180. Katech Engineering, Rapson Performance Group, Technology in Racing w/ Mark and Lynn Rapson

This episode is brought to you by 6XD Gearbox. More on them later. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide podcast. I'm your host, Harris AKA. Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations. And we are here for day two of PRI continued. Here with Dan, Mr. Gunnigarage.

I am.

Ford enthusiast. We're back talking to some GM people again.

I know. Right. Last time we let Howard set everything up for us.

That'll do it. And we are here with Mark and Lynn of Rapson Performance Group. It's been a long night last night, so I'm regretting all my life choices right now. But nonetheless, go ahead. Give us an introduction of yourselves, a little bit about your past, where you're at today, and we'll just kind of go from there.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Appreciate you having us on. And we'll talk a little bit. We've got a lot of exciting stuff going on. So again, name is Mark Rapson, right? Been in the industry well over 30 years, probably longer than I want to admit. You know, I have an extensive background in automotive, but not always in high performance automotive, right? I have a degree in polymer chemistry. So my early years of automotive was developing automotive paint products and protection products for the OE and the aftermarket, right? I worked for PPG Industries, Axon & Bell Coatings, did a lot of stuff like that. Grew up in a racing family. So the performance side of it was a natural fit, because ever since I could remember doing anything, my father was taking me to the racetrack, right? So the performance side was a natural evolution of life growing up, and the career side was more on the chemistry side of it and developing things. But all those things kind of rolled together over time, right? And after, well, I guess it was about 15-odd years ago, I took a retirement package from Axon & Bell Coating and went deep dive into the automotive side of things, right? And Lynn and I formed a company in 2022 called Rapson Performance Group. And we have a lot of different technologies that we bring in. Some of it's the polymer stuff, some of it's specialized platings that we use in indie car and other forms of racing to reduce parasitic drag, gain performance, all the secret squirrel stuff that all the race teams use. And then I ran another performance company for about 10 years, right? And then in 20 of September of last year, we left that and went full time into Rapson Performance Group, started bringing up all of our technologies together. And then just recently, we closed on Katech Engineering. That's been our biggest acquisition of all of our businesses within our portfolio. And we brought all of our technologies, all of our activities into Katech to start further developing those things, right? Sure. And I'll let Lynn talk about herself, but we fit together perfectly because we met at a racetrack. So, she comes from the performance world and that's how we met. So, us being partners and all, this is kind of a perfect fit for everything.

Sure. And how do you fit into this mix?

Well, I too have been in the automotive industry in different segments for about 28 years. And I started with Maguires out in California. I was the rep for Oregon and Washington for some of their lines to start and then moved to Southern California and worked directly with the headquarters for events and things like that. Later on, I moved on and have done all sorts of things in the industry, mostly marketing and events and that type of thing.

Okay.

So, I have a strong base as far as that. Mark and I, like I said, we came together at a racetrack years ago. We're now married. We became really great friends and that migrated into a great partnership, marriage, and here we are with Rapson Performance Group and Katech Engineering is our, like you said, our new snack.

Both gearheads.

Yeah. So, I'm a true car girl. I have a 1967 Chevy Tunova. Yes, I do work on it myself. I just enjoy the industry. I enjoy the technology, the advancements, and one of my favorite things about Katech is the legacy, and I can not wait to share more of that with everyone as we move forward.

So, when you say you guys met at a racetrack, I'm hearing a lot of business. You guys have been in this industry forever on a business aspect. Are you guys racing then too at these things or just hanging out there on business side of things?

So, a little both. So, we were both there on business. She worked for the company in the automotive car care stuff. I was on the performance side, and there was an event in Norwalk, Ohio. Right, at Summit Motorsports Park, and she was hosting for the company that she worked for. And I actually, the company I was working for hosted the overall event at that track. And I don't remember all the exact details, but that's kind of how it all came together. And like I said, it all started off as just becoming good friends. And we crossed paths a lot at the races because we were both in the same space, same events and all that, and it just evolved from there.

What was your time with Maguires like? Because they're not a small name by any means. I've been using their spray wax since I could hold a handle and spray it on a car.

My favorite thing about working with them was events. And I loved going to the shows, talking to the guys about different things, about cars, teaching detailed classes. And I stayed in that segment of the industry. After I left Maguires, I ended up at Adam's Polishes. Taught detailed classes all across the United States. He even sent me to Hawaii for a show. So I just really enjoy the people aspect of it, and teaching people how to better their cars, their finishes, and same thing with the performance side of it. I've had people say, hey, will you prep my car for SEMA? No, but I'll show you how. That's a lot of work to prep somebody's car. And I'm very meticulous when it comes to things like that. So it kind of all fits together. I don't race. That does not mean that I have not had my Nova on the racetrack or done a little autocross. But I have a strong passion for it. And we might see if we can do a few things to the Nova at Katech and see what happens from there.

We'll make some improvements to the Nova.

What's all done to the Nova?

It's actually an older Restomod. It has a 400, bored over to a 406. Does not have power steering. Remember, I did say I did autocross, so that was fun.

Yeah, I bet. Oh my God.

I took it down the drag strip. Nobody was watching me that day, so it was OK.

And it's a really bad a** car.

It's a lot of fun. It's black. My license plate is Car Girl. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I've had it. I actually had it before Mark and I got together. So sure. Yeah.

I love seeing women in this industry as I have. So my wife has a pro-charged Mustang. I have three daughters. They're all very much into this whole thing. So it's it's your oldest daughter's here with us. Yes. Yeah. My oldest is 15. She races snowmobiles and she's out wandering the floor right now.

So well, on that point, and I feel the same way about it's really cool to see the women coming up to it, right? So through Katech, we built a motor specific to the USAC series midget racing, right? And we're working with Mark Daly as a race team to put the motor into the car. But one of our drivers is Abby Holbein. And I hope I didn't screw up her last name. A very young, very talented girl coming up through the ranks. Just a fantastic talent. And, you know, she's she'll be running a big series someday. You could just see that. So she's one of our drivers to support our program with USAC. So it's just very cool.

Absolutely. I think it's all the social media stuff we're seeing more and more of it too. And there's a lot more women getting into it. And I think it's great.

Yeah, for sure.

So what does what's Katech? What do you guys do?

Katech's been around since 1977. They were originally formed by a couple of engineers that in conjunction with General Motors. So when General Motors started getting into serious racing for Le Mans and IMSA and things like that, they did not have an internal performance group. So Katech was their performance engineering deal. So all from 77 to probably 87, all of the motors that were in all of the General Motors race cars all over the world were all built and supplied and engineered and validated all through Katech. So just a huge racing heritage, racing history, specifically more tied to GM. GM then in sort of probably the early 90s started bringing some of that stuff in house. So Katech pivoted a little bit, still continuing the racing heritage, but then broadening the horizons a little bit into what series they're into, what motors they were doing, got heavily into the Trans Am series, a little bit more into some of the international series. And to this day, fast forwarding a little bit, that's still the biggest portion of our business. So motor sports, true hardcore racing motor sports, for IMSA and Trans Am and a lot of different series like that, we build all the motors for all those cars all over the world.

Oh wow.

And it's not just, nowadays it's not just pigeoned into GM. We do stuff for Nissan and other companies as well.

So that was going to be my next question, because you guys seem very heavy in the GM stuff.

Well, GM's where we started, right? That's our heritage, right? But over time, we've evolved. So the chassis builders, like LeGier, that we work with, they use other engines in some of their cars for different series, but Katech does the service work on them and stuff like that. So we're involved with some of the other manufacturers. Obviously GM's still our biggest portion of business, but yeah, we're really hardcore racing. We do some street performance stuff, but it's a small portion of our business by comparison, right? We're more about the hardcore racing stuff. We engineer everything in house, we manufacture everything in house, and we assemble, we put the cars together. We've got two LMP3 cars in our shop right now, getting assembled for next year. So we're more on the hardcore side of it, not as much on the consumer side of it. Although a lot of what we do on the racing side of it carries over to the consumer side of it, right? Because what we validate is, win on Sunday, sell on Monday kind of deal. And that really is true.

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It really is true. People don't think that really works, but it does work, right? When one of your vehicles is out and it wins at some particular event that somebody follows, your phone rings on Monday morning because they're looking at upgrading their car and stuff like that.

Right. How big is your facility? How many employees do you guys have?

