94. Rotaries, Miatas, RX7 vs RX8 w/ Antonio Della Polla AKA 8ighty 7even

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, the show where we go beyond the meat. I'm your host, Harris, AKA Minnoxide, and I do this alongside my co-host, Dan, also known as Gunna Garage. Today, we are having somebody who's a little bit more familiar with the RX7 rotary platforms, RX8 especially, and quite a bit familiar with the Miata platforms. A little bit different in some of the variety we've seen on the show, but as you know, we like to get a little bit of everyone. So I think it's about time that we get a little bit more familiar with these. Let's get right to it. But the main things you work on nowadays are rotaries and Miata.

Mostly Miata. Yeah, that's my focus right now. I've been in that platform for a long time. That's basically what I do. My background is so broad. I could do other stuff, but I just like the Miata crowd. It's very diverse. What can't you do with the Miata?

That's kind of what we would get into, but let's hit the thing and we'll start talking about it.

I'm going to superimpose an intro later. That's a later problem. It's just going so chill. That's one of the things I like about other podcasts. They just kind of get into it. They kind of skip the intro. But regardless, with Miata, you never know what you're going to get. You can get stancy boys or full blown race cars.

Yeah, that's basically how it goes. And I like that. I like helping out everybody that is willing to just do something with their car. So like, like, sure, stancy boys, sure, full blown exhausts, sure, or whatever, or turbo, you know, they have so many different ideas for their cars and what the purpose of the car build is. So I like that. And like I said, it's very broad. So it kind of it actually keeps it pretty busy. And there's other shops, too, that focuses on that locally, which there's planning jobs for everyone, man. You know what I mean?

So what do they run in the MX5 for like a motor?

So from 90 to 93 was a 164 cylinder. And then after that, from 94 to 97, they ran a one eight. That one's called the BP05, which is a OK, flowing head. One six is like not so good. And then 99 to 2000, they did what's called a BP4W, which is a reenhanced cylinder head with better intake port angle. And then...

What years was that again?

99 to 2000, very short.

Gotcha.

Lived. And they had nine and a half to one compression. Instead of the nine previously. And then VVT-i motor, which is 2001 to 2005, I believe. Unless you have a Mazda speed, because they went back to BP4W. But that one's a VVT-i motor with a little bit higher compression. So that one's a 10 to one.

So.

Okay.

So which one's the one to have out of all those?

99 to 2000.

99 to 2000? Yeah.

Yeah. You don't want the VVT. A lot of people think that that will help you in the long run. But it's actually slows you down because now you can't fit bigger cams.

Just get this adjust a little bit higher, by the way. You're just leaning up. It might be going limp on you.

Yeah.

If you see where that little thing right there. Yeah, there you go. It's a nice watch, by the way. I like the color.

Oh, yeah. I'm a watch guy. Sorry. I have a nice watch once in a while.

Okay.

This is my clothes. I don't really get to wear nice stuff because most of the time I'm at the shop. Yeah.

That's what everybody tells me. Whenever I do merch or anything, people are like, just do black.

Yeah.

I did the whiteish, off-white hoodie and everybody's like, why? And I'm like, I want it.

I mean, it looks cool when you're not working on cars.

Right. Exactly. So if you had to guess how many, because you have diverse clients, so you have the Stancey Boy and the Race Car, and just go fast guys. What would you say the distribution is of that? Is it more show car kind of guys that just want a little kick?

Well, lately it's been more of the fast guys. I feel like people have caught up finally in Minnesota to like, hey, Miata is actually pretty quick and it can be fast. All the internet myths are finally going away.

What are the internet myths?

250 horsepower guys, man. Like apparently that's the limit. You know, all the, a lot of, that came from Autocross and RealCourseGuys saying that on the stock motor. And I agree up to a certain point for the fact that you are beating the car more than, you know, 10 seconds or 13 seconds in a quarter mile or something. So yeah, it does fatigue the motor faster, but there's ways around it. So and it all comes down to the tuner. So yeah, like on, for example, on a 1.6, I do have a customer making 280 horsepower and 263 foot pounds, like a 19 pound to boost. And then just recently he asked me to turn it up. So it went to 22 pounds and it's been sitting like that since the spring. So earlier this summer, which that's probably making like 300 wheel. And that's why I tell people, I'm like, if you have a 1.8, you can make 300 wheel or 1.6 even.

What's he doing with the car? Is he autocrossing anything, just driving around on the street?

And yeah, he's just doing polls. So yeah, he's a street guy. OK, so it's a fun car.

Is there anybody doing? Is there anybody doing draggy hits with with Miata's?

So nobody is. And that's why I'm getting one. Yeah, because I want to get a list. I think it'll be fun just for the local guys. And I mean, it can go nationwide or whatever. But I think that will. OK, so right now there's a limit for Miata's, right? Everybody can make good power, but nobody can put it down. And the reason is because there isn't that many great options for transmissions out there. So there is. But then you're end up, you know, putting up used BMW transmission that's been beat, you know. So you can do that or you can do you can do a TKX, which is what I've done for one of my customers. But it's not easy, I'll tell you that. And it's a lot of money. So I'm trying to figure out something right now where we can get a good drivetrain for our customers. And that way, you know, I mean, we can make up to whatever you want, four digits if you want out of a one eight.

What it is, I guess it depends on the year, right? But so I guess you said your favorite is like the 99 2000, right? But like what, what years are you mostly working on? Is like the more recent ones, like within the last like five, 10 years or just all over the place?

It's all over the place. Yeah, I mean, I've worked from like a brand new one with like a supercharger kit on it and everything and wheels and suspension to like just a stock, 100% stock car, which I tend not to take those customers because I'm not really their type of shop because I'll be like, hey, don't you want to like do some suspension work or something? Like all your bushings are shot. But, you know, they're those guys are more of a cruiser. You know, they just want to like relax and take a car on the weekend up north or something, which is totally fine. The Miata, like I said, I mean, I can do anything.

It is. It used to be kind of like a make fun of a Miata guy, kind of right. But as I'm spending more time on the track and I'm seeing more of these cars, all this stuff. So we just had, well, you said you listen to Jay's episode. He literally picked that as his track car. And I've been kind of getting the itch. I've been thinking about it, because if you really want to go out there and have fun and just beat the s*** out of something, that seems like the perfect candidate.

Yeah, and you can.

Yeah.

Like there's, like when I tell the customers, first when they come to me, they always ask me, I want to do, I want to make like 300 horse. I'm like, yeah, but what's your purpose? You know what I mean?

Right.

So like that's kind of how we gauge, like what route we take on the bill. But most of the time, guys just want to go on the road course, like DCTC, it's a great track for Miata, guys, because it's very short and technical, and there's elevation changes, there's different types of concrete or asphalt out there. So it really tests all your skill, and you can get pretty good. I mean, there's some guys out there are really fast with just a stock engine Miata, like nothing done to it, and just tires and suspension and brakes, and they're really fast, like really fast.

Really?

Yeah, yeah. So like I said, the Miata, you get into Miata to be a better driver if you want to challenge yourself.

Well, it's a momentum car, right? Like you got to be able to keep the momentum. Like I always talk about this, like when we do, again, you do it in real life, I do more iRacing at the moment, because I don't want to break s***. It's a lot cheaper. But it's like, you can make up for the time lost if you are in a faster car, right? Like especially if you're racing like head to head or whatever, but a Miata, it's like you make, you blip that throttle, like not throttle, the brake 10% too much, you pay for it big time. You can't get that speed back. So when somebody approaches you to build something, right? What's the to-do list to, let's say autocross, right? Or I guess, are you setting up autocross and road course fairly similar or is there big differences?

