That's right, yeah. So I feel like five days is portionate, but we can do it. Well, you had to shut down, do you shut down the shop?

Well, I have somebody that will be here this year.

Okay.

But that's usually we shut down the shop.

Cool. That's awesome. You had at least somebody because that's the tough part is like we have to disappear for what's called nine days, the two days before, two days after. That's pretty awesome.

Yeah, it's been really tough trying to keep momentum with the business, but also train somebody to slow down and be like, all right, here's how we use QuickBooks.

Dude, I can't believe how many people just don't take the time to just learn QuickBooks. Dude, finance is such a big part.

Well, it helps if you find someone that's intuitive and either that's already knows.

Give yourself a nice account and that's how my wife learned all of it. Our accountant is a fricking, she's amazing.

Yeah, the place I was fired from will teach people too.

Yeah, it just makes their life easier. So when you show up with the books at the end of the year, it's not a, you know, bumbled mess. So I think they like to show them how to do it.

I mean, it seems like, I mean, again, outside looking in, it seems like you kind of got your s*** together over here. Like, I mean, like, I mean, in general, like last year you did as well. But like, where does this like you're really growing up over the last year?

Last year, you gave me a bad feedback last year. I've been working ever since.

No, he's like, yeah, we had a meeting off camera. It was a problem. No, I was going to ask you all fired up. What's it called? Do you have like a business mentor of any sorts? Like, who do you lean on? Right? Do you talk to other shop owners or how does this work?

You know, in the business world, my mentor is my father, but like he is not a car guy at all. Right. Not knowledgeable about cars.

What was it that he did? He told us last year.

He's a financial planner.

Okay.

Sure. And so like from a financial standpoint, that part of it helps, but like that's such a small piece of the deal. Sure. Because even if you have financial backing or you have financials to like facilitate whatever you're trying to do, you can still f*** that up real easily. I don't have any mentors from doing any of this. Like when it comes to working in the automotive world or owning a business and running the business, I went to school for this, but there's no schooling for like how to run a shop and like manage the gray area between the front office, the guys in the back and making sure that the dots get connected.

Sure.

So, I mean, I fall back a lot, interestingly enough, on my schooling and education at University of Denver for business.

Sure.

But that only gets you so far. It's just more of like, I don't know, there's probably some, I'm ADD and you know how like certain conditions and skills.

You can hyper fixate on certain things.

Yeah. You know, so I will go through a day and I'll have a system in place. Because like I said, I give you my system for how I manage my customers, my team and making sure that everything is like recorded, you know, from materials to hours and activities. And when a problem comes up, it becomes an obsession. And until, I mean, I can't sleep when I have a problem. And this m*********** has kept me up for a long time. And that's, I guess, the best thing I can put it as. I mean, certainly, I am resourceful, and I do have a lot of trusted resources in the industry. So when there's certain things that come up in a category, I'm asking questions from, you know, bouncing things off a lot of different people. So when it came to the dyno side of things, I reached out to my friend, Adam Kennedy. Shout out to Adam. He actually is the man in charge over at IAG Motorsport, IAG, you know, the guys that build the motors and do all the Subaru work. He was originally in Colorado and had a smaller shop and had sponsored me. So, I mean, when it come to like some of the shop stuff, I guess I would say maybe Adam would be the one person I would say I could reach out to and I would consider to be my mentor and ask questions of that level. But I mean, I asked him, you know, what dyno would you buy? And I asked, you know, Mary at Mary and Keith over at All-Wheel Drive Tuning, you know, what dyno would you buy? Asked, you know, I asked a bunch of people, man. I'm trying to remember how all the different names, but, you know, it's like anything you're trying to collect as much. It's like, yeah, you're trying to be resourceful. Just like you can't go to the Internet and say, what's the best dino?

Right.

But you can talk to trusted resources. And that's kind of why I do is, you know, you go with your gut. And that's what I had to do with, you know, making the change of the program. It wasn't like I could ask somebody, should I do this? It was like, dude, I gotta f****** do this. So, yeah, I mean.

Thanks, Sons.

So, I guess to answer your question, I would say that if I had a business, performance business mentor, it would be Adam Kennedy. Sure. You know, and I'd use him very little to try and save him. Yeah, I mean, working with some of these brands and like former sponsors like Adam, when he was owning that other brand, you can see what good looks like. And obviously, we've all had bad experiences with businesses before. Sure. So you know what bad looks like to all of us.

