83. Hellcat and Demon Wranglers/Gladiators, Restoring and building Broncos

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Minnoxide Podcast. I'm your host, Harris aka Minnoxide, man of many automotive aspirations. And I'm here with my traveling across the country to pick up just some weird stuff. Yeah, we'll call it that.

Yeah.

Dan, Mr. Gun and Garage. And today we're going beyond the meat. We're a little bit further from home today. We are here at JFB Off Road slash restoration. So I'm curious, actually, do you guys, is it two separate companies?

It's one company. We kind of started out more restoration heavy, but we've been doing a lot more off road stuff the last five or six years.

And so I first heard of you and your company back when you guys went on Crown Rally. I think a lot of people did. Yes. So today we have John as a Huber.

Yes.

Nailed it. So we were passing through town and some of our buddies, the Greycoes, who will probably come on this podcast at some point, suggested like reaching out to you since you're on this side of the city. And you do some wild stuff, man. You guys do Bronco restorations. You do these Hellcat demon-swapped Jeeps. Just a little different. So, I mean, just kind of tell us a little bit about your company, and we'll just kind of go from there and what you guys do.

Like I said, we kind of had our niche early on in the first-gen Broncos, the 66 to 77. Back in 2008, I was a general contractor, still am, but I worked every day that year. It was before I was married, before I had kids. And as you guys know, the housing market went to hell. And I remember my accountant saying, is there anything else you like to do? Because you could have stayed home and done better than you did this year financially. I'm like, well, I like cars. I like building cars. I can do one in my garage every two or three years. And I've always had a thing for those first-gen Broncos, and it was before they were a thing. And I bought a few of them and got a shop space and got some friends that were also into the cars and said, hey, we're going to restore these. And everybody said, you're nuts. You're going to lose everything. But we did find a niche and it's kind of exploded from there until about five or six years ago when Gladiator came out and the JL Wrangler came out. And we said, hey, let's build some Jeeps too. And we decided if we're going to do it, let's do everything you can do to one of these new Jeeps. And we got teamed up with our partners up at America's Most Wanted, 4x4 in the Detroit area. And we're a dealer and a vendor for them. They got us into the Hemi Swap scene and it's taken off from there.

And I see you're hooked up with Black Mountain too.

Yeah, that's Dennis Collins, right? Yeah, from Gas Monkey fame. So once we started doing the Jeeps, they were looking for a shop in this area and they reached out to us, had us come down and showed us around and we decided it would be a good partnership for us. So we're also the only Black Mountain dealer in the area. We had our grand opening here with the Jeep stuff and Dennis and his daughter and Big Chris came up. They're used to sitting in a dirty shop. We had a brewery next door at the time, so we had a nice little party over there. Yeah, it was a good time.

I met him at an auction once. I met Richard, too, but he was like a handshake and whatever. But Dennis, my God. You couldn't find a nicer human being.

He's the best guy. Just down to earth. Always makes time for you. We run into him. I'll go a year without seeing him. I just run into him at Barrett Jackson. He'll stop and talk to you. He remembers wife, kids, just checking in. Just a good dude.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's awesome. Those guys that remember everything. They're few and far between nowadays. But remember, especially when you're like, oh yeah, how's the wife and kids? Yeah, that's awesome. So then, I guess, when did that... So you said six years ago was that transition? So I used to have a Gladiator. And it was a cute little thing. I had the Rubicon tires on there. Nothing too crazy. I got rid of those silly street tires they were putting on them. What goes into a build here? I'm sure you have tons of different clientele that want everything from a basic sort of package to some of the crazy stuff we've seen. I think you mentioned you're doing some Demon Swaps, for example.

Right.

So I guess what's the kind of range of builds that you do for people?

So we do anything from just suspension upgrade, lift, wheels, tires, all the way up to complete suspension, axle swap, powertrain swap, accessories. We've built a $260,000 Jeep Wrangler before. That's crazy. Taking it from the showroom and just pulling everything you can off of it and just disguise the limit with them. I remember when we were first trying to get our foot in the door with Crown Rally, our local vinyl company had an affiliation with them, and they were trying to give us the recommendation, take a chance on these guys. They're unorthodox, but I think they'd be an asset. And we didn't want to tell anybody what we were building, half because we thought they were going to tell us no if we did tell them what we were building. But Tom Busen made his way down here, expecting to see a slam Jeep, I guess, with Slicks on it or something. And we had a Gladiator on 40s with one-ton axles and a Hellcat in it. And he said, yeah, you guys are in. You guys are going to fit right in.

Yeah, because Tom lives down here in Chicago.

Yeah, he's in the Orland Park area, not far.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now, Kenny and Gary told us that they saw you guys doing things with that Gladiator that some of the cars were doing. Did you guys have some, obviously, some major suspension mods and things to it, too?

Or yeah, we did everything you could do to it. Fully adjustable suspension, the reservoir shocks that are adjustable. We, you know, we can make them articulate and rock crawl or we can just tighten everything down. And, you know, I've been on Mclaren's a** through the tail of the dragon before, and they just don't know how we stay with them. But we can. You know, it's it's a good time. And a lot of people don't expect much from it. But at that first lunch stop of the rally, they're like, you guys aren't screwing around, are you? Yeah, we're not.

That first lunch stop on every Crown rally is the best thing ever. Because then you kind of figure out, like, who's who, right? Especially if it's your first time. Because I went on Crown 8. I was just a photographer. But I was in a little bit of car hopping. Best experience ever. But yeah, that first lunch stop, you just see everybody freaking out like, dude, did you see? You know, just reminiscing.

Everybody has the pre-party. You kind of eyeball everybody's gear up and have an idea of what you expect from them. But yeah, nobody knows what to expect from a Jeep on 40s until you get into the twisties.

Well, yeah, it's like the first thing you think is like, oh, great. I'm going to be stuck behind this idiot doing 20 under the whole time. And then it's like, oh, he's keeping up like every cruise. Like I remember I did a cruise of some supercars with my Gladiator and they're like, Harris, you're kicking up rocks like, sorry. Yeah, which I'm sure you were doing plenty of.

Right. We like to stay behind. You don't stay in the lead pack, but in the back of the lead pack. And it's a little different, you know, the acceleration, the throttle response on these big Jeeps with the big tires. Like I got to think you're going and I got to mash it like two seconds before you do. Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to stay in front of the guy behind me. And if you don't go, I'm probably going to be in your back seat. So it's a little spirited, isn't the word for it. It's a little intense when we're rallying these things, but it's a real good time.