Oh, there's big differences on them. It depends if you're going to force the induction or all motor. But yeah, that's basically where we start. But most of the time, I try and get the maintenance down. Like oil pressure is a big issue. These motors do not make oil pressure where it should be at for the track. And a lot of people put the stock oil weight, which is controversial. I use a 2050 VR1 oil in it to bring that oil. Oops, it's the oil pressure up where it should be, because real dumb is 10 PSI per 1,000 RPMs. So if you're at 7,000 and the oil pressure is only at 55, 60, which is usually where they're at, you're possibly can damage the engine. Plus, there could be oil starvation on turns and stuff like that. So usually I address that first if we can. And while we're in there, you know, we go, hey, do you want to upgrade? And summer internals like head studs, it will be a good start. And, you know, oil pump gears, they're known for shattering during race events.

So this Mustang guy can talk about that. Yeah.

Well, how long is the Ford Mazda partnership or is that still going on? There was like a thing. So I, like, I've been looking at Ford probes even lately. Like how much of that motor is Mazda, that means 100% Mazda, weren't they, underneath? Or I don't know if you know much about the probes.

I actually just started messing with those motors. Really? I have an MX3 with a KLG4, which is a 626 motor.

OK.

And a solid lifter. But yeah, it's basically a 2.5 KL motor. OK. But I don't know that much history about it. I know that it was a collab with Ford.

Yeah. Everybody had their thing. Like Dodge had their thing with Mitsubishi. It was like they saw the Japan market coming in and they were like, we better do something.

Yeah.

Partner up here.

So they did a great job. I think I think that partnership became part of a race program with a front wheel drive, some sort of Ford out in like Australia and, you know, out there that they were doing some serious racing. So that motor end up being in that race car. And then I think that's how the development came about.

OK.

So but there's so many variants of that motor and it sounds great. It's a great motor, by the way, if you know what you're doing.

Yeah.

Otherwise, it's just, you know, it's very, very fragile motors. That's what I said about these cars. They're very fragile. You just have to know what you're doing to get it right. And once you get it right there, they'll go forever.

That seems to be a reoccurring theme, by the way, with anything like Mazda related. Well, it's a great motor if you do it right. And that's something that we kind of hear all the time. Yep. Because everybody's like, oh, as long as you keep up on your maintenance or if you do this, this, this and this, is that pretty accurate then? Yeah.

Yes. It's not a German engineer car.

They're not.

They're tolerances are not very well.

Those get worked on plenty, too. So, you know, it's is there any one absolutely perfect automaker out there? Probably not.

No.

But some people get lucky. Yeah.

So well, you've had you worked on a variety of things over the years to them.

Right. Yeah.

Like if you had to list off a handful of things, what would it be like things that you were kind of known for at any given time?

Well, Vipers, for sure. Gallardo's worked on a few of those twin turbo ones. I've worked on. I mean, I've worked for German cars too. I really like Mercedes. That's like my go to brand if I had a daily. Okay, you know, foreshadowing. Yeah, I mean, I even got lucky enough to work on a 4GT build and a Salina 7 build, which, you know, is that the one that was around here a handful of years ago?

Yeah, yeah, that's not in Minnesota anymore, is it? I don't know. Some of these cars get hidden, like I, like, there's a number of warehouses within a several hundred mile range, where it's just like, you wouldn't believe it's in Minnesota.

Oh, yeah. Minnesota actually has a lot of car people. They're just very, very secluded on their stuff. They're just don't want to, you know, share it sometimes when it comes to collections.

Car guys like that, right? I have a friend of mine who's got a lot of cool s***, but he doesn't want anybody to know that he's got a lot of stuff. And then there's the guys that want everybody to know they got all this cool s***. So it's, yeah, it's kind of weird. I don't really understand that other side. Like, why would you want to have all this stuff in secret just for you to stare at, I guess?

Well, it's a mix, right? Like, especially with social media, like so many of up and coming guys are like, oh yeah, like just flashy, cloudy, all that sort of stuff. Whereas some like old money, for example, if somebody's got, you know, a nine digit bank account, they don't want people knowing that. So it really depends, but it's a lifestyle. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, you got your circle on them. That's who you actually show it to.

So how did you eventually settled? Because now you're in your own shop, right? You said before we started, you were kind of going from shop to shop, just, you know, kind of finding your place, right? What made you decide to go out on your own finally? Or has it always been side work?

No, no, it's, I mean, I had my hobby shop for like four years already. And I kept moving around and I was like, well, not really finding happiness like in certain shops. So, and I'm a guy that works really well on my own, like when it comes to cars, but very well in teams when we'll have to do something in teams. But most of the time, if I have to work on a car, like I just really not have anybody like bother me and just kind of focus on that. So I think that's kind of where my idea come from. I was like, I think it's time. You get a good feeling about it. And I just used to do it. So actually, I should add this to it. Before I started my shop, I actually took a trip to Italy and visited Ferrari, Lamborghini and Pagani, which Pagani was like, holy girl for me. And just visiting that shop was like, all right, I should be doing something for my own. Like it was very inspiring. So.

Visiting Pagani?

Yes. Yeah. So that and Ferrari too. Ferrari took a big, like very, you know, Modena, very Italian. And like they telling me was like, oh yeah, I gotta show my art, you know, or like my capabilities of doing great work. But I think that that was a major effect to be like, yeah, just, just wing it, man.

What was it about the Pagani, like experience that was just awesome? Is it like the attention to detail? That's probably the first thing that comes to mind.

Yeah. I mean, it's basically art on wheels, like everybody says, you know. Horacio Pagani was born in Argentina and was, you know, Italian descent, which I'm from Venezuela, but Italian descent. So for me to just kind of see eye to eye on things and being like, you have to take pride in like where you come from. You know what I mean?

Right.

So like, I was like, oh, that's pretty inspiring. Just the whole story and how he carried the company. You know, he wasn't like, oh, we're going to make like a bunch of these right away. He started pretty small, which now they actually do make quite a bit of them, which there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you stay true to your brand. So I think that was I think that's how I can relate.

Well, for me, it's like right now, I'm having a ton of pride with like Rimmack, right? Because, you know, the guy, it's weird because like, depends on who's your mother and your dad, blah, blah, blah. But the guy's Bosnian, right? And I'm Bosnian. And it's like, all right, so we just had the fastest car in the world just a minute ago, which, by the way, we invented the Predator drone. I need you to know that just watch what you say. Perfect. But it's like there's something to be said about that a little bit of pride. But it's kind of cool that the whole story from Pagani leaving Lamborghini and just.

Yeah, that too. Yeah. I mean, Lamborghini is a great company. But, you know, sometimes you get you can only do so much when you're not in control of your own destiny. So it's better just get a hold of that and just do yourself.

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Well, that's spawned off of all kinds of companies have spawned off that way from not seeing eye to eye. I mean, even Lamborghini itself was like, he was just trying to give notes to Ferrari and Ferrari told him to f*** off. So he was like, fine. It happens a lot. Yeah, right? Yeah. So it's like, it must be a thing over there. They just all have a lot of ego, I guess, going on over there.

I mean, the car industry, yeah.

Yeah. Well, the same thing, right?

Yeah.

It's like we see this all the time, especially even locally. You see guys that just, they work for a big name shop and eventually they just go out on their own. I think it depends. Some guys like the stability, some guys are like, well, I like to do my own thing. That's where you ended up where you're at. It's like, well, I feel ready now.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

So obviously, we talked a little bit about the Miata, and we'll probably come back to that just because everything about that whole segment is just awesome. But and then we talked a little bit about Rotaries before we started. So are those kind of like the two main things you're working on then mostly, or what else are people coming to you for?