So we have 30 employees. The facility is a little over 40,000 square feet, 41 something, in that range like that. And again, we have the manufacturing section of our facility. We have 12 CNC machines and there's pretty much nothing that we can't make. We have three in-house full-time engineers that do all of the design work, right? And we do a lot of private label outside work as well, that do all the design work. And then we've got our engine facility that does all the assembly, builds all the engines for the race teams. And then we have our car shop, which is where we do some of the street performance stuff and assemble some of the race cars. So if we don't ship the motors someplace in the world, the cars will come to us and then we'll upfit the cars and get them track ready for the different series.

Okay. What are some of these other, so obviously group, we discussed that before here. What are some of, is any other brands we might be familiar with that you guys are a part of?

Well, we do a lot of work with a lot of companies. So, we're not solely KTEP. We partner up with a lot of stuff aside from the motor manufacturers. We do a lot of work with the other supply companies, whether it be Magnuson or Calis. We have strategic alliances with a lot of these companies. So when we're doing development work, we're doing development work in conjunction with these companies. So we're not just buying parts from them. In many cases, we're helping engineer new parts for other people through the different processes that we do. So we have a very strategic alliance with a lot of the suppliers that are here at the show, whether it's connecting rod people, crankshaft, blocks, all that type of stuff. So it's not just OEM type stuff. We do a lot of aftermarket engineering or outside engineering as well. But it's fun because we use the street stuff is some halo type stuff for the racing applications. Everybody wants something that's actually used in race cars. That's a real important thing. They just want something that everybody else can buy. They love working with stuff that actually came out of a racing series. So that's fun for us to translate or transfer what we're doing there from the other companies into what people can buy for their own cars.

Yeah. Well, it's kind of like what the OEs do when there's an Indy Pace car or whatever. Everybody's... You have to make so much for the consumer as well because people want a piece of that.

Exactly. We support a lot of consumer type series like Optimal and street cars. That's a big series. We support a lot of vehicles that are in those. So those are more street performance cars. They have a lot of our racing technology in them, but we won the championship through Austin Barnes last year with a C5 Corvette with our products in it. So we support a lot of the, what I'll call consumer performance series or things that the consumers go to in the different tracks. And we'll be doing more of that next year along with just the hardcore stuff, right?

So, okay.

Are you done with your?

Yeah, I'm good.

That was a long string of questions.

I know, I know.

What's it called? So obviously you guys are acquiring companies and you're, what are you preparing for in the next two or three years? Like where is this? Obviously you're kind of gearing up to fast track something here. What does the next two or three years look like for you?

So there's a period going on right now where there's some, a lot of changes in technology, right? There's a lot of things out there that come from different industries that are migrating their way into what I'll call the automotive space or the industrial space. And with my background, I've always kept in contact with all that, right? So when I see some of these things where they have, you know, where they're applicable to what we do, then I always start to explore that. So that's how some of these other technologies come into play. So I was talking about some of this plating company. I have an interest in a plating company that does a lot of, they're not coatings, they're actually platings for different types of metals that are used in a lot of different racing industries to improve the durability, reduce drag, they can run less fluids in the parts, to gain horsepower. And when you get into the big time racing world with its IndyCar and NASCAR, what they will go through for one or two horsepower is amazing.

Oh, I bet. Right?

And so, you know, the technologies that we have focus in that area, right? So we're not looking for 100 horsepower. We could be looking for 3 horsepower, but that 3 horsepower could be of huge value to one of these big race teams.

Oh, absolutely.

So the technologies are very involved in the racing world and very high tech. They're not mainstream. But, you know, again, people want to have access to that technology. So through Katech, over this next couple of years, you'll see a lot of those technologies coming out now that the consumers will have access to through our Katech or through our brands that we work with. Right. So again, it's all developed, you know, on the racing side of things. And then it all comes full circle back into the, you know, into the consumer side of it. But many of these technologies will now carry over. And they're really, they're very interesting. So some of them help mitigate heat, some reduce friction. Some are strictly at gaining horsepower. Some are just creating durability with things. Right. I do a lot of stuff on the lubrication side of things. So we've got our hands into a lot of different technologies. You know, and the Katech is perfect because it just can bring all those things together to help us validate it.

Gotcha. Is there anything you can kind of discuss? I guess with those various companies, what kind of impacts you could have on performance or longevity or whatever, or like lubricants, for example, I just mentioned. Is there anything? I guess the better question is, is that more... Do you have any OEM customers in that regard? Or is it more so just towards the race side of things?

So it's both. A lot of these technologies, they split as you go downstream into different channels, all right? So the development and the validation of these technologies are typically only used in the high performance world. They're very hardcore racing, because it's the only place you can get the data to really understand what it could do. Once you actually have the data, then you can take that data and you can start looking at the other channels that it might go into, or you start talking to the OEs and say, okay, here's what we've got. Here's what it can do. Here's can be the benefit to you from a production standpoint, right? And then the other side of that fork in the road will be the performance side. So where can we go with that beyond what we've done in the validation side to create other performance benefits to the consumer or something in the aftermarket? So it could be the same technology. It splits a little bit as you go downstream into what channels you take it into, but the OEMs are always very interested in what's going on. And nowadays, unlike years and years ago, they use the aftermarket to actually bring these things forward and validate them. It saves them a lot of time and energy. They don't have the resources that they used to have. So working with a company like Katech and working on these programs helps them understand what's out there, what will be the next generation. I've got a product that I can't tell you a lot about it, but I can tell you that it's an internal engine component that I'm working on. We're about stage six or seven of the development process. It's a replacement for a component inside the motor. It can improve the efficiencies of the motor almost 40% without making any other changes inside the motor. So as you can expect, that component is of much interest to the OEMs, not to make the car go fast, but to reduce emissions, create more horsepower off a smaller displacement motor, better gas mileage, all of these kind of things. So it's a different outlook in what the technology will do, but that's where your OEM application is. Then on the aftermarket, these guys are saying, okay, well, if you can increase that 40%, how does that relate in horsepower? So you've got two completely different splits in the road once you get down that channel a little bit. But yeah, a lot of this stuff is very interesting to the OEs because it can really go back to the coatings for a minute. Forget the horsepower. Think of the miles per gallon.

Right, yep.

You can get a car two more miles by gallon by putting this process and internal parts in a transmission or a differential or an engine or something along those lines. So that's where the OEM looks at it. They're not necessarily looking at the performance side. On my side, I'm looking at how fast it can make an IndyCar go or how much longer I can make a transmission last in some sort of a car. And the OEMs are looking, okay, well, if you can do that, it reduces parasitic drag, then I must be able to get better gas mileage. But so to your point, yes, it has a huge implication on OEMs. It's just a different thought process and the technology once you get it downstream a little bit further.

Can you explain to me in exact detail what this part is and draw me pictures with measurements of it?

I'd love to do that for you, but you know, we might have to kill you after.

We'd have to go out back after that and that wouldn't be great.

Match your cameras.

I could have just find myself.

There will be information coming out about it pretty soon. Like I say, we're far down the development stages of it. It is patented. You know, we have all that sorted out. We know it works. It's just validating the theoretical performance to a data point we can quantify when we go and talk to an OEM, for example, right? We know what it does. We have it in motors. I've got two motors up and running. I know that it works. It's not a matter of does it work or doesn't work. It's no longer just an invention.

Right.

It's now going down the final streams of validation and bringing this product. And now, like I say, we're coming to that split in a row. So once I get these data points, now I know who and how I will talk to the OEMs and I will know what we want to do on the performance side of it. I'm right at that crossroads right now, right? But we know it works. It's a really, really cool piece. I won't call it simple, but it's one of those things when you see it, you think, huh, why wasn't that thought of before?

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Right? Yeah.

You know, sometimes the simplest things could be the ones that make the biggest difference. You know, you don't have to re-engineer the whole program. Sometimes just some simple change from a well thought out design can make a huge difference in something, right? That's pretty much what this is. And people are going to love it when they see it. It looks cool as well. You don't see it. It's inside the motor. But when you see it...

Oh, like that stops people. They don't care. Yeah.

So my goal would be to have a new product here next year and win another award, if you will. But I believe it will be a game-changer in the performance market. Because if you think about things, not much has changed. You can't change internal components must change anymore, right? Things have been kind of done to the max. This is a game changer. And this will lead to some other changes. It can lead to some different things with cylinder heads. This one part can actually lead to other developments in other areas for other companies. So this could start a whole new trend in performance development, which the industry needs right now. I won't say it's stagnated, but how much more can you do with an LS or an LT motor?