You have to think about it a little bit more. Like when I was rallying with these guys last year in the GTI, you know, these guys like had, you know, GT 500s, one of them was souped up to, you know, a 1014 wheel. So every time he'd downshift once, I have to downshift twice. And they're like, man, how's that GTI in my rear view mirror this whole time? Like they lose me in the straights. But yeah, no, that thing is crazy. What do you guys do to, I guess, beef things up? Because I'm sure things were breaking along the way early on, probably.

They weren't, you know, we were we were shocked. So the very first one we did, you know, we're always under the gun here. It's it's like overhauling. You know, we got a deadline and my guys, they'll stay here. They'll sleep in their trucks. Whatever we got to do to get done. So we had actually flown out to Denver for the first crown that we did before the truck was done. And my lead tech, Bob Smith, he got it finished and had six miles on it, put it on a trailer, took it out to Denver, unloaded in front of the hotel. And we hit the button the next morning and never looked back. But he followed us all the way to Bonneville because he wanted to see it as a car guy. And also because he had the trailer with us and the tools with us just in case. But it just went flawlessly.

Well, this guy, he learned on his rally. He needs to bring tools. You've swapped however many things on.

I've done hub assemblies, supercharger belts, all kinds of stuff. I had a rear hub go out one time. I do that in a parking garage. That was just my travel tool bag, which is never as good as your toolbox you got sitting at home. I had to go out and buy a hub nut and all that kind of socket to get the hub nut off and everything. But yeah, you got to keep moving, man.

These things are bulletproof. We've been lucky on these rallies. We did blow a blower on one of them, but we just cut the belt off and we still had 550 horsepower, so it wasn't the end of the day.

Was it an aftermarket blower?

It was a stock blower, but we had it tuned by a company that I was a little on the fence with, and it turns out they didn't hold up their end of the bargain. We started doing them in house since then.

So I'm curious then. So some of these are probably turned up power wise as well.

Yes.

Well, actually, no, I'm curious. So how do you... I guess because these are all all-wheel drive as well, right?

Yeah, there are two or four.

Two or four?

Yeah.

Is there anything that goes into that? Any difficulties?

Not really. The Rubicon transfer case that comes stock in the Rubicon model will work with everything up to and including the Hellafen motor. It will hold 1,200 horsepower. So we change everything but the transfer case in most of our builds. We use the Dana 80 axles front and rear, the Tom Woods driveshafts. We do a lot of Teraflex suspensions. They actually are the only company that makes coil springs for us. They call them Hemi-Tune coils for the extra weight from the drivetrain. So you still have your travel. It sits right and they just handle phenomenally. I mean, they built them knowing that people are going to probably track these things. So we always steer people towards the Teraflex brand.

Yeah, I mean, this thing was huge. I was looking out here. What kind of is this Gladiator out here?

That is just a stock drivetrain. It's actually a customer vehicle. We did some work on it for him. He wanted to do the rest at home. He actually put the lift kit on it himself in a friend's shop and then wrecked it on the way home that night. So it had about two miles on it when we got it back. And we see that a lot. A lot of people want a little direction, some help getting the parts and want to take on the project themselves. And nine out of ten times they end up back here because I mean it just a lot goes into it to make these Jeeps go down the road straight.

You go in DIY so much. Shake it to the pros. We have a number of shops that are coming on the podcast here soon and they call themselves the last stop shop. You know, you'll never have to go elsewhere. Do you do a lot of fixer upper stuff too, like outside of the DIY side?

Yeah, we do. We flip here and there when the opportunity presents itself. Yeah, it's just something different for the guys. You know, you can only work on, you know, 20 or 30 Jeeps in a row before you want to see something different come through. And it's fun, you know, it's a challenge, but it's rewarding.

So it seems like you kind of have like these crazy big projects come through. So for example, when the Hellcats came out, that was probably like the next level up. You're probably like, you incrementally level up. So I guess what were some of the things you did along the way? Like now you're doing these Godzilla motors. I'm sure that was a big step up.

Right. So like when the Coyote Swaps became available for the first gen Broncos, that was it. You had to do a Coyote Swap. And we've done our share of them. But, you know, we were just looking for the, you know, the next trend, you know, in that genre. And, you know, we decided that the next few that we build, we're going to go with the Godzilla motors and see what we can get out of them. I don't think anybody's doing them yet.

So that's wicked.

Yeah, we're excited about it.

Yeah, that's that's cool. I like they went back to the old school push rod, single cam. Yeah, I think those are going to be pretty.

You can throw a lot at those motors.

Yeah.

You're going to get a lot out of them.

I just bought an RV and I wanted a diesel, but what they don't give those things away at all. So I ended up with a V10 over the 73 just because I didn't want to go into that new year. I was kind of looking for a pre-COVID built RV because they get a little wonky after that. But still solid that motors been around forever or whatever. But I was I was trying to get a Godzilla as bad as I could.

But we have a guy I actually just did a photo shoot with a guy last year or not last year last week. He's got one of the first told I think might be the first totaled Raptor are in the country. Okay, I don't know. You may have seen the photos on social media. Yeah, just crazy. But I think the motor might be good in there. And it's like those things go for a pretty penny too.

Yeah, they do.

And we were talking about this before we started to so you said everything you get here is through a crate motor.

Yeah, everything that we do on the on the swap side, whether it be a Bronco power plant plant or with the Hemi Jeeps, everything comes right from Chrysler or Ford in the crate, engines, trans is everything. And through America's Most Wanted, we've got an open ended deal through Chrysler for them to keep making Hemi's for us now that, you know, they're taking them out of production in their passenger vehicles, but we'll still have access to them for I think at least the next 10 years.

What have you seen with these new hurricane motors? Is there anything?

Not really. We haven't messed with any of them yet. You know, we're always looking for the next thing. We even considered doing like a 4GT motor in one of these Broncos twin turbo in it. We still may, but we had the opportunity to try the Godzilla drivetrain out. I think we're going to do that on the next couple of lease and see how that goes. But instead of following the trends, we like to, you know, you get your purists. They want a Ford motor in their Bronco. So, you know, what can we give them that they haven't seen already is kind of our approach to it.