Basically, if they don't have a shop, like a home shop, they end up in my shop. Like if they're like, oh, they're not willing to work on this, we work on them, be like, have you tried this place? And they'll be like, yeah, I did. And I'll be like, all right, fine, I'll take you in. It's a one-man shop. So like right now, I'm booked up till October, which is a good thing.

It's a good problem to have.

Yeah. But also, I'm trying to do little projects for people. I do a lot of tuning for these Miatas. So they'll be like, of course, people will be like, last May, they'll be like, hey, this Friday, can you tune my car? I'm like, bro, I have five people that just messaged me the same thing.

I don't know what it is about this industry, because I hang out in these shops, I know these people, I'm 42 years old, I should know better, and I still do that s***. I'm like, you knew you needed to do this for months now, and now you're reaching out to people, being like, hey, I have an event next weekend, is there any way you can help me out here?

And most of the time I do, because I don't have a schedule, I'm basically working every day. You kind of have to until you have people working for you or you have a team.

Is that the plan, by the way, to eventually have people working for you?

Man, I'm so picky. Like it was just-

It's tough.

That's my problem too.

Actually, I started thinking about this stuff before I even opened the shop, because I'm like, I will have to know somebody for like at least five years. You know, these are the five year markets where you know somebody pretty well. So I'm like, who would it be? So I have a couple people, but you know, mainly it's the money. I would like to pay them very well. That way, you know, they're taking care of, they can have their vacation time, they can grow in their own ways in life without having them to do what I did and be like, I'm just going to open up my own shop, you know, like to have somebody you have to pay them well. So that's kind of like my drawback. I'm like, I need a lot more money.

Yeah, there's like a like a gray area there in a business where you're like, okay, I need to take this next step. But obviously I got to cut myself way back in order to take care of this person and get it to the next level. It's my business has been in that area for the last couple of years. It's like, I don't know what to do, but I'm a very much micro manage kind of person. So it's hard for me to give up any kind of, you know, trust to somebody to not screw something up.

And, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I do that a lot of people are not aware of. You know, like I said, Miata guys are like, oh, 250 and here I am making like 300 plus on stock engines.

Which is crazy by the way for that car, because it weighs next to nothing. What do they weigh? I guess depends on again, generation.

2000 to 24, 2500 pounds.

Which is, that would put bus lengths on my car. Like, you know, my GTI, which weighs, you know, low 3000, you know, making 340 to the wheels. A Miata would put a bus length on me. Like, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, we've taken cars off the dyno and line up to like a Vette or like a supercharged G37. Then we just like, just gap. And it's on stock motor.

Well, if you think power to weight, like the GT500 is 760, but twice the weight. So if you cut that in half, power to weight ratio, it's like right on bar with basically high-end cars nowadays. Yeah.

So you just have to have the driver mod.

Yeah.

Do you see a lot of people like changing out like different gear ratios and all this stuff too, depending on their? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I have a customer with like, oh man, it's like a really like short. I mean, I think he tops out like 125 and it's a six-speed.

Oh, wow.

So like we're changing that, obviously, for for lower gear for him because he wants to do more drag racing. Oh, wow. Yeah.

It's a big drag racing scene with me.

How does oh, yeah.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah. There is actually a guy down in Orlando right now. His name is Carlos Rivera is from Magma Tuning. That dude is a genius. Like you think I know BPs. That dude is a BP king. And he's actually building a really nasty drag Miata right now. He's more of a drag scene guy. That's what his customers are.

And he's not swapping. He's using the Mazda stuff because I've seen people do that stuff. But then they put an LS in it.

We're not a swap shop. We stay true to what the car is. Swaps are for people that they can't figure it out.

Right.

So there's nothing wrong with it. It's just, you know, I like to just keep it how they come. It's a little bit more challenging, but at the end, you get a better result. You know, you don't see, you see a bunch of swap cars for sale right away after being built. What's the reason?

Well, they come with their own issues too, right? That's not always, yeah.

Got to pay the credit card.

Yeah.

You know, it gets expensive. Like a lot of people don't understand that, which if you had the money, then yeah, there's nothing wrong with doing that. But, you know, Miatas is supposed to be a budget bill. So why swap it and spend 10 grand just on the swap?

Right.

Just to be at the same power level, if you would have just gone turbo. So it's really hard to tell that to people because they don't understand that concept based on what they see on YouTube and social media. So.

But like, how fast are those drag me, like a king s*** drag me out of it? What are they running in the quarter or is that eighth mile?

No, it's a quarter. It's a quarter. Carlos just got beat, which is why I think he's going back and get his record back. He did seven, eight in a Toyota Starlet out of a trailer. I don't think it was dialed in very well. He got like maybe three hits, I think. I'm not sure. But the car wrecked at the top of the track.

But then, well, seven second Miata. I'm sure it's probably a little one.

Toyota Starlet.

Oh, OK.

Miata Motor.

OK.

And then not too long ago, which was three years later, this guy out west beat his record. I think it's like a seven, six, I want to say, or seven, seven.

And that's in the same Toyota?

No, that one's a Miata.

That one's a Miata? So seven, six in a Miata?

Yeah.

And that's...

But that one's a two liter stroker.

OK.

Where Carlos was doing a one eight.

Geez, that's crazy. OK, so I know some guys do like K-Swaps in Miata's. How does the motor or K-Swap? Sorry.

Yeah.

That's right. Yeah, it's going to be one of those days. But how did I get K-Swap from?

240s. OK, I'm building one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There we go. OK, that makes sense. But OK, so how does it compare to like K-Swap?

I'll say K-Swaps are like, man, anybody can build those things. There's so many supportive shops, which is great. Like you can make 1500 horse out of one of those. Like no problem. I mean, they're making up to 2000 horse. Let's be honest, which is nuts.

Well, if you put a six figure check into it, too, I'm sure.

Oh, yeah. Those cars is six figure plus.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it all depends like what your niche is. If you just want to stay true to the brand or if you just want to make it at S2000. There's nothing wrong with doing swaps. Like I said, it's just different. Different.

Right. It's just like what you, which again, goes back to use case. Like what are you going to use it for?

Yeah, exactly. And the only advantage I see doing a K-Swap on the Miata is if you're doing an all-motor class and you can't figure out how to make 230 out of a BP, which you can, but obviously it costs money. You know, you will have to do a stroker kit, which puts you up 2.1 liters. And then you have to do headwork, valve job, you know, all that stuff, cams. It gets really expensive building in there. And then you have to find a tuner that can actually tune it right. Because then it will have to be alfa N if you're doing ITVs. What fuel are you using? You know, are you using methanol? Are you using pump E85? So a lot of variants, but which you can do that on a K-Swap Miata easily with the stock ECU.

Just, you know. Just a quick Google.

Yeah, you know.

There's just so much support for that platform.

Yeah.

Yeah, compared to. Yeah. 100%.

So with LS ones, by the way, like you can just drop a LS in there and it'll be moving. Like that's that's a no brainer. You know, if people do coyotes, yes, there is a coyote swap.

All right.

If you can think of a swap has been done.

OK.

Yeah. Most likely. I think the best one, if you're going to do a swap, it's a rotary swap, which is actually the fastest Miata in the quarter. It's actually a rotary swap on.

OK.

Yep.

What's it running?

I have no idea. If you had to guess, it's 6-4.

It's in the sixes.

No, 7-4. No, it is in the sixes, actually. I think it's a 6-8. I'm sorry.

Yeah. That's crazy.

I have to check.

That's OK. Yeah. Yeah.

It's super fast. It's like. Yeah.

It's way faster than it ever was designed to be.

It's weird because you got well, not until recently, but like all the V8s, like swap ones were like not even on the top three. They're all like all Mazda and then the rotary.

Well, you take what was. I'm assuming you add quite a bit of weight that way by putting a big a** V8 in the front end of those.

Yeah.