Oh yeah, 100%.

We're kind of like a bit done to death, right? So how do you actually change that? And how do you get to that next cycle of things where people get excited and say, oh, okay, that's cool, but I got to have that.

Right.

Well, it's crazy what's going on right now. Like for example, in the last like year or two, everybody's talking about compressed air, or now we have these like electric turbochargers and all that stuff. The industry is always constantly changing, it seems.

Yeah.

What I was going to ask you, damn, I freaking keep losing it. What are some of the, oh, that's what I was going to ask you, for development. Was this already in development before you acquired Katech then, this particular thing?

Yeah. So through Rapson Performance Group, which has been in place for a while, some of these technologies I've already been working on, okay. One of the problems I was having is because I didn't have a Katech at that time, finding groups to help with validation, depending on what it was I was trying to do. You're working with third-party companies and I'm flying all over the place, trying to work with different groups to help. A lot of good companies out there, don't get me wrong, but it's very hard to manage those programs, it's very hard to keep things on a timeline, you're always up against whatever other things are going on within those companies. So the cycle just takes way longer. Lynn and I talked about it, I said, if we're really going to get this stuff in my lifetime on the market, we really need to start looking at having our own facility to do that type of work. And Katech wasn't on the radar screen at that time, but when I found out that Katech was potentially up for sale from the private equity group that owned them, I probed a little bit, found out that that was really true. This was over a year ago now, and I started the process. And it was a long process, worth it, 100%. But they were the perfect organization. They had all the tools, all the resources, all the people, they had the facility, everything I could ever dreamed of to bring all these things in house. And then, of course, it was the stuff that Katech was already doing, right? So this was like the perfect world for us to have Katech's, what they were already known for and already doing, then bringing all of our new technology in, then just creating a whole new dynamic within what's going on there, to not only bring these new products to fruition, but enhance the stuff that they already did, right? It took us eight months to get the acquisition done, right?

It was a long road.

I think we talked to you about it. We did this all on our own, right? We didn't go out and start looking for all of these investment groups to do it, because at the end of the day, that just ties your hands. I don't care what anybody tells you. When you get involved, and I did talk to these people, when you start going down that path, you get your hands tied. So if you really want to be able to take your vision forward, and you might have the autonomy and the control over doing these kinds of things, and I'm one of those idea guys, I'm a visionary, right? I'm not saying everything I come up with is right. All I'm getting at is that I'm constantly coming up. So in order to do that, I have to have the autonomy to do it, right? And Lynn and I sat down and said, okay, this is gonna be a big deal for us, much bigger than the other stuff that we've done. But we could do it, it's possible, it's feasible, but it's gonna take a lot, it's gonna take a while, and it's kinda walking out on a thin branch, if you will. And we just decided we were gonna go for it, and we did.

Well, and we had decided that if we were going to go down this path, we were not going to put ourselves in a position that we had partners. We did not want to do any private equity group stuff. We wanted to do this on our own, so that we had control over the destiny of ourselves as well as Katech. And our goal is to lift Katech up and make it even better than it is today, and use that legacy in where they started, and give them the support to move forward and bring in the technologies like Mark is talking about.

Not throwing everything that's going on in the industry under the bus, but companies can sort of lose their identity when they start getting caught up in big groups. And again, I'm not throwing anybody under the bus, but I've been around this a long time, and I know all of the principles and the owners of most of these companies that are now formed into other groups, and it's really tough. They start to get diluted within things. Some of the creativity goes away, because keep in mind, these companies, everybody knows the name of. It was someone with a vision in the beginning that got that name where it was, and wanted that part, and said, I've got to have this in my car, right? But it was someone's vision that started it. It wasn't some big corporation.

It starts in a garage or something, usually, yep, yep.

Exactly, so for us, and again, just from our perspective, doing this on our own with Katech allows us to, it's a bit of an old school mentality, right? Go back to, we've got visions. If we want to bring those visions forward, we have to be able to do it on our own time, and our own space, and stuff like that. So, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's fun, and we're excited, and there's a lot of energy, and there's a lot of energy in the company, so we're, yeah, it's been a cool deal.

The culture within Katech is amazing. I've never seen anything like it. The employees are excited. You know, they're thanking us for taking over and buying the company so that they can do what they want to do with the company as well, and we listen to them. I mean, we've got some great engineers. We've got some great salespeople.

Great group of people.

You know, if you go by the booth, Wheeler is one of our engineers. He's in the booth today. We've got one of the guys, the lead machinist. He's in the booth. He's talking to people. Our general manager is here, but they are just such a great group of people.

It's a family.

It is. It's a big family.

It really is.

Did you have a group of engineers you were working with beforehand, too? Did you have some collab?

Over time, I've worked with them. Not a group like I have here, right? But yeah, I mean, I've always had to have engineers involved in some of these programs.

Oh, absolutely.

But these guys understand the space that I'm trying to work in better than some of the other engineers I've worked with. I mean, engineers are engineers, a lot of brilliant people out there, but they understand the automotive engineering side of it a little bit better because that's where they lived. And our engineers are young as well. Some of them started off as interns and got hired on just based on the fact that they were very, very good people and had a really good mind around it. So, they came out of places like Kettering and things like that, and they were hired on, but they were engineers at Katech before they were ever employees. So, we're still carrying that on. I've got some, we're working on some new interns now, you know, for the next generation of engineers as well.

Okay.

Because I need to grow that.

Where are you guys based out of?

Clinton Township, Michigan.

Michigan, okay.

Yeah, we weren't too far from them.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, we went to Michigan or, I guess, Detroit land four times in the last year. So we got, we started to explore quite a bit out there.

So, yeah. Nice, nice.

Next time you're in town, you're going to have to come over and check out the place and do a little something there.

Well, it sounds like a pretty b***** facility you guys got going on there. I mean, you said 12 CNC machines. I mean, I imagine those are probably working 24-7.

Pretty much. The whole shop is, the cool part about it is it's, we've got six dyno cells, we've got the 12 CNC machines, we've got the car build shop, we've got the engineering area, we've got the engine assembly area, and it's just going constantly. When you walk in the building, you hear the engines going in the background. You know what I mean? I can't even begin to tell you how many motors are in the assembly area, whether they're stuff for LMP or Trans Am or whatever, all the series stuff that we're doing. And then you go back into the machine shop and all the machines are just running back there, whether they're doing cylinder heads or making midget motors or making oil pump. It doesn't matter. You know, they're just going constantly. We do a lot of private label stuff for companies as well. We do a lot of outside engineering things.

You forgot about the race boat engines. The race boats.

Yeah, we do stuff on the Marine side as well. Okay. Things like that. So yeah, there's it's just a really cool place. Very busy place. A lot going on in there. And it covers all aspects of it. When you come in there, it's not just to building engines. You know, we're manufacturing parts. So you're basically going to a manufacturing facility. You're going into an install facility or going into an engine assembly area, building true race engines and that you've got the dinos running out back, doing all kinds. We've got spintron machines. So everything's just tons of stuff going on. So whether we're developing new cams on the spintron or, you know, breaking in a IMSA motor to get shipped off to Europe someplace or, you know, running the midget motor at 10,000 RPM out there trying to develop something for it. It's just all kinds of stuff.

It sounds like a pretty cheap business to acquire.

Yeah, we won't even go down there.

Yeah, yeah, no, we know we talked a lot of these shops. We know what it takes to put together a facility like that. And that's it's not a small feat by any means.

Yeah, we heard what SEMA Garage costs to build. So yeah, yeah, yeah, all this stuff.

It is what it is. Right. But if you're if you're if you've got the passion for it, you've got the vision for it, then drive it forward.

Yeah. Well, we know what it takes to be a tier one supplier, too, when you want to talk, you know, dealing with the OEs and stuff. That's a whole you're talking about all of the testing and validation. You have to do and then they go through their own crazy, you know, validations and stuff themselves. So we we know it takes a lot of work.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. You know, there's there's I will say this, and it's exciting for us as well, even though we've been in industry for a long time. You know, this industry goes through its roller coaster rides and stuff, right? Whether it's economic or whatever the case may be. But it's just a good time right now. The industry is strong. There's a huge desire for new stuff right now. I think our timing for what we're trying to do is perfect right now. There's just a lot of this. Everything's really good. I think the industry is as strong as I've ever seen it in a long time. So I'm excited about all these things that we're doing because I can see all the...