You're doing your own tuning in house here, you said, or we do about half of it in house.

My my tech Bob Smith, he's really handy. He works with HP tuners a lot on these Hemi swaps, just working out some some bugs and getting a little more performance out of them. But the Godzilla project, we've got some other guys we're probably going to bring in on that for the first couple.

OK, that's exciting.

Yeah.

So then OK, so I see a lot of these people that you work with. So who was one of the early ones that you were working with early on, I suppose?

Like I said, my main tech Bob, he's been here since day one. Our old shop back in Joliet, we started building these Broncos, kind of came up with the name JFB just because, like I said, when I first started saying we're going to build Broncos, they all thought it was not going to be lucrative. And that's where the JFB came from. You know, I would just keep buying these things up and they're like, Oh, here comes John with another F and Broncos.

I was thinking just f****** bonkers or something.

Yeah, we tell everybody it's Jeeps and Ford Broncos. But yeah, cats out of the bag. It's John's f****** Broncos is what JFB stands for.

Yeah, I mean, they were those things weren't worth hardly anything there for a long while. And now, I mean, I never thought they would be six figure cars, much less $200,000 trucks at the same time. That's crazy. And they're really there's nothing to them. What does it take to pull a tub off of a frame?

Yeah, and it's I've taken one apart myself with a half inch 916 double sided wrench and a big crescent wrench in probably three hours. Well, it's down to the bare frame.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's not much to them.

So I guess what's been your, I guess, craziest, actually, no better question. What have you done to those helipant motors yet or no?

Yeah, we've done a couple of the helipant jeep swaps. And the nice thing about those hemi motors, they all go in the same way. There's a couple changes if you're doing one that's naturally aspirated versus supercharged, but it's just like battery box spacers you got to put in to clear the coil packs. But when we're doing a hemi swap in a jeep, the whole body comes off, you unbolt the entire drivetrain. We cut the stock motor mounts off and wall bars on, but after that, it's all plug and play and bolt together.

Why do you keep trying to steer this back to Mopar?

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Yeah.

Well, it's like you, it's crazy because you do both sides of the aisle, right? Because some people are all Mopar, all Ford, and you're just like, I'll do both.

And we're all just in the Death Wobble Club, so it's cool, you know?

Yes, we are. That's one thing we kind of pride ourselves in is we get a lot of, like I said, the guys that would come for parts and put their own lift on and all these G, anything lifted is notorious for the Death Wobble, but we kind of pride ourselves in solving those problems for people.

I've had it so bad on my F250 before, it shook everything out of my door panels of my truck. I think I ended up on the floorboard and I went, holy s***.

Yeah, we've gotten them in here where I don't know how they made it here. Yeah. Just shaking your fillings out.

So I never really had issues with mine. I guess I didn't have anything crazy done to mine, but how do you solve Death Wobble?

I mean, it's all steering geometry. Basically a lot of guys lift these things without changing other components that you need to maintain that balance. Okay. Yeah, you know, it's sway bar links, track bar brackets, adjustable steering linkages and adjustable track bars. You can tune all of that out of one of these vehicles that wasn't done right.

And they can keep up in McLaren's A Tale of the Dragon.

Yes. Yeah. And I remember the last time, the last Crown we did on South, we were right behind a McLaren on Tale of the Dragon, and he wasn't happy about it when we got to lunch. And I think I had four people in the vehicle with me that time. And we get to lunch and he's like, oh, yeah, you kept up. But it was probably like a washing machine in there. And the one girl was like, you know, I was drinking tea out of a sauce, you know, a cup, and I didn't spill a drop. He just was not happy. He was not accepting the fact that we were able to stay on him.

But I thought he was way more comfortable in the McLaren, like, oh, at least they're suffering back there.

Right. Yeah, it's a pretty smooth ride.

That's impressive. And I mean, do they all handle like that, or is that like once you get into the higher echelon bill?

Oh, they all do. If you let me pick the brand of lift kit that you want, you know, usually when people don't know what they want, I usually start with tire size. What do you want? And then I'll reverse engineer you a suspension that's going to give you the look and the stance you want. It's going to handle like I want. And if they give me that kind of carte blanche, then I can make sure it will go down the road for you.

What's a blank check customer look like? Have you had one of those yet?

Yeah, we have. You know, when we got in the Crown, you know, we thought, hey, we're going to build these things, you know, Midwest exotic car guys. Those are our guys. You know, you can't drive that for you. You can't put snow tires on your Ferrari. You got to drive something in the winter. And it has worked out pretty good, you know, not only as a client base, but I remember the second day of my first Crown rally, I was sitting there at lunch thinking, holy s***, I'm going to be friends with most of these guys the rest of my life. It was just that kind of an impact that I wasn't expecting, but felt. But we have had a few Crown rally customers that just said, build me something crazy and let me know what I owe you. And we have.

Yeah, it's funny, I have friends that I'll have for a lifetime, too. What a rally will do, it brings people, even though you're spending half your time by yourself in your car, it really brings together some guys like minded people.

Yeah, and I think Justin and Tom and Dan, they did a real good job of getting the right people on board with this stuff and just the vetting that they do. But it is, like you said, like minded people. They work really hard, a lot of them are self made. And when they get a chance to have some fun, they want to do it with like minded people in those settings.

Dude, the people that go on Crown Rally, like at least everyone that I've met, I mean, amazing. Like, for example, the year that I went, everybody was happy to take me in their car. Like, at one of the gas stations, I was riding with the CTSV, I think it was Marcus, and I forgot his passenger's name. But I was like, hey, is it cool if I go ride with these guys, you know, pointing to the SVJ and the Urus? I'm like, worst case scenarios, they say no, right? That's the best thing I've told everybody. It's like, worst thing is they could just say no. So I ended up riding in the SVJ for four hours through the Smokies, and it's like, you know, the nicest people ever. Everybody just wants you.

Everybody has been great.

Yeah, which it's not the stigma that you kind of grow up with. It's like, oh, these, you know, super car guys or whatever. And like you said, you immediately knew they're going to be some of your best friends. Yeah. This guy, you know, I met him under my rally, you know, when I was running back in the day and now I'm broke because of him. But yeah, I guess it worked out.

Right.

So I guess so there's some things that you're working on over here. I look really like what was that? You said that was a Grand Cherokee in there or?