I changed the dynamics of the car completely.

Yeah. So what people don't understand is that now you're fighting torque.

Yeah.

I mean, you have to set up your car very, very well in order to take that initial torque hit where you have a rotary, which makes no torque. And now you can actually put a lot of power without sacrificing traction.

Well, twisting the car in half.

Yeah. So to manage all that torque, you know, when you do those swaps, what goes into that then? Because that's a, I can't even imagine the amount of work you had to do to make it functional.

I mean, most of the time those guys are doing like, like an 8.8 rear end of some sort or a solid diff, like a, what's that, a four link or whatever. Yeah, they're doing a solid, solid, like rear diff. And just making it very old school and just kind of like, all right, we're just going to dial it in like the big Fox body cars or, you know, basically the same concept, just now a Miata shell. So it's not, there is one guy, I think it's still an IRS rear end, but most of the guys just go to solid. It becomes just not a Miata.

Right? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, drag is, you can't tell people that drag racing a Miata will be a Miata, because Miata is just meant for corners, right? And just having fun, but, you know, everybody has their own niche.

Well, that's what intrigues me most about them, is I want something that I can just like, I'm zipping around corners, doing all this stuff. That's what seems most fun to me. If I wanted to go fast in a straight line, I would build a fox or something like that.

Yeah, exactly.

So.

That is kind of the go-to, isn't it?

Yeah, no, they are.

It's proven.

Yeah. They were kind of just set up right out of the box to go in a straight line really fast.

What about the Miata from Power Cruise?

Yeah. That's got an LS with two big turbo sticking out of the hood. Oh, wow. It's...

He's Minnesota based. I think it says, I think it said like eight seconds or whatever on his plate or something ridiculous.

Oh no, it's power to weight.

Power to weight, yeah. There's like these crazy like slicks on the back and just, I mean, that thing was ridiculous. It's a white one. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Yeah.

I know that car for a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah. From when we used to go street racing.

Oh, yeah?

So, yeah, it's come a long way. So, Pricey went V8 because he had the force on it for a long time. And it was quick. Yeah. But I think it had a lot more in it. A lot of Miata guys when they start drag racing, they like go down the slope of like, oh, I can't figure out the force on there. And then it does just give up and then just go LS. Because it's a lot cheaper in your pocket. So, mess up an LS than to mess up actually a Miata motor. Because those things are expensive now. You're not getting into a Miata motor in less than like a 1600 bucks for a complete one. And it needs work.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

So, what's the take? Let's say I just bought a 2000 Miata, and I bring it to you, and I don't want to go in, and I don't want to stroke it, I don't want to do all that stuff. What gets me the most power for the most money?

Turbo kit.

Turbo kit?

Yeah.

Are we doing cams and things at that point too?

No.

No?

So, fun fact, those BP4W cams, again, Carlos down in Orlando has made 850 on those stock cams.

Holy s***.

So like when people, it's funny because a lot of customers will come to me and be like, I want to do cams. I'm like, what motor you have? Oh, BP4W. I'm like, why? You know, again, this is where conflict of Internet comes in.

Yeah.

And my experience and other tuners' experience, trying to explain that to people, it doesn't, it's very hard. So to be honest, on a car that you just want to take to the track and like, just be fast. I'll just be like, get some really good tires, some lightweight wheels and suspension and brakes. Leave everything stock. Once you get good and consistent in each lap, with that set up, we can go up in power. But until then, you don't need more power.

So otherwise, then we're talking turbo kit, injectors, fuel pump, maybe.

If you want to go all that, I would do cooling mods. That's like a big thing. I mean, I have one customer that's a BMW instructor, or used to, well, he had and then he sold it to his buddy, but the same car, that thing made 275 and 272 foot pounds. Very linear power band. And I mean, he went out with the BMW guys out there and they were like, what is done to that thing? And it's just a stock motor with like a Garrett GT2560R, which is pretty small, terrible. And yeah, we just send it like on E85 and it's been living for three, four years.

I was just gonna say, so then they'll live a decent life. That's not one of these things where like, you'd go out race for a season, then it's over with. Yeah, okay.

It lived for quite a while. Obviously it has quality stuff on there, so it's gonna last. You know, you get guys with like the CX Racing Turbo Kits, which I get a lot. Nothing wrong with them, they're just, you know, manifolds crack and obviously they want like flame tune. And I'm like, all right. Cool. I actually like, you know, D cell, you get some flames. It's kind of exciting, you know, but it does take a wear and tear on like all the components. You know, so kind of have to be mindful of that.

Yeah.

Same on the motor too. Like you start burning out the exhaust valves and dropping valves. You know, stock valve springs are not meant to bounce off the rev limiter.

No, probably not.

So what do those rev up to anyway? Like stock?

Stock is seven.

Seven.

Yeah.

Is that across all the generations roughly or? Okay.

Yeah. But, you know, if you're an autocrosser guy, you're pushing that in order to get that little longer gear. Some guys will rev it to 75, just fine. But then you start again wearing tear on the battle train. But if you do things right, you can do 8,500, you know, with a good at work oil pump gears, probably to ride out the gate. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. They don't like rev limiters very much.

I think the most you can rev out of those motors, 95. OK, everything, anything after that, your head is the limit, your head flow, which those heads are not anywhere close to be comparable to like a K-series head. They're just like old technology, you know, no lift, nothing fancy like that. So you kind of have to work with what you have.

OK.

Who are like the go to tuners? You said it's pretty hard to find like a good one. Is there just a very limited pool to begin with?

Well, I'm a tuner myself.

Right. OK.

So self plug.

So you're the go to. I'm the go to.

I'm the one in Minnesota. I mean, there's other tuners too. But nationwide, I only trust like a handful of them.

OK. That makes sense.

Yeah. Man, I don't even know how these guys are doing remote tunes with the Miata customers. Like it's, you know, a 16 year old kid just put his turbo kit together. Yeah, it's like a boost leak. You should be able to catch that. But what if not? If it's only like running like five pounds of boost on wastegate, you're like, you're like, tune this thing. You're like, man, it's doing weird stuff. Or you just leave it. Like what do you do? You know? So for me, that's what I, well, that's one things I've been trying to like work with. If I can do like a remote tune, which I have done it after I checked the car. Yeah, you know, and just kind of go over like, hey, your car is not in time. Like everybody that has a timing belt, they will mess it up. It's like the most common thing on Miata groups to be asked, is my timing right? And it'll take a picture. And it's like, man, you have to like, you should probably degrade your motor. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. There's, you can't really check time with just one picture, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out.

No, no. Yeah. There's multiple points to check.

Yeah, exactly.

And belt tension and all that stuff. Again, that's why I say these motors are great if you know what you're doing.

Right.

So it is a younger demographic typically, too, that gets access to them.

Yeah, it sells that. I get like the really youngest or the really old guys that have like way too much money, and they're just bored of their fast cars. And they're like, I want to have something that I had in high school or something that was fun. And they're just like, oh, a little Miata. It's like perfect. Yeah. Like, you don't have to have this like, I think that guy was saying like a Porsche GT3 RS. So have fun. I totally agree. Like, yeah, keep it simple, man. Like, why are you stressing out?

That's good. There's a reason why they've been coming through on my Facebook marketplace because I may or may not have been looking a little bit.

Yeah. I actually, my girlfriend picked one up a couple of years ago. And actually I bought it and I brought it to her and be like, hey, can can you help me diagnose this car? You have to drive it so I can hear this noise. And at that time, she's like, you Miata's no way, you know, she's like, OK, so we're driving. And I was like, hey, how do you like it? She's like, yeah, it's really fun. I was like, we like to own one. She's like, too bad. I'm like, well, it's yours. She's like, we bought it. I'm like, I have a problem buying cars.