That's reassuring to hear.

Oh yeah. I'm super excited. Really, really, really good timing for everybody.

You're probably going to need to ship your car soon or know somebody that will. And as someone who used to work in freight logistics, I understand the difficulties of finding reliable transport, especially when trying to make it to rallies, racetracks, or the warehouse to hydro Corvette because you're going through a messy divorce and when she says everything, she means everything. Anywho, Nick Shearer is the proud owner of SureThing Logistics. Having traveled much of the country with every type of vehicle you can imagine, he's got the experience and reliability that you want to ensure a safe journey for your pride and joy. If you want to find out what it takes to ship your vehicle, go to surethinglogistics.net, fill out the intake form, and be sure to let him know I sent you. Let's get back to the show.

Some people, you get kind of mixed reviews. It seems like it's dying, but also growing at the same time. People say that we got tracks closing, we got things like that happening, but at the same time...

You also got tracks opening up.

Right. So, I don't know, I think you can see it both ways. And maybe people are... There was a big bubble during COVID, right? I mean, everything grew up, and now maybe it's kind of back down to where it would have been naturally progressed if that had not happened.

Yep.

So we're still growing. We're just not growing at that pace anymore. So I think people get freaked out when they...

Well, I think the other thing, too, is people get stuck in a certain space with stuff, right?

Yeah.

And they're not looking, okay, what could the next thing be? They're just always looking in that same space. And when that space changes, they don't like it.

Yeah.

Right. So now they think, oh, you know, things are going downhill because...

Right.

You know, that's... They're changing something. Right. But they're not looking at the new track that's opening up. This track's closing. Okay, it's unfortunate. It doesn't mean there is an interest in other things going on. For example, these lifestyle tracks that are coming up now, you know, like thermal and places. There's more and more of those going up everywhere. That's exciting for people. That's a whole different dynamic of going to the races. You know what I mean? And, you know, the reason we did the midget motor for USAC, right? I mean, USAC, like IndyCar and these others, you see those series have the roller coaster ride strong as ever right now. Right? So it's a really good time to get involved. I mean, you don't build a whole new engine for a car series unless you see that series having a future, right?

Right.

But, you know, whether it's USAC or any of the other car series, everything is really, really strong right now. And as far as the consumer side of it, I see nothing but upside. I'm an optimist, as you can tell, but I'm always looking at the future of things. And I know there's a lot of cool stuff coming. So I know the people are going to get excited. And that's what generates the interest, right? If it's the same old stuff, people get kind of, you know, complacent in their ways. But when they see new stuff, they get excited. And that excitement drives more revenue through things. And, you know, that's the side of the cup that I'm on.

Right.

You know, they have full sides.

Well, you feel like you wouldn't see big companies doing what they're doing, thousand horsepower ZR1s and Mustang GTDs. Like, you know, there's still quite a thousand horsepower.

Hold on now. The GTD?

ZR1, I said.

You said GTDs after it.

I said thousand horsepower ZR1s and Mustang GTDs. I didn't mean that that had a thousand horsepower.

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, we round up around here.

It's a pulley and a tune away anyway.

Yeah, you're right.

There you go.

No, and you can tell from the OEMs too, they're putting a lot of effort on the performance side of it. You know, GM Racing is going Formula One.

Yeah.

They're not going to invest into the race world if they didn't believe there was a future in that, because obviously that is a marketing tool for them, right? You just don't invest in it because you want to go Formula One racing unless you're going to use that as a tool. And obviously Cadillac being their premium brand and they're trying to focus on that. Formula One being the premium race series. Put two and two together, right? It's just a marketing tool and that helps us.

Yeah, they don't like to waste money, so they're doing this is for a reason. They see a payback at some point in time.

Exactly. I'm excited to see what they're doing. I really am. I've got a lot of friends over at GM that are now on that Formula One side. It's just for me, this is the coolest thing. It really is, so.

Have you visited any other crazy facilities? Was Katech the number one acquisition on the top of your list, or was there anything else that caught your eye in the last few years?

Katech was not on my acquisition list because I didn't know they were for sale. That came into play somewhat by accident. I had been to a lot of different facilities because I work with a lot of different companies. A lot of what business that I do is down in North Carolina, only because it's race mecha engineering mecha of the world. A lot of the technology stuff that I do, or the race team stuff that I do, it's all based in Charlotte area. I go down there a lot and I work with a lot of people down there. There's facilities that I spend time with and I love the area. That was an avenue that I was going to pursue a little bit more in the early stages of it. But then once Katech kind of came to light that that was an option or that was available and there was a possibility that Lynn and I could acquire that. Since we already live in Michigan, it's a much easier transition. Plus Katech had all the right resources. So, I'm still doing things with the teams and the companies down in Caroline and some stuff out in Utah. So that hasn't gone away. But our core business now is all brought back to Michigan and through Katech, right? So, now I'm using those facilities as kind of, you know, a sort of extension of what we do for Katech. If it makes sense, you know, not to bring all that stuff back, you know, we work back and forth between them. But I haven't made any acquisitions down there. They're just partners or just companies that have a great long-term relationship with what we're doing. So, Katech was the perfect company for us when it came to light that it was available. And that's why we pursued it, right? So, yeah, so, you know, that's kind of our home base. That's the core of everything we do, if you will.

What would be your next biggest one? I mean, is it all automotive based? Or you guys don't own like a, you know, you make some kind of widget for vacuum cleaners or anything? Or is it?

No, no, it's just vacuum cleaners. I mean, because of Lynn's background on the car care side of it, we have a company called Rhinomotive that we work with. And Rhinomotive is a, they make car care products. It's an international company. It's big everywhere in the world except North America. And it's part of a Middle East company. So not going into other details, but we have some things that we have going on in the Middle East as well that we do. And while we were over there this past year, one of the brands that they have, Rhinomotive, with all these car care products, they were interested in bringing those products here. So we agreed that we would help them launch their products here. So on a completely separate business paddle, and Lynn leads most of that because of her background, we brought all the Rhinomotive products in. We work with commercial car washes, which is a huge growing industry in the US right now. Huge. So all the consumables that go through these car washes is just a huge market. Rhinomotive makes all of those consumables for those. So not just the customer, you know, detail sprays, but the consumables for car washes and industrial type stuff like that. So that's just another portion of our business portfolio that we have as well.

Yeah, so it's not actually acquisitions when it comes to things like that. It's more relationships and them needing someone that has our experience.

Or interests partnerships in them. We don't own the company.

It's like a sharing situation, probably, right?

Right, right.

That's a big portion of what some of these other technologies are. Because the IP is sometimes owned by other people.

Yeah, yeah. So we did launch Rhinomotive North America at SEMA. And I headed up the booth for that. And things are going well with that. But as far as purchasing the company, like you said, an interest in the company. But Katech is our core. That's where our heart is.

Okay.

So for us, honestly, continuing new technologies to bring back into our core is really where I'm at. There's so much out there right now. Consumers don't even have any idea of what's actually out there that's potential for what we do, right? The plating, for example, that I'm working with on the automotive side of things was originally invented for the military. It had been used in the military for 50, 60-odd years. Nobody knew about it. But it was a controlled technology. It was used for military. And then as things evolved and different technologies came into play for the military, this technology became available to use for other means. Right? So we got the okay to use it, you know, all that kind of stuff. But there's a lot of things like that. All these nanotechnologies you hear about for different things, those all were typically some sort of industrial and military inventions that people are just now starting to hear about, you know. The SR-71 plane flew 50 years ago, nobody even knew about it. Now titanium is second nature, that plane was built out of, nobody even knew what titanium was. So all I'm getting at is there's a lot of technologies that are out there, right? And since I'm one of those guys that is always looking for all that stuff, as I find these things and if they're applicable, then I start looking at how I could reuse those or repurpose those for the industry we're in. So that's the coolest of it. That's what's going to get people excited.

Just start digging through the military's trash bin and seeing what they're ready to throw out next.

Yeah, I guess in a roundabout way.

We're trying to keep him out of jail. He is a technology geek though.

Yeah, I kind of am that.

GPS is a big one that I always think about, right? That was the system they used for a long time. And then next thing you know, every minivan's got a TomTom or a Garmin in it.