Yeah, I believe it's a 78 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Grand Cherokee. Actually, a good crown buddy of ours, Brandon Tang, that's his uncle's vehicle. He bought it new back in 78. And I think he shipped it over to like the car and rallied it and then brought it back. And it's bounced around through probably half a dozen shops over the last 10 or 15 years until I got to know Brandon. He recommended us to his uncle and we got it in. It had been painted, but they didn't do a nice job on it. So we took the whole truck apart, painted it a six liter LS swap in it. Modern suspension gauges, everything, you know, we're kind of in the homestretch of finally giving that truck back to him. And we're excited. He, like I said, he bought it new. I mean, he's had a vision for this thing and it's nice to see, you know, through all the problems he's had with it, that he's finally going to get it back and it's going to be the way he wants it.

So you said it went to the Dakar?

Yeah, he shipped it overseas and rallied it over there.

That's awesome. So what was the build like before then for that?

So someone, like I said, it had been in at least four or five shops and it's been in the restoration process for at least 10 or 15 years. I think it was sitting for four years in the shop that we got it from. So everything gets taken apart, milk created, lost, left behind. And that's kind of where we're just kind of re-engineering this thing, you know, from what we don't have. I've bought a couple of donor vehicles just for the stuff that you can't find on eBay or anywhere else. And he wants it like a brand new 78 Jeep Cherokee would be. So that's what we're trying to deliver for him.

What's a build like that turnaround for you guys here? Because I hear stories like all the time, years or one to four years are sitting at a shop. If somebody brings you something like that, well, how long does it take you guys to turn?

So I think we told him we were going to need it about a year. And I think we're about a little over a year right now. But that's because it already had an LS in it. And everything that they had done, you know, just going and looking at it in the corner of a shop is different than getting it here and getting it on the left and getting it apart. And we ended up having to redo almost everything that had been done to it. So we're probably looking at a year and a half total on that build.

OK, which I mean, it's reasonable considering you have to redo the whole thing, right? You know, like, for example, we had Michael Morgan on. I don't know if you met.

Yeah, I know, Mike.

Yeah, with the Gramps build. Yeah. And it's like that thing was like a nightmare, you know, sitting for two years and it was just, you know, a husk at the end. So you hear all these constant nightmare stories, especially when I posted that video or the highlights, the comments were like, oh, yeah, I did this, you know, sitting for four years.

Right.

A year and a half isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things, especially if this happens all the time. Like one of my friends is getting his car paint and body done, right?

Right.

And they get under there and they're like, dude, there's a lot more to this that needs to be done.

Yeah.

You know, staring at a corner is one thing, but you got it on the lift here. Different story.

Yeah. That's why when it comes to the Broncos, you know, we used to have guys that buy them off eBay, never see them, have them shipped to us thinking, I just spent 30 for this and other 30 should get me there. And we get it and we're back down to a bare frame starting from scratch. So that's when I started buying up every donor I could find just to save them the hassle and the surprises of getting into a build like that. So if you call tomorrow and want a brand new Bronco and you don't have one, I've got donors, we just go down our list of what you want and I can give you a time frame within usually a month or six weeks of when this thing's going to be ready for you. Turnkey.

We were just talking with a gentleman down in Indy. Does similar stuff to you, restorations and stuff. Does like movie cars and whatever. So we might be having him on the podcast here in the next month or two, but he was talking about like getting some of these like auction cars and they're rough sometimes. Have you done any of those?

No, we don't. We avoid that. Like I said, some of our customers have, you know, they'll find one at auction, they'll spend 80 or 100,000 on it, and they just wanted a different color, and we'll get it back here and it turns into a full build. So, you know, we have like this dream car program through the restoration side where you just let me know, you know, what you want and what you envision your finished product being, and I'll go find you the donor and I'll source all the parts and we'll build it for you. That way the timeline isn't affected by the surprises that we get once we get your vehicle here. And it's worked out pretty good.

Well, it's kind of like when you take your own parts to a shop and it ends up being a totally different thing.

Yeah.

But you're bringing a whole entire car.

Right.

I mean, the problems just multiply.

Yeah.

So then you probably have a pretty clear cut method for sourcing cars then.

Yeah, we do.

You don't have to give it away, of course.

I've got people all over the place. Yeah, just finders feet here or there, reach the right wheels, and I can usually find what I need to find.

So it used to be, it was great because you get good deals on cars before the internet, right? Because somebody wouldn't know what they had. But they were hard to find, right? You had to literally go out and drive around or through summer, pick up a paper. And then Craigslist came out. Then it was like, all right, cool. Then other people could research what they had and all that stuff. And then there was actually another website called Craig Look that would look the entirety of Craigslist, because they were pretty regional. And then they got rid of that. And now everything's kind of shifted to Facebook Marketplace, I've seen. It's been an ever-evolving thing.

Yeah, I remember I started buying projects off of eBay. And then that cat got out of the bag. And then it would be Craigslist. And then it got to the point where too many people that had the savvy in this enough to put their vehicle on, Craigslist probably knew what they had by now. And then it went to Marketplace and some of those more obscure. But it's almost gotten back to like feet on the ground, guys all over the place that find you those barn finds or those random deals.

We just drove back from Texas and I'm like, I should stop it. I mean, so many OBS Fords sitting in fields and those things have gotten crazy. I feel like since COVID probably did the same thing. So another side question here, do you guys do side by sides? Because I feel like since COVID, the whole four by four market has also just exploded. Have you guys kind of seen an uptick on that?

We have. We've done some side by sides for existing customers. It's not something that we advertise. I've got them. My kids ride them. We do our own, but we like to keep the business scalable. And with the present format we have, we got our hands full with the Jeeps and the Broncos and the restoration projects. But it's definitely a growing part of our business is the side by side stuff.

What about competition wise? Have you ever built any competition vehicles or anything like that?

Nothing more than the Crown stuff, which is semi-competitive.

I only think just because of the car thing. It'd be kind of cool to have some crazy rally sort of building.

Yeah, we're not opposed to it, but just the opportunity hasn't presented itself.

Well, that's the thing. You need one of those blank check customers or somebody with a crazy idea that's willing to pay you for it. Because you guys got the skills. You can do everything in house here. Is there anything that you kind of outsource, whether it's fab work or anything like that?