Oh, yeah, no, we all. Yeah.

So we bought this thing. And ever since she's had it, she's like, yeah, this is it. Like she really likes that car and it's stock. I'm like, it's an R package car. So it has like the Bilstein's and the limited slip. No AC, no power steering. But she like loves that thing. She has an E55 AMG as a daily on my. So if you had to sell one, which one would you sell? She's like E55, I'm like, what?

That's crazy.

She's like, yeah, Miata is really fun. I was like, all right, cool. She's like, can I drive in the winter? I'm like, no, you're not driving this clean thing in the winter. Like it's too clean.

There's something about small cars, man. Like I learned how to drive manual on the BMW Z3.

Oh yeah.

Which granted like every time I would go to shift, I'd hit the steering wheel, because I'm a bigger guy. But it's like, man, if it just had one of those, I'm blanking on terminology, a quick release wheel, it'd be so much easier. Like it'd be perfect, you know, the seat lowering, you know. Cause I sat, so the previous owner of my car, he actually had a Miata. I'm not sure what year or generation. I was a little bit older.

Okay.

I was at least 10 years old.

Pop-up headlights?

Oh yeah. Pretty sure I had pop-up headlights. Yeah. And I sat in and I'm like, this is tight.

Yeah. There's like a bunch of ways of like making room for tall guys. I mean, Oh yeah.

It's just a funny looking over the windshield.

I have a really tall customer. He's, I want to say he's like 6'6 or 6'7.

Wow, he's even taller than me.

He's pretty tall.

Yeah.

And yeah, he had to like cut his floor and get a special like floor cut out to drop the seat and like bolt the seat to the floor and be an aluminum seat. But yeah, he drove it. He actually drifted the car, but he would drive to event, drift the car and then drive back.

Holy s***.

And it was turbo on like a 200,000 mile engine. And yeah, it was pretty reliable until eventually, obviously, wearing tear.

Yeah.

At that level, something's got to give. Right?

I mean, he wouldn't. I mean, the car was in there first. And then we went turbo. And he must have had it turbo for a couple of years at least, or maybe three years. Well, yeah, drove it everywhere. Also, I'd tell my customer, I'm like, don't let this thing sit. Drive the thing. Like it's, I built it, you know, for you to enjoy it. And yeah.

That's a theory we have, like me and one of my other friends who's actually been on this podcast before. Like our theory is, is like, for example, like some of these supercars, right? That just sit, they only see like, you know, a handful of miles every single year, but they switch so many owners. And then you look at like the car facts and has all these issues. But the ones that are like 30, 40,000 miles, no issues. I feel like if you drive cars, they don't break as much.

Yeah, I actually just sold my SL 600. It's a 98. Apart from this lady, I put about 40,000 or 30,000 miles into it. It had a, when I sold it, it was 190,000 miles for a 1998. Like it got driven. No issues. Like had all the power. It wasn't like, don't floor it. It's going to break. Like, no, like we're going to use it, you know, so yeah.

What about, I guess maybe we should probably talk a little bit about Rotaries then.

I want to get there because.

I sold the Miata conversation.

Well, this whole like race car thing, right? Like I said, we want to do some track stuff. Jay's doing some impressive stuff with this RX7, but I kind of like the way the RX8 look. What makes them such a, like, dude, I can get one for like $1,500, $2,500. I mean.

Check for rust first.

Rust, okay. So like, what makes them, what makes the RX7, the FD specifically, like so much more of a car. Yeah, than the RX8, right.

I'm going to go straight to the point. It's the looks. People don't like, when the RX8 came out, everyone was like, oh brother. Why is there a four door, you know?

But it's like a hidden four door. It's not really...

I love the RX. I've had an FC, I've had an FD, and now I have an RX8. And I'm like, which one would I pick over and over again? RX8. My interior doesn't fall apart. It's literally a stock motor right now, just full bolt-ons on the E85. And makes decent power. Should be making like 200, 220 somewhere on there, which is not the most, but it's enough to get you around a track and catch up to BMWs and Porsches.

Well, the guys are saying, in some of the RX stuff I've been looking into, the chassis on it's supposed to be pretty b***** too, right? For handling and everything.

Super underrated car. Yeah. People always come to my shop and they see that I have an RX, and they're like, well, how do you like that thing? I was like, I'm not going to even tell you how, I'm just going to take you for a spin, because you need to like experience it. My car is set up on 265 square, 18 by 10, 10 and a half. And it just has brakes, and it's not even on coilovers. It's on racing beat, lowering springs and sway bars, and Tokiko yellow adjustable shocks. And just with that set up, I mean, it's pretty quick out at DCTC. I mean, the guys kind of know the car out there, like, oh s***, here it comes. Is that loud as RX8? But it still has a full interior, so it has AC, my radio works. I put about 10,000 miles a year, so I do drive the car.

That's pretty good.

Well, I'll have other cars to drive, you know? I drive the s*** out of it and I beat on it. It's not like about it was 72,000 miles, now it has like 110 plus. Yeah, no problems. I will drive it everywhere. If it wasn't for E85 and the crappy 10 miles per gallon.

Yeah, it's okay. E85 is cheap, at least.

Yeah, E85 is cheap, but sometimes it's like, I'm supposed to go over this race in Iowa, which was like a private event, and I end up not going because I'm like, oh, I have a wheel bearing that's kind of like, you know, last minute stuff. I'm like, I probably can't even make it out there on E85 because there's no E85 near the track.

Yeah.

So I'm like, well, would I have to bring barrels of fuel? You know, I'm like, I don't want to do that. So I end up not going, which is kind of unfortunate. But it's one of the drawbacks, I would say. Other than that, it's a great car.

But back to his question, like what is it that scares people away from the RX8?

Oh, the rotary engine, the Renesis, you know. Most of them were not taken care of. Like for example, the first thing you should do when you're on a rotary is pre-mix and get rid of your cat. Like the moment you pre-mix or your cat gets clogged, or you don't pre-mix and your cat gets clogged, yeah, that engine is gonna go toast, like really fast. You're a tirader.

So they run like an oil injection. So that's the other thing that's weird to me. So they still have a like a sump, right, to oil stuff. But you wouldn't have an oil injection otherwise too for also into the fuel? Yep.

Yeah, so from factory actually has a oil metering pump, which takes crankcase oil and injects into the housing. So on early RX8s only had two per rotor. And on the late gen, which is S2, which is 2009 and up, they had three, so they had more oil. But what will happen is that these people will buy these RX8s and they'll never check their oil.

Not knowing that it's purposely pumping it into burn it.

So you end up with a starved mortar. Yeah. And they're like, well, why is my car using oil? And they'll just be like, I don't want this thing. This thing is broken. You're supposed to check at every other gas fill, which is quite often. I think it's like a quart every thousand miles or so, maybe less.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So it does use a lot. But you should be pre-mixing in case that oil metering pump fails, which does happen.

So you want to leave... So like on a... I'm thinking like to my snowmobiles and two-stroke stuff that I've got, right? So some people just get rid of the oil injection and just pre-mix. So if you pre-mix, you're still leaving the oil injection in place as well?

Yeah.

Okay. Yep.

Just because it's there.

Just throw all the oil at it.

Yeah. It loves it. Like the smokier it is, the better it is.

Yeah.

But yeah, that's, there's few guys on groups where they'll just buy a bunch of RX8s and they'll just make like, let's say they buy five, they'll make like three good ones out of all the pieces that I have. You know, with the opening of the motor, they'll be like, oh, we'll just throw some like, what's that, mystery oil stuff, let it sit overnight, start up the next morning, make a huge cloud of smoke for like half hour, and then the seals will be back in its solid state where they move and they're not stuck because of the carbon buildup, and then they'll be fine.