Yeah. I had a dry burger yesterday, man. I know all about bad businesses. So one last question for me. I'm not sure if Dan has more, but so you got this Dino in here. Is that going to be more so like here you can rent this, you can bring your own remote tuner or like what's the business plan with that?

Great question. Yes.

Yes, okay. Because you're not doing any tuning yourself, are you?

Not currently.

Okay.

No. I mean, I do a little bit of tuning, but I'm not like throwing cars on the Dino at this time and doing tuning on them. So if they want to use the Dino, people can reach out to us and we have an hourly rate, which is $250 an hour right now. So like say you want to do your own tuning, you can sign our paperwork, you know, and not sign your liability side of things away and use this tool to your liking and you pay an hourly rate. If you want to bring in a tuner, you're welcome to do that. And you know, if you want us to help facilitate that and bring the tuner in and be the middleman, you know, we're happy to do that. We're trying to be a resource that offers the best available technology and tooling for tuning, which is, you know, few and far between. I don't know of anybody else in the area that has something like this. Sure. And we want to make it accessible, which means not trying to create a, you know, pyramid structure that is to our benefit. You know, it's a tool we need to obviously be compensated for for the time that's being used. But like, we're not trying to restrict people to only using us.

Right.

Or only using a certain designated resource. We certainly want to make sure you're working with somebody that's knowledgeable and not going to come in here and blow your s*** up.

Right. Well, I was going to ask, what's the... Because you're probably going to have a Honda guy or two at some point. What's the cleanup cost? Do you have a fee for that?

It goes way beyond that because if you're blowing your s*** up, you're going to need more help than just cleaning up. But fortunately, we're making educated decisions around here. We're not having to cross that path just yet.

Yeah.

Things are...

I've seen people that have... Yeah.

I mean, I would just let anybody bring in somebody. And like, my buddy who crossed the street knows how to tune. Can we rent your dyno? I'm not going to allow that type of thing. But if you've got somebody that I haven't worked with yet, but I can clearly confirm that they're a reputable resource that have done quite a bit of work for people on the street, more than happy to have them come in and use our tool. It might open up an opportunity for a relationship that I might need in the future.

Yeah.

Because it's not like I have a designated Honda tuner right now that I'm like, if you have a Honda, this is the guy I'm using.

What's your ratio of just fab work customers versus race customers? Are you hoping to build out a race program a little bit larger than what you may have going on right now?

Yeah. It's actually pretty even right now, spread of custom exhaust work, resto mods and race cars.

Okay.

It's like 35, 35, 30.

Yeah. Sure.

Then you become a one-stop shop though, now you're adding this kind of stuff in, in the play.

Yeah. I mean, we've always been about trying to do the job right and be resourceful. If it's not something we do in-house, then we'll outsource it like machine work. I don't have the machines in the facility to do machine work, so I'm going to want to use a trusted resource. Maybe one day there'll be a time where I need to bring that in-house. But you want to be able to provide the best product for your customer. That means working with resources that can do quality work in a timely manner. The cost is obviously going to be relative, and that's what we sell our business on, so it's understandable. If I can't get quality in doing things in a timely manner, then we might have to figure out something else. That's really why we did this, Liz. We needed some more capacity, but we brought in tire service and dinoing because we had a problem we needed to solve.

I think it's a great thing that you're doing in this area. Again, with how far drag away is from here, I hope to see some more faster cars coming out here.

When we did the nitrous shot on this thing and broke that record and picked up that power, I had my buddies that are ahead of us, and they're like, you're f****** nuts, Hochman. You sprayed it on the dino, and I was like, yeah. That's what this is for, man. It's ready for 4,600 horsepower. It's got all these simulations, and it's the latest and greatest technology of its kind. I sure as hell used it, and it worked. It worked well. It allowed us to level up our build. There are guys out there that have never dino tuned their cars with real race cars that are thousands, two to 3,000 horsepower, and it's because they don't feel comfortable doing that. They're worried that their s***'s going to fall off the dino. Well, come on down, strap it on. Let's see what it will really do and put it through its paces and you'll probably get the full potential of your build.