Right now, we do all of our own fab, our own paint and body work, and obviously our own mechanical work. We do have a couple of interior shops that we work closely with that do some real nice work for us. But we like to keep as much in house as we can.

Well, interior is one of those few and far betweens lately. It's kind of like one of those lost arts.

It's like a dying breed. We actually had our guy here yesterday, who's an older gentleman, that closed down his shop last year and is kind of just doing stuff for us out of his basement now. And he didn't realize how far it was from the midway area. And he got down here and was like, man, you don't have any other shops down here? I'm like, we don't. There's nobody around anymore.

So is there anything that you guys, as you scale? Because like, how long have you been in business now?

So I started in 2009. And we've been here for five years now. So 2019. As far as the future goes, we like, like I said, to stay scalable. We've got some plans. We purchased four acres on the other side of the highway last year with plans to open a much larger shop with a bar restaurant attached to it, you know, just for hosting cars and coffees and poker runs and a lot of events. You know, we're going to have a setup where you can drop your jeep off as long as we've been in touch ahead of time. We'll have your vinyl ready, your lift, wheels, tires, everything. You go have a burger and a beer, listen to the band, and we'll pull your trucker on when it's done. We're planning on getting into more of the street performance, exotic upgrades. I've got some techs that are ready to come on board once we get moved over and have the space for that. So we're trying to stay as scalable as possible and just building and increasing what we can offer.

What do you mean by exotic?

Just Ferraris, Mamos, Porsches, all that stuff.

So you're going to start doing in-house Storado builds, kind of, maybe?

We're not ruling anything out.

I just saw one of those. One of my friends has one of the first ones in Minnesota. I think it is the first one in Minnesota. And he just got some really sweet aftermarket wheels. It's a b***** car. It gets different, right?

It is. You don't see them.

Off-road Ferrari would be kind of cool.

Like you were asking a minute ago about the blank check guys and doing some comp stuff, Larry Chachko, who passed away a couple years ago, he owned Blackhorse.

Was it Blackstar? Blackstar.

And he had approached me about doing a build like a Baja 911 build. And we were in the process of figuring out what we were going to do and how to do it when he had his accident. And about a year later, I was talking to a customer that we shared. You know, he's done his exotic stuff. I've done his off-road stuff. I said, you know, just out of curiosity, did you approach Larry about building a Baja 911? He's like, Yeah, that was me. He's like, I didn't care what it cost. I wanted it. And yeah, it never came to fruition. But that would have been something I would have been pretty excited about.

That would have been cool.

Yeah.

How many out-of-state customers do you have?

I would say a majority of our customers are out of state. Yeah.

So like when you like more like Midwest still or?

We ship them all over Canada, California, New York, Minnesota.

Yeah.

We got several customers up that way.

Yeah. What did you say? You just sent up a Demon one to Minnesota?

One of our Crown buddies, Brent Wavra, he sold his Ferrari because he wanted something cooler. And we built him a Wrangler with a Demon, one ton axles, 40-inch tires, every accessory you can put on it, blacked it out. Really cool truck. He actually flew down a couple weeks ago and drove it home. He's really excited about it. Yeah.

And then was that like an entire interior rehaul too?

Yeah, it was.

Okay.

Yeah, we had an interior built for him. I mean, like I said, everything, we stripped that truck down to nothing. He knew it, but he couldn't believe it till he got here, you know, because he's a hands-on guy. You know, he's mechanical himself, and he's crawling around under it. He's like, man, there's no Jeep parts left on this thing. I was like, no, that's what you wanted.

I hope to see that thing in person. That sounds cool.

Yeah, you'll hear it and see it in person, I'm sure. Yeah.

Do you have a lot of like, so obviously you do these crate motors. Do you try to keep them stock powered? Is there a lot of them that are like tuned up?

We usually end up tuning most of them. Just between the tire size, gear ratios, you get the whole thing together. And then, you know, you can just tell if you need to put a little more into it or sometimes take a little more out of it, adjust shift points. So few of them end up not touched as far as the tuning goes.

And then do you have any like, that have crossed that four digit mark at all? I think horsepower wise.

Even the Hellcats, you can get up over a thousand. And, you know, the Hellifens started a thousand. So, yeah, we've had some crazy. We did a couple, a two door Wrangler with a Hellifens in it, Sleeper, just on stock axles. That's what he wanted. And yeah, that truck, you could feel the front end coming off the ground. Yeah, I was just waiting for it to flip over.

Especially the two, you said two door?

Yeah, two door. Brand new Wrangler with the Hellifent, Sleeper.

That's probably the craziest one I've heard so far.

Yeah, it was insane.

Because those two doors are just like a cube.

Yeah, they are. And just destroying the tires on that thing, just trying to test drive it around. It was a lot of fun.

So what do you guys do with stock drivetrains? Do you sell them off again for the customer?

I used to have a shelf full of them because they weren't worth anything when they first came out just because nobody had blown them up yet. But we're at that point in time. I wondered when it would hit, and it's hit. I'm out right now. Between the 2-liter turbo motors and the 3.6s that they put in the Gladiator and the Wrangler, I can't get them in and get them out fast enough.

Wrangler needed something because they were, I feel like they got really lazy, right? Because they were the only thing since the Gen 1 Bronco stopped, and they went from that Gen 1 to Gen 2 Bronco, which was one hell of a freaking switch. Those were, you know, we went to eat a small Bronco with one of those Broncos. But you couldn't have anything else if you took the doors off, had the top open, all that stuff. And then now this new Gen Bronco comes out, and then they start doing, like you said, they released their Hemi Wranglers and stuff like that. I feel like they just kind of got lazy, but I feel like they were underpowered, they weren't as great as they could have been.

Well, they came out with the JK in 2007, and that ran until the JL in 2018 and a half, but they had no competition. They owned that market, and you could tell that they kind of saw that and saw they didn't have to do anything to it until everybody else saw the potential there and the other manufacturers started building accordingly. Like you mentioned the Hemi Wrangler, that came out the day before Ford finally came out with the new Bronco, just to kind of steal a little bit of their thunder. But I think it's good for everybody now that there's a little competition in that market because we're seeing not as many new Bronco customers, but we're seeing quite a few, as opposed to the majority of customers that were Jeep guys up until lately.

It's a cool looking rig, too. I like those Broncos. When they came out...

I love them.