Is that another thing that's pretty common is carbon buildup in those?

Yep.

Okay.

So that's why when I say-

You're burning that much oil, you're going to have some-

Yeah, it's fair enough.

Well, now you have to evacuate it, right? So if your cat is clogged because it's been injecting a lot of oil, which is normal, they usually clog the cat, and there goes your motor. You're just packing basically carbon buildup to it.

Yeah, that's one thing. When I was looking into the rotary, I want to say maybe a few weeks ago, emissions is pretty much what killed it.

Yeah, it kills a lot of things.

Yeah, but if you use them for a race application, you know, right, get rid of the cats.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just just for the price that I've seen, I'm like, dude, I could buy one, race it for the weekend, throw it away, get another one, race the next weekend. It's just like they're going for a ridiculous. And I don't think they're a bad looking car. I like them.

I don't mind the looks either personally. Yeah, I've seen that there's a red one going around here. It looks pretty cool. It has like some stuff done to it, but...

That's mine.

Is it yours?

Yeah.

Do you have like the crazy vents on the hood and everything too?

Yeah.

Oh, that explains. Okay. Who's this douchebag? Yeah.

This is another idiot with an RX8.

Look, he thinks he's fast with the 1.3 liter.

Yeah. I think they're kind of cool. So what's the difference between that and then what's in the FDs? Like motor wise, is there much of a difference?

Yeah, there is. FD is a lower compression motor to begin with. Biggest difference is that exhaust ports are peripheral on the RX7, which means it's like just two holes, meaning that each housing has its own exhaust port. On the Renesist, it uses the irons for the exhaust port, so it's on the side, which if you think about it, that slows it down quite a bit, but they did that for emissions. But now there's people doing hybrids where you can take housings from an older RX7, not an FD, I think it's an FB, GLSE, I think it's the model number, but it's a 13B with the proper housing that you can use on the RX8 irons, and you can make a hybrid motor, but those usually are more for turbo use, not so much NA. NA ways have lost some power because there's too much exhaust, not enough intake type of scenario. So for NA, you want like a, what do they call it? I don't know if I'm saying this right, scavenging effect. So you have to be smart when you're building an old motor car, very picky.

I was just watching, actually on the way here, I was watching a video of, is it Rob Dom? Yeah. Building a three-rotor billet engine. And the other thing that intrigues me is the fact that, so he's building this thousand horsepower motor and he can literally like pick it up on the bench and move it around. Like I'm used to the V8 stuff. You got to have an engine stand. You're spinning stuff around. It's heavy as f***. You got to have a cherry picker. I almost like, like, it's just cute. You can sit it on your, right on your bench, build an engine and then slap it back in the car.

I don't know if you've ever been to any like drag racing event, but all the Puerto Ricans will come out with a bucket. The bucket is for you to sit the rotary engine in it, take it apart real quick, replace some stuff and throw it back in the car.

Really?

They use the bucket. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, those guys really impressed me. Like man, they know some cool stuff and tricks about those motors. You were saying that four rotor motor, like, dude, that's like a hundred grand. Really? Yeah, that's a hundred thousand dollar like keg. Billet, all billets, that's a hundred grand. Yeah, like it's crazy what those motors. I want to get a 20B, like a three rotor or I mean, if I'm lucky enough, a four rotor. But man, the money that they fetch is ridiculous. And I think that's why a lot of people just swap these cars, because man, you can pick up a K-Swap motor for what? 200 bucks. If you're crafty enough, you can make your own engine mounts and stuff. Have to have to buy an adapter play of some sort. But yeah, you can get into it pretty easily, which is sad, because again, just go buy another car, man. Stop ruining these RX, these rotary engines.

The rotary is such a, like, just simplistic design that is, I mean, it's just nuts to me that they do what they do.

Like I said, once you figure it out, it's really hard not to like advertise that as a like, it's actually a pretty good motor.

So I feel like, give it a year of putting out highlights from this episode, we're going to see like a 5X in cost. So, you know, there's some insider information. Go buy some RX8s real quick. And then sell them for 5X in a year from now.

Yeah. They're actually getting pretty hard to find already. And the price has gone up. Like if you want to clean one, you're paying like 5,000.

Yeah.

Even with like a low compression motor. Like, you know, if you want to clean one. But it's hard to find them.

Well, something to look out, like besides the rust thing you mentioned earlier, what else is there to look out for? Like if you're trying to buy one, an RX8 in particular.

If you look underneath, you see oil leaking from the cat, maybe you should run.

Just buy and just do a quick rebuild. You know, if it comes down to it, they're not that complicated. You go in the groups, people will help you out. You can find all the info on it. A lot of people are like, oh, we're going to do this and port. I'm like, no, just leave it. Just do a light port if you're going to do anything. Very light. You're not going to pick up power. You're just going to basically pick up sound. Little bit of power on top.

That's what I was going to ask. Yeah, because you can't do much porting with those, can you?

Not on the Renesys. The Renesys motor is an RX8. But if you have an FD or FC or FV, yeah, you can do a lot of stuff to those.

Really?

Yeah, unless you make, you know, if you make the Renesys a peripheral port exhaust, then you can kind of throw everything at it, type of scenario. But I wouldn't recommend it if you're just trying to, like, buy a car and just go track it. Like, that's not how it works.

So if you needed to rebuild an RX8, though, what's that cost? Like, if I didn't do it myself, I brought it to somebody like you to have it.

It's like, pretty expensive.

Is it?

Yeah.

Okay.

It depends what's damaged on it. I mean, Mazda was selling their kegs for, I want to say, $6,000, $4,000, actually $4,000.

Okay.

But now they're like, I think they're like $6,000 or $7,000.

Oh, really?

Maybe $9,000 if you go into an FD motor. So they went up in price. So that option is kind of like, you know, not really feasible. So I used to tell people $8,000.

Okay.

Yeah. With labor, if you want to have a shop, do it and go over the whole car and actually make it like good.

That's not that's that's coyotes cost you $10,000 to rebuild. So I mean, it's pretty comparable.

Yeah.

But I guess when you're done, you have a $30,000 to car versus a $5,000 car.

Exactly. So you have to be committed.

Yeah.

So it's a bit of a cult following. For sure. Like if the RX8 is just it, there's just.

It's a weird niche.

Yeah.

Definitely a niche. Yeah. I can't like gauge the people that have RX. Either it's like completely stock or like clapped out drift car or, you know, swapped. Most of them I see. I'm like, yeah, that's probably going to be swapped because they just gave up on the Renesis motor.

Yeah.

I get really excited when I see one on the freeway. I'm like, oh sweet. And I'll catch up to it and I look over and be like some teenage girl, like it's automatic, RX8. Like this is her first sports car. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, okay.

Poor thing's probably not getting all the oil it needs.

No, definitely not.

I just remembered, yeah, I saw you on 169 South. That's where I saw you last.

Yeah. You're probably like, car in your ears. I think it's pretty loud. Yeah, it only has like one muffler in that day. It's pretty much straight piped. Was I messing with you?

No, no, I was literally like stop and go traffic.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, sometimes I like to mess with people. Yeah. Yeah, it's fun.

Yeah.

It's like the slowest car, by the way. Everybody wants to race. I'm like, a minivan will probably be this thing.

You said you're making what, 220?

I'm never nighting at it. So I'm going to say anywhere from 200 to 220. It's a used motor. That's been beat to s***.

You have a turbo kit on it and E85 is...

No.

No, nothing?

No, just all motor E85 with full bolt-ons on a stand-alone ECU, tuned by me.

Oh, so it's NA then?

Yeah. Oh, wow.

Okay.

Yeah, it's all motor.

Would you ever consider doing a turbo on it?

Yeah, I already have plans for it.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Yeah.