It's the same thing. There's a lot of that out there, more than people could ever imagine. It's just finding it and then if you do find it, do you have access to what all the details are? But most of what you see now, new technology wise, is all things that have been out there for a long time. It wasn't invented yesterday kind of deal. It's just making it applicable to whatever it is you're doing.

Yeah.

So how about on a day to day level, right? With your backgrounds, are you still doing a lot of work on a ground level? Are you just kind of overseeing everything? What does that look like for both of you?

Yeah. I mean, so Lynn looks after all of their marketing, all of the e-commerce, all of that. That's her specialty. Sure. From my perspective, Katech didn't need fixing. We have a great group of people, the company is a very solid organization. For me, it was just helping get things in place to build it. Adding new things into it. I say bringing these technologies in, working with the engineers on the new stuff that I've got going on, giving them up to speed, figuring out how we're gonna get into our very busy schedule, all these new things that Mark wants to work on, right? Yeah. And then just getting all that stuff in place. And I'm also one of those people that plan. So I have a business plan for everything, right? You've got to have the economic structure in place, right? So you can be an idea guy, but not all those ideas are gonna bring money to the table. So we've got plans in place for all that. And then we're trying to get that organized with things who are already in place with Katech, and then start the growth path, right? I mean, I see us easily doubling what Katech is in a very short period of time with everything we've got going on, right? The infrastructure is there. And like I say, we'll start adding on and building as these things start coming about. But next year is going to be a really big year. So next year, you'll have to come to visit us sometime, for sure. Because all of these things that I'm being kind of elusive about will start to shed more light on me. You'll start to see some of this stuff, right? And you'll start to be able to see the physical things actually happening. Even if they're not ready for market yet, they'll be to a point where you can actually see what's next and what's coming. And that's the kind of stuff you guys would have fun with as well.

We've had a few of those conversations these last two days, where it's like, I'd tell you, but I'd have to take you on the backyard, put you down. So, yeah, it seems to be, again, the excitement in this industry right now. I'm feeling it, especially here, like compared to last year, especially like...

Yeah, well, they set attendances up quite a bit.

Yeah, who was saying that to the last guest, right?

Yeah, Jamie.

Yeah, we had Jamie Meyer on for this.

Yeah, I know Jamie very well, yeah.

Yeah, but no, it's definitely exciting to see that. One thing I want to ask, so what's the ideal customer, especially for Katech, right? Is there like a particular customer or any clients that you guys are trying to get, or that you already have? What does that look like?

Well, we're expanding into the race series even more. So like I say, we're involved with IMSA. Well, in IMSA, there's a lot of different series within the IMSA, right? So we're growing our presence there.

Sure.

We're trying to grow our presence in some of the other series. Like I said, I'm doing things in IndyCar, and there'll be some stuff coming up in a couple other series. So we'll get Katech more involved with that.

Sure.

But from more of a consumer facing side of it, we're looking for the more serious, high end build customer, the guy that really is going to go tracking with his car, the guy that is really looking for something that comes from the real racing technology stuff, not just looking for some casual power adders to the car. Nothing wrong with those guys, but we're not the cars and coffee kind of people, right? We're a bit more of the guy on the weekend that's going to go on cars and coffee. He's going to the racetrack, whether it's a drag track or a road racetrack, and he's going out there to compete in something. That's what he's doing, right? And we support that. So, aside from just building stuff for these series, our engineers go to the tracks, the different series, and we have support, right? So we have an engineer that does just IMSA, we have one that just does Trans Am, we have other guys that will go to, because sometimes there's overlap between the, like the Optima cars and the Trans Am, so our engineer will be there to support the Trans Am series, but he's over there supporting the consumer side of things as well. So, you know, we're present at the tracks as a support mechanism, whether it's engine or suspension or whatever, you know, we're there supporting the series and the industry, so our customers are at the track, I guess, is where I'm trying to go with it, right? We're not the weekend warrior stuff, as much as we are the true enthusiast, the true track people, and those are the people that we're looking for, those are the people we want to help, those are the people we want to build cars for. The car that's in our booth over is a perfect example. It's a really nice C6 Corvette. It is plated, and it is a street car, but it is as hardcore as you can get, and this guy goes tracking with the car, right? That's the customer that we really want to.

Sure, okay.

So...

Yeah, I run the Optima series, just the Road America one mostly because it's closest to me, but yeah, Trans Am runs the same time, so it's kind of exciting. I get off the track, and then I get entertainment to watch while I'm in between stuff, so yeah.

I loved watching those guys. That was really cool.

Yeah, that's intense.

So, if you've ran Optima, Lynn has probably judged your car.

Oh, really?

I've judged a lot of cars. I have things to say.

If you've ever gone through D&E with your car, Lynn has judged your car.

If you've gone through D&E, I have judged you. I'm not an easy judge.

I just want to drive and I get there and I got to talk about my car. Normally, it's not hard for a car guy to talk about his car, right? But it's weird when it's in this end.

You don't do well under pressure, though.

I will say, all of those Optima guys that are listening, I'm going to hold up five fingers. And that means if you've done nothing to your trunk, you get a five. So, the easiest way to get some extra D&E points is do something to your trunk. It's about the easiest thing you can do. I've told all the guys that. It's so easy.

To your trunk, you said?

To your trunk. A stock trunk is a five. If you pull the carpet out, it's a three. If you do something flashy in the trunk, you could get a ten. I mean, it could be a win or lose for you, just because your trunk is stock.

D&E is kind of interesting. D&E is kind of interesting because, you know, you get all the performance side of stuff, but this isn't performance-related, right? So, it kind of helps when you're looking at, like this is what I'll call more of an amateur-type thing. It balances things out a little bit. So, people that are really good at doing things to make their car look good or, you know, that kind of stuff, they can get 100 points out of that. Even though they're not the fastest guy in the road course or the fastest guy in the, you know, the speed stop or something like that. So, it's a bit more of a balancing based on the type of competitors that are at the series. But I understand where you're coming from, you know. We get a lot of that, I hate D&E, but it really is an interesting component that isn't in any other kind of race. Right.

And I do, I like the aspect. There's one of the reasons I like that event, because I'm not great in it. I mean, I drive a Mustang, so it's like the autocross, all that stuff is a big, my car's 4,300 pounds. It's not great.

Oh, you hitting that cone is one of my favorite videos.

The road course is what I'm there for. But it's for what I pay for the event. And I go and I get to stay at Road America for the weekend. I bring my kids, like we hang out, we ride the golf cart around. I mean, it's just a great time.

It's one of my favorite tracks. I love Road America.

Yeah, it's like a park.

Yes, absolutely. That's what I tell my kids. We're going to drive under that bridge and we're going to be there all weekend. We never have to leave. And they're like, really? I was like, absolutely. 100%.

Yeah, it's so funny though. I mean, everybody's all nervous about D&E because that's the unknown. You can go out there and kill it. You know your numbers. You don't know your numbers until it's just about to the end on D&E. And when I'm judging, I have a baseline for forged line wheels and brakes and tires and things like that. But I know if it's a really nice forged line wheel, because most of them are forged lines, then you'll get a little more. If it's not so nice and it's been on the car a long time and looks a little beat up and things like that, you're going to get a little less. But simple things like the trunk or if you take the radio out, put a nice delete in it. If you don't put a delete in it, you're going to subtract points. So there's just little things. You're going to run out to the next show.

Yeah, so they just released the dates or whatever. So yeah, I'm in a group chat, so we're all talking about. We're actually considering doing Indy too.

I was just going to say, you're going to Indy. Did you know that?

Yes, I did.

They're running on the big track, not the little track.

Yeah, I know. I heard that they are going to be at Indy.

What track is they're going to run?

We will be there.

They're running at the big Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Motor Speedway.

Oh, really?

On a road course there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, not the small track. They're running on the big track.

Okay, that's cool. That's super excited. Because it's like a five hour drive for me to Road America. What's another few more hours I can come down here?

Exactly.

So, yeah, I think I'm strongly considering it.

Yeah. We're excited about that. We actually got a meeting with those guys today to talk a little bit more about it. But yeah, they got some cool tracks in there. Road America is still in there, so.

Awesome. So will you be at then or you guys be around at either of those events?