I was nervous. I come from a Mopar family. I'm just like, uh-oh. Because it's a good looking... I know they're having some issues with some of their tops and delays and whatever. Most of that's gone now, I'm assuming. But it's a good looking rig.

It is. We've got a Wildtrak. That's my wife's daily. We put our touches on it. They all come with that gray hard top, so we sand those down, paint a body color, lift 37s, power steps, a little bit of vinyl and ship them. We've probably done... Because through our relationship with our four dealers in town here, we were able to get our hands on quite a few of them pretty early, and we couldn't flip them fast enough. But like you said, now the production, the supply chain stuff's kind of caught up with the demand, and they're available, so we're just getting more customer builds that see our stuff and want the same thing done to theirs.

Has anybody put a Coyote in one yet?

No, there's a company down in Texas that knows that we do the Hemi Swaps and the Jeeps, and they are still working on developing a kit for the new Broncos. They've recruited us to invest or become a dealer, installer, and I'm still waiting for something I can go down there and drive. So as soon as they have that, we'll go down and check it out, and if it seems like it's going to be viable, then we'll definitely get into that market as well. Sweet.

So who tears into development here, then? Is that like you get in there and you visualize everything, or do you have like a team here that's like, all right, here's the next platform, like, you know, again, Coyote, for example?

Yeah, like myself and my main tech in there, Bob, we kind of sit down over beer and just say, OK, this is what we have done. This is what everybody else is doing. What can we do that hasn't been done yet by us or by somebody else? And then I usually come up with the ideas, and he figures out how to make it all work. I don't know how he does it sometimes, but he does it.

Well, it's come a far away from you just doing it yourself. How many employees did you say you had here?

We've got six guys here full time right now.

And does everybody kind of do everything? Because I know you have the paint booth over here. Do you have a dedicated guy for that, for example?

So we've got three guys that mainly just do fabrication and paint and body. And then the other three guys that wrench most of the time. Bob is probably one of the best wrenches and one of the best paint body guys I've ever seen. So it's nice when we get a little work heavy on one side of the shop, he can help out and just keep things moving.

So do you guys do a lot of bread and butter stuff too?

Yeah, we do a lot of smaller lift kit jobs, two, three day jobs, just keep the lights on, just keep money coming in, in between the big builds.

Have you done a six by six yet?

We haven't. I'm not a big fan of them. I've driven quite a few and they're just not practical. I couldn't rally them. I couldn't off road them. I can look at them, you know, that just doesn't really excite me that much.

I just did a photo shoot with one, I want to say about a month ago. It's obnoxiously big.

Yeah.

And then I even heard some of those middle wheels often don't work anyway, like they're disconnected.

Yeah, about half of them I've seen are true six by sixes. The other ones are four by fours that are just dragging an extra axle around behind them.

And the craftsmanship isn't quite there on most of them, from what I've heard.

The ones that I've seen, I haven't been impressed with. It just seems like they came out and it was a niche, and guys just wanted to get them out as fast as they could, as opposed to as good as they could.

And they're not cheap either.

No, they're not.

I think a lot of them are asking for high 100s, low 200s price-wise.

Yeah, the ones I've seen. And most of them are powered by that stock 2.6 power plant. Yeah, you had an extra axle, and they usually lift them, and put all these bigger tires on them, and just the weight of the vehicle, and they don't do anything with the drivetrain.

Yeah, like the one that I shot, I think it's a, what is it, a three-liter diesel, I think, from garbage, eco diesel.

Yeah.

So I had that still. And this thing weighs probably 12,000 pounds.

Yeah, I'm not a fan.

Yeah, do you have a lot of diesel stuff come through here?

What was that?

Do you have a lot of diesel stuff come through here?

We get our share. Yeah, just the diesel Jeeps. We've got lift kits that are diesel specific. We just did one of those last week, a return customer.

What makes a diesel specific?

I think there's some front suspension components and just shock mount positions that are different on the diesels than they are on the three-sixes or the two-liters. Like I said, with the Teraflex stuff, I know they have specific part numbers for the diesel Jeep stuff as opposed to the gas.

You get trucks like my F-250 out there and stuff like that too. Yeah, we do.

We're actually, what year is yours?

2016.

Yeah, I think we've got a guy with a 2012 that is looking to do the straight axle swap and one tons all the way around it. We get our share of those in here as well.

A lot of you guys know Ratified Motorsport for their RS3, TTRS, 1000 horsepower hairdresser car builds, but they are so much more than that. From basic maintenance on an R35 GTR to cute little Volkswagen GTIs like mine, they're able to do a little bit of everything. Whether it's your basic maintenance or an intake in a tune or even a full-blown build, be sure to go to ratifiedmotorsport.com to get yourself booked today, and I hope to see you guys at the shop. What's something that's just kind of off the wall that you've worked on in recent years? Like, just different?

Yeah, we've done some oddball stuff in here. I know we painted a tractor for a guy in town for a breast cancer awareness parade he was doing. So it went down to the frame, painted everything pink. And, you know, he said, I can bomb can it myself. I want this to look like, you know, it was professionally done. So a lot of pink. Yeah, a lot of parts, a lot of pink for a couple weeks there.

Do people just come to you for just paint sometimes?

Yeah, we do quite a few just paint jobs. Yeah.

Rust repairs, stuff like that, too. Rockers.

Yeah, we do our shares, sheet metal work. You know, we try to shy away from it. Like on our Broncos, we build all our own bodies from scratch. DynaCorn reproduces every panel that Ford made. They bought their tooling and reproduce those parts. We've got a jig. We've actually built tubs for them before. And, you know, we like to use new metal when we can, as opposed to trying to do rust repair. You never know what you're getting into until you get into it. Yeah.

Do you do anything on the dealer side? You said you source some of these Broncos. Do you just sell them as is sometimes?

Yeah. We've got a real good relationship with the local Ford dealer in town here. They also own a Jeep dealership in Bourbon A, which is five minutes away. They've got 11 total Ford and Mopar stores like in the Midwest, like Northern Illinois, Western Indiana area. So we've built restoration vehicles for them on spec. We built the older Broncos for them. They're kind of an outside of the box thinking company, which a lot of these new car companies aren't. We're actually in the process of replacing their Black Widow and Rocky Ridge builds. Just to have a few uplifted vehicles, you know, Jeeps, Rams, F-150s, F-250s on each of their lots, which is a nice relationship to have. When you're trying to source something too, like I said, we got a lot of the new Broncos early on through them. Anything we need jeep wise, they usually get it for us right away.