What are people getting out of those, like, power-wise? Yeah, for the renaissance.

Turbo-wise?

Yeah, yeah, like for full-on builds, like if they're building them to the gills.

I mean, there's one guy that made, like, 600, but I wouldn't really consider that, you know, a legit number because it was, like, a little spike towards the end because they were using a giant turbo on it. So it's not... there's really no power band on it. I'd say if you really just want to be like, I want to drive the thing, let's say 400. 400 is a good number. On a, like, 100% stock 6-port, which is the manual engine, which is more dedicated to, like, NA as the ports have to be different in order to take boost better, which the automatic RX8 engine is. So if you were to build a turbo one, I would use an RX8 automatic housings or plates and then use the older RX7 housings for the peripheral port exhaust.

Right, okay.

And then that way, if you do that and you know what you're doing, you can make 600, I guess, like, easily. So.

How do you go about, I, again, is it like me and Dan, or this is a whole new world for us, right? Like, some of these questions might sound stupid to somebody who might be an expert in this, but like, how do you go about getting more rotors, right?

Is it just like longer studs? You just bolt them together, right? And everything works out?

Not really. So the centric shaft, which is a crankshaft that they use, you'll have to get a custom one made for the plates and housings that you're using. So certain motors are going to be shorter or longer, depending on what you're using. So I used to tell people we want to start stacking, you know, rotors, you better have a stack in your wallet. So like, it gets really expensive, basically.

Yeah, there's a guy out there with like 12 or something, right, do you know how many have gone together the most? Is it 12, I think?

Might have been, I think, the most I've seen is five.

Is it a boat? No, it's a boat motor that you're talking about.

Oh, that's the guy who's got them stacked like, it's three, four rotors, like in a V8 configuration almost. Yeah, I think that one's really weird.

Yeah.

Yeah, that one was done a long time ago. That's an old motor man.

Well, like I said, I'm just going through rabbit holes of trying to do a little bit of research before this.

I think that's the one. I'm actually really excited for the five rotors stuff. This have a unique sound.

Yeah, it's not a video like a month or two ago.

Yeah. And obviously the six six rotors, like that thing is just wild. It sounds really good. Would I want it in my car? No. Like I'm already getting 10 miles per gallon, man. Like, oh, yeah, like the fuel on that engines, it's not efficient at all. So you just have to like hose it down with fuel and boost in order to like do something, you know, even in a form, you will have to just hose it down.

Yeah.

You know. But I don't know. To me, like a good driving rotary car, just a two rotor man.

Yeah.

Two rotor.

That's what Jay's is, right?

I think so.

I'm pretty sure it's a two rotor.

He's waiting for it to blow because then he's going to go three rotors what he wants.

No, don't do that.

Really?

No, you don't need three rotors.

I have to say, his thing is freaking pretty snappy as it is, and he's pulling some great times out on the track.

So he's making like mid 300s, but it can make up to five is what he said.

Yeah.

Does that sound about accurate?

Yeah, that sounds right.

OK. I mean, why not three, though?

Three rotors just becomes so expensive, man. And now you're just adding this extra thing that come on. Like the more you add, the worse it's going to get for real course.

Right.

You know, the only way I can see it's if he does like a nasty like A&A build. That will be that will be the way to go. If you're a driver, you want like the response, the throttle response. Turbo, I mean, has great response, but then now you're fighting the initial torque. You know, it depends how it gets tuned, obviously.

Right.

So if it's like a nasty power band or if it's just like very linear.

His sucks in the low end. Like, it's bad.

Yeah. When that turbo fires up, it takes the F off, but it's a little lacking in the bottom end. Yeah.

So it can be like, you know, manifold set up, wastegate set up, turbo set up, turbo exhaust housing. Like, there's so many factors when it comes to like building a proper good working, you know, rotor engine.

So do they, given the lack of valve train and all that kind of stuff, is it? Are they more susceptible? So you say you got to hose it down with fuel, basically. So he's was super worried that his wastegate quit opening and he hit 30 pounds of boost in it. Do they have a tendency to lean out like a, like a normal engine would or?

I mean, you have this. They'll be all in the tomb, you know?

Yeah.

Personally, I will put a boost limiter. So if it hits boost cut, have like a, you know, have a limit, don't have it. If it's set up for, you say set up for 15, 12, somewhere.

15 is like the max.

Yeah.

And he hit about 30 when his Banjo bolt came loose on his vacuum. Right.

So for me, I would just, not fuel cut, but fuel and spark cut at certain points, which some people might be like, oh, well that would detonate and blow up your motor. Well, maybe.

Yeah.

So it all depends on, you know, it all depends on the tuner. Like, everybody has different ways of...

So they're also susceptible to like pre-ignition and stuff, though, like a regular engine would be. OK.

Yeah. So detonation is like the end. Like you detonate once, it's done. Like there's no like, oh, I'm going to fix it. No, like it's that's it. So you have to know, you know, what the limits are. I mean, is it OK to go to 30 pounds? Yeah, it might be fine if it's a built motor. And the tuner was like, we'll just keep it here, but we're going to make the fuel table all the way to 30 pounds. And same with timing and keep it safe. Yeah, let it shoot up to 30 instead of fuel cut or not fuel cut. I should say just limiter, boost limiter.

So if he had damaged something, basically, he would know it.

Oh, yeah.

OK.

Yeah, definitely.

OK.

I mean, you would try to start that thing and it wouldn't start right away until it's cool and, you know, weird issues will start happening afterwards. Maybe hot start issues. Well, OK. Smoke.

More than normal. More than normal. Yeah. So like, I think I brought this up. I think it was in Jay's episode, right? Like when you have knock and all that, like, you know, when something goes catastrophically wrong in a normal, like a V8 or whatever, you get a piston through the side. What happens with a rotary? Like when something goes catastrophically wrong?

I mean, most of the time, you're breaking the apex seal. OK, so what will happen that apex will travel everywhere. It shatters basically. And then you have fragments going everywhere. So you'll destroy the housings and possibly the rotor itself. And who knows why? It's it's very catastrophic. Like you blow one up, like you most likely not going to use that engine ever again.

Like any any component of it, it sounds like.

Yeah.

Like everything's.

Yeah, everything's f*****. I mean, I've seen it where like you you blow the front rotor and then you'll see shrapnel go to the rear rotor via intake. And then like you're then you're done. You know what I mean?

So it's not as simple as, oh, I just blew an apex seal.

No.

OK.

No. Yeah. Most of the time is not. Especially a turbo car like it really does a lot of damage.

OK.

So is there anything you could ever salvage? Because I know some guys that, you know, you see blow motors sometimes downstairs and you could salvage a lot of things. Yeah.

It all depends when it happened. You know, what's it like? 9000 RPM with 30 pounds of boost. There was a lot, you know, during traffic and you just ran it dry with oil and. Something happened, you know, like some small stuff. Yeah. So it all depends. Or I see a lot of them, not a lot of them, but a very common one is a coolant seals on the apex. Not on the apex, on the irons for the motor. They'll like corrode because they'll use like not a proper antifreeze and they'll end up corroding and making a hole and then you'll have a coolant leak. So in that case, you can salvage a motor, like 95% of it.

Okay. Jay, are you listening? He's not listening to this episode. He's gonna have 100%.

This is like the episode where you get all the knowledge, like all the good info for Rotaries and Miatas, I guess.

Dude, I'm telling you, he's right now, he's probably got a notebook or a notepad on his phone, and somebody's probably talking to him. He's like, hold on one second, I gotta write this down. So what goes into like a build motor? Like if you want to, again, like...

Is it the same, like are you getting diamond pistons? Is there like forged rotors and...

No, not really.

No, no.

So should we just keep it RX7 topic? Because RX8 is like, well, if you have an RX8, it's like...