We try and be at most of them. It just depends on the schedule. But we love them, so we go there when we can. So I would guess that most of the events, I probably won't be at the one in Louisiana. I love the tracks, it slips my mind. But we'll be at most of the other ones, yeah.

I definitely want to try to make the indie one though.

Oh no, we'll do the indie one.

That's close to us, right? So my back story, before when I was a little girl and everything, I actually played with cars instead of dolls. And my great uncle raced in the Indy 500. So the indie track is kind of special for me. His car is in the museum. And so any chance I get to be a part of that history and be a part of that, it's a lot of fun.

Absolutely. So my dad and my uncle, I had brought them to PRI first time this year. I think they're gonna go over there and check it out. I was like, you gotta go check it out. I don't know. I think that my kids are into this stuff, but all of our vacations are car related. I'll either be getting a car, so we'll be like, hey, you guys want to go to Alabama and we'll go and do a trip out of it. And actually I picked up a Bronco down there and we stopped at the Motor Speedway on the way home. And we did the whole kiss the bricks, did the tour, all that stuff. And yeah, it's super exciting.

Yeah, no, it's good.

Yeah, they actually brought me in to see his car for the first time. And they had tucked it away in a location that does not exist. And so they brought me in as a VIP early in the morning and took me in the elevator. And then afterwards, I got to go kiss the bricks and they toured me throughout the whole place while it was still closed.

Yeah, I've heard about the basement and I did ask about it and they said I could tour it. It was going to cost me some extra to go down there. And I was going to consider it, but again, I had the whole family with me. So I was like, I didn't want to make them, I didn't want to pay for all of them to go down there and or I didn't want to make them wait for two hours while I went down there and drilled over some cars.

Yeah, it was probably worth it. You probably should have done it.

Yeah. I planned on being back. I will definitely go check it out.

I got to ride on my great uncle's Legacy and go down there because of that. And they just invited me in and it was definitely a cool, cool experience.

It's a fun industry.

Yes.

It really is. And it can be a family deal as well. My boys are into it. They've got Corvettes. They're all into the whole thing.

I don't know if we... Again, I don't know if they naturally get into it or if they don't really have a choice just because I'm so tied into it that I just drag them along everywhere. I like to include my family in everything. So we go to these things and they seem to be enjoying it. And I guess time will tell as they get older and they want stuff. But right now they've all got cars picked out that they want. So we'll see how that goes. Yeah.

I think they figure that out. I mean, I never pushed my boys into it, even though they went to the races. And they were huge into sports and played basketball and soccer. When they went off to university, one of them went for business law and all that. They go, well, that's the end of the car thing. You know what I mean? That was it. Next thing I know, they both in the automotive world, they both have Corvettes. They're both super gear heads.

Yeah.

Not from my pushing, it just kind of evolved that way, right? I figured it was going to go in a different direction. And all came back full circle.

It must be in the blood a little bit somehow.

Yeah, I think so. Same for me. I mean, my son, his car seat went into the back seat of a 59 Cadillac. So that's how he rode around when he was an infant and he now works for Stellanus.

Okay.

Cool. Is he fixing everything up over there?

He is actually, no, he works in the media department.

Okay, sure.

He has a degree in media from CU Boulder and he does the directing.

He does the what?

He does directing for their media.

I will say that they're the, I grew up in Mopar, right? My dad's a partial owner of a Dodge dealership, right? So all the media and the ads over the last decade, for example, the 2018 Demon release, coolest release I've seen in my life. The 170 was cool, but you couldn't top that first one. But yeah, some of my favorite ads. So I'm not sure how involved he is with that, but hats off to at least the media team.

He's actually just gotten involved in the last year or so.

Okay, sure. His predecessor's hats off to that.

He's a little younger than being at... He was still, gosh, 2018. No, he wasn't old enough yet to do all that. Sure, sure.

I wonder if he's worked with Garrett, though. American Muscle HD.

Oh, you still haven't hit him up.

No, I know.

No, there's so many people at PRI. Okay, so why PRI? Why do you guys come to PRI?

It's the grassroots hardcore racing. I mean, this is where everybody that's in the racing world is, right? And even the international people. So many of the people that we interface with all year long, they're here. All right, so being able to talk to people, you know, all the USAC people are here, all the Trans Am people are here, all of the manufacturers that we work with are here. So this is like a giant networking for us. And if we want to have meetings, we have meetings here, right? So this is by far and away, in my opinion, in the automotive industry, the best show that there is. Yeah. Second to none.

I think it's all in the name. I mean, that's, it's all in the name. It's who we are.

I'm talking about the show itself, though.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's all in the name, the performance racing industry, and that's what we do.

No, we thought people liked, and not that there's anything wrong with SEMA, but people get this whole idea, like, that's the one to go to. And I'm like, if you're really into the performance stuff, this is more compact. It's a lot. Yeah. This is my favorite.

SEMA is a different model. They're not really on the performance side. This is the performance show, for sure.

SEMA is aftermarket, and this is racing.

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

It's very showy over there.

Yes, it is.

It's also very expensive.

Very expensive.

Yeah.

2,000 square foot booth that I just finished up.

SEMA's got its place. It just depends on what you're trying to do.

Right.

It's a bit more of a, if you're trying to launch a new platform of some sort on an international basis, there's some merit to doing things with SEMA, right? It's a different business model. But from the racing performance side of it, PRI is the place for sure.

For sure.

Yeah. What's the most complex thing, whether it's Katech or any of the other companies, what's the most complex thing that you guys do for your customers or clients? Any particular things come to mind?

I think the most important part, if I'm answering your question correctly, is service for the customers. That's why we have support people to go to the track. You can buy parts from anybody. You can get your car worked on by a lot of different people. There's a lot of good companies out there, but what we've always tried to do better than others is servicing. Like I told you, we have people that go to the racetrack and take care of all of our customers and all the racers. That goes a long way because when you're a driver, you want to be able to run your car and not have a problem. So servicing the customer, whether it's someone doing a build on their street car or somebody at the racetrack, really doing that. And to be honest with you, the reason it's a big challenge is social media and digital media has changed the world so much that it's very difficult to communicate correctly sometimes in that realm. There's a lot of miscommunication and there's a lot of people that can be vocal on those platforms that maybe shouldn't be. So that's a challenge. But servicing the customer, making sure that there's good communication, making sure that they're well taken care of in the world for us is probably one of the most important things. And I also think it's one of the biggest challenges.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there's so many people that can type behind a keyboard and say something that's in their head, but maybe they should do a little research first and find out what the true answers are. Or, you know, just think about things before they say it. You know, we're all human and we're.

I mean, we're we like interfacing with people, so it's fun for us to help people. They might have an idea, but, you know, not only just service after the fact, but helping them create the right, whatever it is they're looking for together, right? So that's it. It's just a lot of fun. Working with people is the fun part, but it could also be the biggest challenge as well.

Well, and you just have to listen. Sometimes people don't take the time to sit down and listen if they want to build something for their car, build a new motor, or just do something to their existing car. If you take the time to listen, not only look at dollar signs, but what are you going to do with the car? You know, what is your budget? That is important, but what are you going to do with the car? What is your skill level? You know, what are you able to drive a 1,200 horsepower car? Well, maybe we shouldn't build that for you, because I don't want you to end up in a wall, you know? I mean, it just depends on what it is, but I do believe that, like Mark said, you know, customer service and listening to what people are really looking for. And that goes for technology too. I mean, if you hear the same thing over and over again, that somebody wants a thing and they can't find it, well, let's build it. You know, if you hear the same thing over and over again, there's a demand.

Yeah, I'd say that, to your point about, you know, putting them into a 1200 horsepower car, you're going to get, you could almost ruin it for them by going too much right away, right? Because they're going to get in and be like, oh, this sucks. I don't want to do this. But whether they hone their skills with something with 600 horsepower, it can be, oh, I'm having a blast. And then you work your way up.

I've actually heard of people say, I'm afraid of my own car.

Oh, yeah.

And you hear it. And so why build it? It's one thing to go a little above their skill set. It's another thing to put in a death trap.

You know what breaks my heart? No, it's not the 2% female demographic. It's the fact that 80% of you guys are not subscribed and following the show. So go ahead, hit subscribe or follow. And of course, if you're on YouTube, hit that bell so you are notified when we drop a new episode. And let's get back to the show. So overall, you guys mostly just attend events now, or you guys aren't competing or doing anything crazy like that. I think that's just said earlier.