Well, like my dad's dealership, they do a lot of that too. They have a couple of partner shops, and they'll just send their jeeps off and get super customized. My mom has one of those pink ones, the Tuscadero pink ones, and she had some custom stuff done too. Nothing crazy, but again, it's one of those things like, all right, here's our whole catalog. And then do you do a lot of like, if you guys do anything for those dealerships, is it typically like warrantied stuff as well?

Right, yeah, that's the big thing is a lot of the new car dealers don't want to get into the upfitting because of the warranty implications, but we've got a real good warranty program that is honored through the dealerships. Anything that we didn't touch, they cover. Anything we did touch, we cover.

That's awesome. I remember seeing an article, it might have been Motor Trend or something, where there was like a dealership doing like whipples on the new Ford trucks or whatever it was, like straight, you know, and just covered it.

Is that that, are they out of Ohio maybe?

Lebanon Ford is a big one. I think there's a couple of them that are like your performance dealers, and you can get what they call the Sleeper F-150.

They're expensive though. They put a nice sticker on.

In the grand scheme of things though, I mean, look what a Raptor R is. I mean, what a supercharged 4x4 truck we can...

Yeah, I know you guys know Gary and Kenny. I don't know if they told you, but they just ordered the Sleeper trucks, so they're going to put their own package on them. I'm excited to see what those guys do with those things.

I love those things, man. $40,000, $45,000, whatever it comes out to. It's on my top five list of things I want right now.

Yeah.

I mean, especially if you throw like a Gen 6 Whipple on it. Get out of here.

Yeah, forget it. The Lebanon Ford, that's the one that I was familiar with. They do a lot of cool stuff over there. And we're trying to, like I said, our guys here, they've got that mentality. We haven't gotten it to that point yet with the aftermarket stuff, but I mean, people are coming from all over the country to Lebanon Ford because they're just a small town Ford dealership that does really cool stuff. And we're trying to get that kind of relationship and business plan going with our local guys too.

What about TRXs? Have you done much of those?

Yeah, we've had a couple. We really didn't do a whole lot with them. They're fun trucks too though. I mean, myself, I prefer the same power plant in a Jeep that weighs a lot less and handles a little more nimble. But yeah, they're cool trucks for sure.

Do you have any like referral partners that you kind of like? I mean, I guess is there anybody you want to shout out? Like that you work with on the tuning side or whatever?

Yeah.

Putting you on the spot, I know.

For some reason, I'm drawing a blank right now. We had a local tuner in town here that was purchased. I think it's Nelson. Not Nelson. I'm thinking Nick Nelson. Yeah, for whatever reason, I'm drawing a blank.

I've got to get Nick on at some point. He's good stuff.

Yeah, he's a good dude. Yeah, they're over in Watsika. I can't believe I'm not thinking of their name.

That's fine. Just throw it in the Facebook comments at some point.

Watsika, Minnesota?

What's that? No, Watsika, Indiana. Or Illinois, I'm sorry. They're only probably 40 minutes from here. Nichols. Nichols Painting Fab.

Okay.

Yeah, so they were a small shop. Now they are a huge shop. Really good down to earth guys. We send them work. They send us work. Even when we bring something over there that's built and done just for a tune, they'll throw it all over their social medias.

That's awesome.

Yeah, we kind of like cross promote each other.

That cross promotion is huge. Especially up in Minnesota, a lot of shops have doubled or tripled in the last couple years. And it's awesome to see them all collaborating with each other. It's just huge. A little shout out goes a long way.

Yeah, it does. And just that mindset, you know, we're not competition. There's enough work, enough of the specialized stuff for everybody. You know, just help each other out. If you're too busy, send it to them. If you know they can do it, send it to them. You know, it's a real good relationship to have.

So speaking of collaboration, then, I'm sure you guys aren't the only people doing like Hellcat swaps in the country. Is there some of these other, I guess, who else do you collaborate with? I'm sure there's like a forum for you guys.

Yeah, so America's Most Wanted, I mentioned them earlier. They're out of Holly, Michigan, which is near Detroit. They kind of came up and did all the R&D and came up with the swap kit. And then, you know, they took us on as a dealer. And I think they're up to maybe 30 stores nationwide, which I don't really consider a competition. We're the only one in the Midwest. And it's nice when, like you mentioned earlier, you know, out of state customers. If I got a guy in California, it's nice to know there's a shop within 100 miles of where he lives in case there is an issue. You know, we've had guys in the Colorado area just with the altitude, you know, the atmospheric changes in the tune, you know, that need to be a little tweaked once they get them out there. And we've got a shop there too. So it just, I don't see it as competition. It's just kind of a network.

Well, it kind of helps everybody, right? Like, you know, for example, when some of these drag strips are shutting down, you know, these last couple of years, like, you know, it kind of hurts the sport as a whole, right? Same thing applies. It's like the more shops you have to go service, you know, yesterday competition, but not really. It kind of helps the overall brand.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're selling a more viable product if, you know, you're 2,000 miles from me, but you know there's somebody there that's going to honor your warranty and, you know, take care of you locally.

Well, it's like up in Minnesota, we have a problem because we don't have a McLaren dealer, you know, so you have to ship it down to Chicago. And that's why a lot of people don't like, like, I know I have a number of friends that want McLarens. And granted, they have a tech that comes up from up here, from down here in Chicago, I think, like, you know, a handful of times a year to fix all the McLarens. But it's like if we had a dealership up there, you know, like for example, we just had a Ferrari dealership open up there and I think there was like 300 orders.

No kidding.

And I think about half of them were local that first year for like deliveries, just crazy. I was going to ask earlier, what about like drivetrain loss, right? Because you have those big tires, you have all this because like for example, the TRX's are 702 horsepower as opposed to 707.

Yeah.

Do you have, I guess, is there a lot that gets lost to those big tires and everything?

We haven't dynoed too many of them, but you know, we kind of, like I said, with the tuning, we just get them together, drive them and then if they need a little more, we throw a little more at them. We don't want anybody to ever feel like they made this kind of investment and they're still underpowered. If we can't roast all four of them, no matter how big they are, we're not going to ship it.