Well, that's the thing. It's like, so we had Luis on from FuelTech. I'm not sure if you saw that episode, but it's like they were a part of developing that whole launching it from a dig with 3,000 horsepower pro mods.

See, that's what I'm talking about, man. That's nuts.

Yeah. It can handle your little cute little Evo.

I'm not worried about that. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about blowing up another transmission, you know, because like this thing, it'll break doing its own thing, like the amount of load or lack of load, you know, and velocity. I don't know how it's going to respond to this.

Technically, you're supposed to put in the weight of your car and all that stuff, too, right? So it should theoretically give you the same load if it's as smart as it says it is.

Yeah. Well, I'll wait till after we come back from World Cup to test it. So that, you know, we'll have time to fix it and it's going to get serviced anyway.

Sure. What are your expectations for World Cup? What do you so given what you got going on, you haven't made any hits on this fresh rebuild yet or you have?

Well, I have, but not since we got off the dyno and like sorted out the hiccups and it made a lot more power. My goal is to just go further in the event, in the class. And if I can come home with a new best time, personal best, that's really what I wanted out of the season. Like we went, we made it through three rounds last year at World Cup.

And what is it going to be? Five this year?

I think there's going to be more than that.

No, I mean, for the stick shift class or?

Yeah. I think there's like eight rounds. Okay. But, you know, obviously I'm going with the expectation and the goal to try and win stick. And I'm going to try and manifest that and put myself in the mindset that this is something that's going to happen and it is possible because it is anybody's game. But like deep down inside, you got to have a goal that you want to be content and it's worthwhile. You're making the trip. It's not like, and I don't want to get knocked out first round and I'd like to see myself go further than previous years. So I think two years ago, I went made it into the second round. This last year, I made it in the third round. If I can make it fourth round, I'm making progress. And I'd really like to capture like a seven five or better. Like I'd really like to see like a seven four. Okay, I'm not trying to be too greedy because that's three tenths. You know, if I can do a seven four, that's three tenths ahead of where I've been so far with the car. Right now, the world record is a seven two.

I was going to ask, was that the S10?

No, for this platform, it's another Evo. Okay. Yeah.

What about in the stick shift altogether? What's the fastest car in a stick shift class?

That's the S10.

Yeah. What did they get for a time? What do you know?

Nick, don't hate me if I got this wrong, but I want to say it's like a six four.

Okay. Holy s***. Yeah.

That's nuts.

At that level of second is.

Ooh, it could be like six two. But I mean, these guys are just, they're doing like 230 miles an hour.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, on that note, because I know you have your appointment coming up here just any minute. Do you want to pop the usual three, Dan?

Yeah. All right. We'll see if this is different from last time. But at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guests to pick three cars. I need a track car, daily driver and a show car. You have an unlimited budget. Weld together whatever you want.

Okay. So drag car, track car, show car, R8 right here.

Yeah.

And then road car would be 918 Porsche. Okay.

So drag car, show car, 918 is the daily.

Okay.

I think these are the same answers.

Yeah. I know this one was definitely in the mix last time. I'm pretty sure that one was again too. Yeah.

And a daily because you drove around Hamilton collections, old 918, right? I think.

I had an opportunity to test drive that one after we finished the exhaust on it. Yeah. Cool. I mean, Porsche is top tier in my mind when it comes to these cars. The platforms are crazy. Amazing. Sweet. And having an opportunity to drive that one was, yeah, something I'd love to repeat.

On that note, where can everybody find you?

They can find us in Wheeling, Illinois. They can find us online. Hochman Fabrication and speed.com. And obviously, on our social media pages, we're on Facebook, Instagram. We've got a YouTube channel. So check us out there. You can see all the cars in action. All of these cars are racing in videos on that channel. So if you ever want to see them. And cool. Maybe you'll catch us at World Cup.

We'll see you there.

And PRI.

Cool. Dan, you can find you a gun at garage, two hands, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thanks for existing and we'll see y'all next time. Thank you again for making this happen, Ben. I'm glad we got, we'll see where we're at next year.

Thanks for coming back and revisiting us.

Thanks for having us. Thanks again for watching the show, guys. Be sure to go into the description down below and check out all of our sponsors. They are what make this show possible. It allows us to travel the country and talk to some really cool guests. So be sure to check them out and see y'all next time.