Not much anymore. I mean, again, I raced for years, but right now we're more on the business side of it, right? So working with the business, supporting the customers, that type of thing. So, you know, that, you know, you know, Lynn plays around with her car from time to time. I'm a big motorcycle guy. So, you know, we just don't have the time to do that kind of stuff anymore. You know, we gotta, you gotta focus your energy and, you know, where it's important at this point. So I love going to the racetrack and I love work with them. And, you know, we were talking about the USAC stuff. I mean, I raced sprint cars back in the day. So I love the whole sprint car thing, right? So working with the, going to the, going to a USAC event or work with the teams on that. I just love that kind of stuff. Cause I got a huge passion for it. But, you know, we're there, we're still enthusiasts, but as far as actually, you know, being behind the wheel, not really the time anymore, right? To get all that stuff in place.

Do you guys sponsor some teams or anything?

We do. Yep. We do some stuff in Optimo. You know, we do some things in some of the other series as well, where we have different levels of sponsorship. We're going to be doing a few more things in the coming year as well. Yep.

Okay.

Yep. So when it comes to like the IMSA and Trans Am stuff, are you guys working with crazy tolerances or rules or restrictions? Does that apply much to you or not?

Lots of rules.

Lots of rules?

Depending on which series you are. If you're in a prototype series where there's less regulations, then things are more open. A lot of the stuff that we do has guidelines, right? So there are rules and regulations. Same thing in the Trans Am series. We do most of our stuff for TA2, and they're somewhat of a spec motor, if you will, when we send them out their seals.

Okay.

So they can't be changed after the fact, but we build them to the spec required. You know, there's always some gray areas here and there, but for the most part, you know, there's some pretty strict rules and guidelines that we build the stuff to. And it's the same thing with the IMSA cars as well. We have some guidelines that you have to work with in, and you know.

Do they pretty much have to, in a series like that, do they have to buy from a supplier of some sort, or is there anybody building these in their garage and still going out and running series like that?

When you get into that level of stuff, there really isn't anybody building stuff in their garage.

Yeah.

You know, it's a little beyond most of that. You have to keep in mind, just, you know, for example, in the IMSA stuff, the motors are structural to the car.

Right.

Right. So, you know, you take the motor out of the car, the car's down in two pieces. Right. So these aren't, you know, get your cherry picker out and take the motor out.

Right, right. Change it around, right?

So, you know, all this stuff is, these are all very professional series, and these are professional teams and professional drivers. They're not really, you know, they might do some service on the car, but they're not building the cars themselves.

Yeah, I've seen that. We've seen that in some of the bigger stuff that, you know, there's, you order your stuff from here, and basically everybody gets their stuff from the same place, and then it gets to your race team, and then their engineers may tweak some things, whatever you can do to kind of think you're getting your advantage over one or another, but yeah.

Yeah, it all comes down then to, like you say, the, you know, the team engineers and making their own little tweaks in it. You know, car's set up for the driver, right? And when everything comes together, that's what your car's gonna win the race basically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's good, then it gets it right down to driver skill at that point, right?

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly. And it also showcases, you know, the guys that are really good with chassis setups and, you know, the ability to understand what's going on with the car, driver input and stuff like that. You know, there's a real skill set involved with that. It's not just the guy with the most horsepower, you know. There's a lot more goes into it than that kind of thing. So, yeah.

What are the odds in the next few years we see you being like a sub supplier for an F1 team or something with all this American stuff going on?

I don't know about that.

Yeah. You don't think we're gonna work your way up to that?

I don't know. That's a big step from where we are to, you know, getting you the Formula One side of stuff. I know it's a very, I love the whole Formula One world. I have a lot of people that I work with that do dabble in that world, so I know kind of what goes on there, but that's a big step from the type of stuff that we do. Yeah.

Oh yeah.

Hey, never say never.

Yeah.

I would love to do something in that world of things, but realistically, that would be a pretty big step. So we'll see what happens.

You never know, man. Like it's like sometimes you just need a supplier for something and it's like, oh, these guys have the capabilities. All right, let's give them a shot.

It would be fun. I would welcome it, but I don't know.

Sure, put it out in the universe.

We're quite in that position at this point. So we'll see what happens.

Sure. I have a question that kind of came into mind in the very beginning when you started talking about your specializing coatings and stuff, right? How much we talk, you said something about reducing drag. How big of a difference can just a coating on something make a difference like on an exterior of some to reduce drag? Is that?

You talk about internally, like in the motors?

I was thinking externally. Are we talking like something that could make the surface more slick to do less drag?

There are technologies out there that can do that, but that's, you know, our focus is more on drag with interface of parts. You know, parts wearing, bearing interactions, transmissions where you've got gear interfaces and things of that nature, or gears touching, you know, interplanetary gears touching gears and things of that nature. The coatings on the outside of the car, there are some of those technologies, but, you know, that's, that's...

Juices under the squeeze.

Yeah, we don't focus on that part of it. That's, some of that is a bit urban myth, if you will.

Right, right.

You know what I mean? You can, in the marine world, there's more of that than there is in the car world because of the friction from the water on the hulls of the boats. But, you know, on the outside of the car, air passing over them, not so much.

Okay, well, then how about internally? I mean, just by having something that's more slick on the inside, can we gain quite a bit from that?

Oh yeah, for sure. That's the area that we focus and that's why all these race teams are in. So there's a couple of things, right? So if you create a more durable part that doesn't require extensive lubricants to keep it healthy over whatever period of time it has to be, then you can run much thinner fluids, right? Which then frees up horsepower. You can run less fluid, because you don't need so much in there and the more fluid you take out, the less drag there is, because fluid creates a lot of drag of an engine, whether it's a transmission or a differential or an engine some, right? You've heard stories about people lowering in a wet sump motor especially, people lowering the quantity of oil in there to gain horsepower, right? That's a real thing, right? So oil whipping around and stuff creates that. So putting these coatings on creates a slicker finish for the oil just in general, so there's less friction there. But you also can run different types of lubricants that also enhance what's going on with the coatings. Okay. It's something that's been going on for a long time. It's just the technology is changing now, right? So products like DLC, diamond-like coatings that have been out there, it's a high carbon material, very slick, low coefficient of drag type thing that's been out there for a long time. It's been there, it's used in aeronautics, it's used in aviation world, it's used in race car stuff for a long time. But there's products now that are superseding that, that have other properties that are even better. And that's kind of where I'm working in that area now.

Okay.

So on that note then, so is that sort of, when you say coatings, are we talking like, for example, Mercedes, they're engine blocks and they basically, if you blow an engine, you can't really go and re-sleeve it because it's just so thin and they just did coatings instead of, you know, leaving a room for something.

Like a spray-in coating. Yeah, 350 has a similar deal.

That's a process of coating the aluminum so they don't have to sleeve it, right?

Okay.

Yeah, Nicosil and talking things like that, right? That's a different, all that stuff's been around for a while. Some of that is applicable only in the racing world. Some of that is applicable in the street world as well. Yeah, but it's all those technology, and they all started off, you know, either in the aviation side of things or in the racing side of it for cars.

Okay.

Because a lot of the stuff comes from the, you know, the aviation side of stuff as well.

Okay. Yep. So, and that was pretty much, at what point were you doing that in your career? That was, what, about 15 years ago? I got my time, I might be off from my research, but.

Well, more than 15 years ago.

Sure. So I'm going to miss, it's all right.

You know, I worked in Europe for a while for a couple of coding companies, and, you know, we did a lot of development work. And most of those polymers were used for automotive refinish coatings or protective coatings for the OEM. They weren't necessarily performance coatings for, you know, the high performance world of stuff, right? And I did a lot of work at the OEM level as far as, you know, creating different stuff. When the regulations changed, you know, a big, big portion of development I did is when, you know, regulations changed, EPA changed regulations for coatings that are used on cars. Everything had to be reformulated to lower VOC coatings. So that was a peak point when I worked in the industry, reformulating the base colors and toners and clear coats and primers, all the new regulations and things like that.

And you said that was for PPG?

So I did. So three companies I worked for doing that, ICI Paints, which was a European company, Imperial Chemical Industries, which was acquired by PPG.

Okay.

So that connection stayed the same. And that was more of my European connection and then some of the US. And then I worked for Axel and Nobel Coatings for about 10 years after that, working on different brands and different technologies for them. A lot of the waterborne paints and stuff like that. So.