Sweet.

So you say roast. Did you do a few burnouts on Crown?

Yeah, I've been known to do a burnout here or there. Around the right company, peer pressure goes a long way.

You need friends like that.

Well, you need to sell some Jeeps, right?

Absolutely.

Nothing sells anything better than burnouts.

That's right.

What's been your most popular build? What have people just been like, oh my God, that's crazy?

I think the last rally we did, we had that Gecko Green Gladiator with the Demon Motor, and it was tuned up on 40s. That one, I think, AMW had just developed some Demon headlights, so the center portion of the headlight would glow red if you wanted it to. And just pulling up behind somebody with those red headlights on, and you can't hear anything over that exhaust and that blower when you're ripping by them. A lot of people remember that truck. It was probably one of our most memorable builds.

What was the gray one?

The first gray one we did had a Hellcat in it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Do you do a lot of aftermarket blowers? You usually do stock on those?

We usually leave them stock, and they're just so tunable. Yeah, we usually just leave the stock blowers on there.

Okay. That makes sense. And we are coming up here on an hour, so obviously I want to be respectful of your time. It's the middle of the week here, so we just kind of dropped it on you, like, hey, we're in town.

Yeah, no, we're glad to have you guys.

Well, you know, it's just, I think this is just like a perfect opportunity to come out here. But Dan, do you want to pop the usual three? Or unless you got a rabbit hole or two you want to go down?

No, I think I'm... Have you worked on every generation of Bronco? You guys get 78, 79 ones and stuff?

Yeah, we actually... I'll show it to you guys when we're done here, but we've got a 78 in the back for a good customer of ours. He was out of Bear Jackson a couple years ago, and I think it might have been Brett Michaels had a K5 Blazer that they roadstered out, and he's a Ford guy. And he's like, man, he's like, if this was a Ford, he's like, it would be my dream truck. So find me a 78 Ford Bronco and build me a roadster. And that is the last generation we hadn't touched. So yeah, we've covered them all.

Oh, sweet.

Before you pop your thing, actually, so... And I kind of alluded to this earlier, but what's your dream build right now? If you could have unlimited budget, what would you do right now for a customer or yourself?

I got to tell you right now, just with the timing of the development of what we've got in house, I'm really excited about this Godzilla Bronco project. I think it's going to fit in there way better than the Coyote does, and it's going to perform better, and it's just cool to say that you got a Godzilla in your Bronco.

Yeah, it's Japanese, right? Right, yeah. Well, sweet. Pop the usual three.

All right. Well, after every episode, we'd like to ask our guests to pick three cars, a track car, a daily driver, and a show car. You have an unlimited budget. Obviously, in your realm, swaps, builds, all that is all okay. What are you picking?

Man, that's a tough one. I don't have those, I don't think, typical car guy aspirations when it comes to certain stuff. Right now, I'm really into late model American muscle stuff. It seems to be what I've been purchasing lately. My daily, I've got a Ford Raptor that I drive every day, and I love it. We tuned it up, put it on 37s. I probably wouldn't trade that. As far as a track car goes, we talked about this earlier. I've got a 2015 Roush RS1, and I think I would like to find another one of those that's not as low mileage as mine and just gut the interior and put everything you can put on that tiny motor and just take it to the track and see what I can keep up with. As far as the fantasy car, I think it would probably be a Gen 4 Viper. I had a GTS back in the day, and I catch myself looking at those more than I should probably. That would probably be it for me.

So like a Gen 4 ACR?

Yes. Yeah, just something ridiculous. Like I said, the late model American muscle, I think that is about as far as you could take that with what's available in the market.

Like where your head's at?

Yeah, that's where. Probably not what most guys would aspire to.

You're not that far off, especially from a Ford slash Dodge guy. You're right on par with what I would expect.

There's some other weird stuff I'm looking for. I'd like to find a Low Mile Stealth RTE.

Oh my God.

A 79.

I feel like you and I could be best friends.

Yeah, a 79 Mustang Pace car.

Oh, s***, I got one at my house.

There you go.

It's the most original one I've ever seen, but it is a basket case. I could put my hand through. I could change the brakes from inside the engine bay.

Yeah, with those Recaro seats.

Yep, it's got those in it.

We might be related. We're going to have to investigate.

Might have to ask my mom if she was ever hanging out down here in Illinois.

Yeah, I'm from West Virginia originally. And the last thing that I can think of that I've been looking for is an 87 Monte Carlo Aero Coupe. Nice, stock, clean one. Just put it away. I think it's more stuff than when I was a kid that I wanted.

Where can people find you?

jfboffroad.com Facebook, Instagram. I think we've got a YouTube and a TikTok also. I'm not as up on that stuff as I need to be. Maybe we'll talk about that afterwards.

For sure. And then, Dan, as for you?

You can find us at Gunna Garage with two N's. We're on this trip, picking up a fun little project. I probably should have taken some video and stuff on our whole journey. If only I was with some kind of social media expert the whole entire time. That could have helped me with that. But it's fine. I'll get some videos and give it to the wife and see if she can make me up some cool stuff, and we'll get it posted.

The social media expert isn't free. What was I going to say? So we have a number of events coming up. We're going to be up at Power Cruise. That's going to be awesome. We're going to be camping up there. We're going to be doing some podcasts up there. Have you heard of Power Cruise, by the way?

I have.

Yeah, you got to come up. You got to bring that Jeep up there to hurt some feelings.

Yeah. Yeah, I think Adam, does he go to that?

Adam Smith?

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think he was telling me about it a year or two ago.

Yeah, that's his thing, dude, partying and racing cars.

Yeah, they bring the camper out there and just have a good time. Travis, I think Travis was with him.

I think so. Yeah, I think he was up there once or twice. Yeah. Yeah. And then we also have the performance driving school, the day after power cruise. So if anybody wants to camp with us and just learn a thing or two, North Star Speed Summit, that's coming up. That's going to be awesome. We're going to be camping up there too. I'll release more details on that. But I think that covers it. You guys are, you found me, Minnoxide at everything. Thank you so much, John. This is awesome. I'm glad this worked out.

Yeah, I'm glad we were able to get you guys together. This was great.

This is cool. We'll go check out some projects in the back of the shop. And as for all the listeners, we'll see you all next time. Dan, thanks for existing. See you next time.