Okay.

Yeah. But it all ties together because all of these polymers and these things, they all overlap with other things. You know what I mean? So when you start looking at all this stuff, the technology is similar in all the stuff that goes on.

So, you know, we live in the land of 3M. So they're, they, they dabble in that kind of thing. They got their hands in about everything.

So, yeah, done a lot of work with 3M over the years.

Okay.

Good company.

Yeah.

Good company. They own McGuire's. You know that, right?

Oh, do they really?

They do.

I don't know. It was a long time ago.

Ten years after I left, Barry sold. But yeah, it's been 10, 15 years. It's been quite a while. Cool. And they make Post-It notes. Don't forget about that.

Oh yeah. No, that's our big claim to flame there in Minnesota area.

Yeah. As we wind down here, is there anything else that you guys wanted to touch on?

No.

I mean, I appreciate the time. I mean, it was fun talking to you guys. It was fun just kind of having a little conversation back and forth with everything that's going on and share things with your listeners. And so that's why we have you come to Katech and see what we've got going on there. We want to actually do something cool, maybe watching a cool motor being run or doing something really unique that maybe you haven't done on the podcast before. I don't know, but you can create all kinds of cool stuff.

See all the American made stuff we do in house. Yeah.

Well, actually, before we touch on that real quick, the whole American made thing is a big subject right now, especially tariffs and whatever else. How difficult is it to make stuff in America?

Well, I'm keeping saying we make it all of ourself, right? So for us, the only difficulty is whatever the raw material sourcing is, right? And some of that stuff comes from different places. That's changed a lot. I would say there's not that much difficulty anymore. It's become much more feasible making stuff in the US than it has been previously. That's why you see a lot of companies starting to pull stuff back down. There'll always be certain stuff that just isn't going to be economically feasible for a long, long time. But the basic stuff, the things that we do and the raw materials that we use, there's really no reason you can't do it very affordably, very economically, and create a better product in my mind than sending it offshore someplace. So it's just really nice to do it here. You know, it's a proud moment when you can produce all this stuff right here, right in your own shop. And sure.

We take pride in it for sure.

Oh, absolutely.

Our new Katech Track Flow LS7 pump, as you know, the GM pump has been discontinued for the oil pump. That's all engineered, assembled, actually engineered and machined and assembled in house. And we proudly fly the American flag on right next to our logo on that.

That's awesome.

You get to support the people in your community too, right? So it's, you're not, it's not just you guys, you're, you're supporting hundreds of families.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the whole idea of that you can do it cheaper offshore. Yeah, maybe you can, maybe you can't, but it's been, it's been my experience that people are willing to pay that slight extra bit for the fact that the whole infrastructure is here. Right. And it's, it's our people that are being put to work.

And, you know, and we try to make it better. I mean, that pump is an example. I mean, it has 62% more scavenge than the OEM pump. So that's going to benefit our racers out there.

No, I talked to a guy who did some like small time injection molding in a small shop in Wisconsin somewhere. I was doing a satellite for him at a shop so he could get Internet. And one of his biggest customers was McDonald's is like the little change thing goes on the side of the cash register that spits the change out, you know, so they don't have to do any of that stuff. Well, he ended up losing that one to China and he said they'll get and they have to throw away like every 10 that they get in. But it was still cheaper for them to do that than it was to just buy from him.

I know.

And that's kind of sad that we just have to go through that waste.

I know.

That's a shame. Yeah.

Yeah. I've had some conversations with companies about making some parts because that's exactly what happens. They got it done very, very cheap offshore someplace.

Yeah.

And, you know, the failure rate is so high that they've just finally got sick of it. And so they're, you know, revisiting now. Maybe we do have to pay a little bit more, but, you know, what are the economics? We have to go in through all this nonsense with the failures type of thing. So, yeah.

That's great.

Want to rip the usual three?

Yeah. All right. So at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guest or guests to pick three cars. I need a track car, a daily driver, and a show car. You have an unlimited budget. You can build, swap, weld two cars together or whatever you want to do. What are you going to pick?

Go ahead. Gosh. I think, so a track car?

A track car could be any kind of track, whatever you...

Okay. So I'm going to do that one last because I'm not sure yet. I don't... So my dream car doesn't exist.

Sure.

Okay.

It would have to be a one-off.

That's okay.

Something really radical, something really crazy. If it's more of a show car, I really like boat tails. For some reason, I'd need a boat tail in that. I'm a huge fan of muscle cars, but as you know, earlier I said, my son's car seat was in the back of a 59 Cadillac, which had a 454 30 over in it. Can I mix all those cars into one and just drive it every day and have it just be a one-off?

Oh, I don't know.

I gotta check my rule book on that. It gotta be three.

It's gotta be three.

Yeah.

Okay, so the show car would be a one-off.

Sure.

It doesn't have a name. It doesn't have a builder, obviously. It'd be completely 100% custom built with a Katech motor. And the daily driver might be my Nova redone with a Katech motor. And then the race car. What would I pick for a race car? That's what I don't know. Actually, it might have to be a different Nova, like another 67. I really like that car, that body style and everything. Sure. With a bigger, better Katech motor in it.

Yeah.

All right.

Hey, that takes enough boxes.

Yeah.

OK. So if I was going to go for the race car, if I could do anything I want, it would be a Formula One car, for sure.

All right.

No question about it.

All right.

One opportunity to get have or do something with a Formula One car would have to be the ultimate on that on that side of things. As far as, you know, a streetcar type thing, I'm a muscle car guy. I love the old Corvettes. So it would definitely be a Corvette muscle car, probably a 67 Corvette tri-power car. I love those. I had one one time. Love them. Would love to have another one.

Right.

So that kind of was sort of a deal like that. And if I could have sort of a build a, have any car I wanted, I love the Kona Segs.

Kona Segs? Okay.

Love that.

Yeah.

So that would be, I guess that tick the boxes. That's kind of what my choices would be. Sure. Yeah.

No, absolutely. The track car can be, we've had people pick something like a Kona Seg too, because you could technically track it and drive it on the street, whatever you want to do. So yeah, no, that all.

I love the real high tech stuff. So for me, track car would be a Formula One car, even though it's way out there a bit.

Okay. I'm switching my race car to a Kona. Okay. All right. But not a new one. I want a 67 as well, because that's my favorite year of pretty much all cars. I mean, there weren't a lot of cars that year that were built that weren't cool. So, yeah, I'm switching, because since I'm driving a Nova for my daily driver, I might as well have something else out on the track.

Yeah. So what's your guy's car? I want the other side of it.

Oh, no, no. You have to go back and listen to those. Yeah. That's everybody's gift me. I'm not sure where mine's at nowadays. I've been looking at, okay, I'll answer it once. It's been about 30 episodes I've answered it. I really like Split Bumper Camaros. That has been my, I have one saved in my phone. It's black with white stripes. It hits all the right spots on that one. That'd probably be a show car. Muscle cars are show cars. Race car, Trek car. I don't know. I'm still kind of a twin turbo Viper. You know, Enth Moto is still home to me. So that and then Daily Driver. I think I still stick with a cute little GTI, man. I like being inconspicuous. I don't care. I limited money. I'll just throw some ridiculous motor in it, but I just like something to rely. Okay, I'm going to change it. I was going to say reliable. I don't know. We'll get some of the Cummins in it. I don't know. That's today's answer. Check back next week.

I'm going to answer the question 10 different ways as well.

Oh yeah. Mine's always, mine doesn't usually change. So for Daily, I need a truck. So I want a six, seven Shelby Baja Raptor. So their new six, seven Power Stroke truck that Shelby does. I'd want a 71 Torino Cobra Jet as a show car. And then 2006 Ford GT as a track car.

There you go.

Yeah.

Oh, that'd be a nice one on a striped Elite.

Yeah.

To be fair, he knew the questions ahead of time.

To be fair, I think that's been my answer almost the same every single time.

For the most part. On that note, where can everybody find you guys?

Sorry.

Where can everybody find you guys? Oh, websites or anything like that.

katechengines.com.

Perfect.

Yeah.

I'll leave that to the marketing side.

Yeah.

I'll be asking the right person over here.

Yeah, absolutely.

On that note, thank you very much for coming on the show, guys. This is awesome. Glad we got to meet in person finally.

Yep.

Dan, thanks for existing and we'll see you all next time.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.