Let's do RX7 first.

Let's say not a lot of people are building RX8s really.

So after this episode, it might.

Or RX, I'll just keep it simple. I mean, a lot of people like to stud them because they like that initial torque hit of a turbo spool. So if you're doing that, I would recommend studs, obviously. But if you have a big giant turbo, bolts are going to be just fine. People like to stud them, too, like put bigger dowels. And then you just get better apex seals and make sure you use all OEM, everything else. Don't buy like aftermarket stuff. Just stick OEM and that's it. Better bearings you can do. Some people are doing dry sump, which.

I've seen that. That's what that guy was doing on that other build. That looks complicated.

Yeah, yeah, it gets really expensive. Yeah, mainly. But is that a better system for road course? Oh, absolutely. You know, you can you have a bigger capacity and it's always the same oil pressure. You don't have air bubbles happening. OK, so it gets a little more technical once you start building like road course stuff. I feel like for drag racing, not really. You just slap it in and go.

Right. Well, you're it's more taxing on the engine for a longer period of time when you're doing road course.

Yeah. And Rotaries, I mean, they they're like the hottest engine they run. They run so hot. It's crazy. Really? Oh, yeah.

Well, that's what he was saying, too. He has it's like a not pressurized coolant system on his FD. Is that pretty normal, too? I mean, there's like a soropod. Yeah, I don't know what he's got. He was it was like it's something different or whatever. So I'm not sure.

Cool.

It was like not pressurized.

Is he talking about like an external water pump? What's electric?

I don't think he has that either. I don't know. It was rotary stuff. I was half paying attention. I'm like, that doesn't seem right to me.

I keep my bills pretty simple. I don't go too crazy.

Okay.

Like I said, I like to keep them simple. And as long as you do the right things, it should work.

Okay.

You know, so I don't know.

It's, yeah, they're just, they look so cute in there.

Like I said, they're awesome.

What you can make out of something that size is nuts to me.

Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. And Mods is talking about bringing back the RX.

I keep hearing that.

Yeah. It's been years. I've been like four or five years since, you know, like, oh yeah, it's coming back.

But aren't they bringing it back like as a generator or something? I saw something about that.

Well, that's, you know, that's a generator. But yeah, it looks like a really good platform because I mean, they already released it on a little SUV and it's a one rotor, but it's a one liter one rotor. So now it's bigger, you know. Okay.

So the potential bolt and a couple of those together is pretty good.

Or there are some people already buying those parts and making like billet housings and stuff.

Really?

To make like a two rotor or three rotor. So if a three rotor would be a three liter, that would be crazy. Like, you know, if you buy a three, three liter now or three rotor is only a two liter. So that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So the one, you know, two rotors, it's only a 1.3. So if they come up with this newer motor, the two rotors should be a two liter, which is a big, big, huge like gain for power. Yeah. I don't know about revs. Revs might be a little bit lower because of the size. But it's just should be a pretty decent platform. People are like, oh, it's hybrid. Like, who cares, man? Have you ever driven a like a hybrid race car? They're fun. Like you get that initial torque of, you know, the electric motor and then your power gets carried out.

Last year, I drove like a 2017 NSX.

Yeah.

And it's just so fun.

Yeah.

It's ridiculous.

As long as it's controllable, which most new cars are. So I don't see why. Why not?

Displacement is a weird thing on one of those. I was watching a video about it because it's like, what you say, is like a 1.3 for a two-door road or whatever. But technically, it would be like double because of like how it works. Like, I've heard the argument before.

Yeah, I don't go down that road.

Yeah.

I just like, this is what it makes and this is what it is.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm not going to get too technical on it. What's going to do at the end of the day?

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

When did they stop making the RX8?

2011. Oh, yeah. 2011. I want to say.

For some reason, that's the number I had in my head too. Not that I would ever even know.

But if you need an RX3, RX8, like the later gen, R3, like you have gold, they're going for so much money now.

Oh, really?

Yeah. That's going to be like a collector's car again. If or a track ready car, they come with like Recaro buckets, Belty suspension. I mean, it's like a track ready car. OK, but you're going to be paying like 15000, 10,000, a little bit more than just a 5000.

That's still like you're talking to a guy who's driving a $70,000 car on the track. So like a $15,000 track car sounds kind of intriguing to me. So I don't wreck my expensive one. You know, I feel like I'd be like, screw it. Let's throw it into the wall. Let's see what happens here. Yeah.

And like I said, it will just make you a better driver.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, like when you have an expensive car, you try not to have that price tag in the back of your mind, but it's always there. Yeah.

That's kind of where I get at with it. Right. Yeah.

And then you become slower and then you don't really push your limits. So again, that's why I go back to go karting for a long time. Rental go karting. You can go out there with a bunch of friends. And yeah, they're not going to be all the same speed. But that's why you'll be like, Oh, is that one fast? Yeah, let me try it. And you'll switch out and try to.

See, that's a promise. I'm a big guy, right? So that's where like, I've got friends that like to go karting. I don't know, but I'm always in the slowest kart because I'm usually- I have not done that yet. Get into one where they do ballast or whatever. But you know, when you're 70, 80 pounds heavier than some of the people you're racing, it doesn't really work out.

It only depends to what track. If it's a very open layout, you actually might be pretty quick. The weight actually might help you. Stick better on the turns. As long as it's not like a super sharp and you have to brake a lot. So obviously, acceleration does take. So you just have to play with, you know, your driving technique will be different than my driving technique, obviously. So.

You know what's my favorite track is Stockholm Karting Center out here?

Yeah.

Dude, that track is gnarly.

Yeah, we rent that every summer for like two hours.

And yeah, I rented it once a few years ago too.

You message a bunch of people and be like, hey, let's go, let's go for fun, you know.

Have you been to that track yet?

I haven't.

So if you remember Venom Rally when we went out to Niagara Falls, that one was a.8 one. And we did a really cool Le Mans set up. I wish they would do that out here.

Was that like a standing start?

Yeah, standing start. And then you have four to a team, and then you have to switch out. It was super cool. But the one out here in Minnesota is.67 miles, or whatever it was, outdoor track. It's so cool. I need to go back there. It's been a year or two.

Yeah.

It's a hike, though.

It is, but it's worth it.

It's so worth it. Get 10 buddies, do a cruise out there, get lunch and everything. Because I think it's like, this is really good. Like, Asian restaurant we went out to, that was really good out there. Like halfway there. It was good.

Nice. Yeah.

Glad to do that soon.

Maybe I can join you guys.

Yeah. We want to lose. Yeah.

I'm not the fastest. Just, you know. Yeah.

Do you have a usual group of suspects you go with?

Yeah. Yeah, I do. And they're pretty good. And one of them is my shop buddy, which I share the shop with. His name is Chan Chong. I mean, he's been doing go karting for a long time. So I kind of like him and I go back and forth. I'm like, who's fastest? But I think he's faster for sure. Has more experience. Yeah.

So if you go to Pro Kart in Burnsville, what are you setting for a time out there? I have no idea.

I don't go to.

I remember seeing somebody do like a 16. I'm like, f***. It was just so fast.

Chan can probably hit that.

Yeah.

Like no problem. I get motion sickness now because I'm old.

It is a thing, right? As I'm getting older too, it's getting a problem.

So now indoor stuff is like a no to me. If I do have to take motion sickness pills, which is like, man, that sucks. I can do maybe like three or four races. And after that, I'm like, I used to go out. I used to be pretty good at MB2. I don't know if you ever went to that. Was it electric go-karts?

I've never been there, but yeah, it's gone now.

Yeah, I had all the track layouts. I had the lap records for.

Oh, wow.

So until it kicked me out. Like, man, you come here too much. But no, it was cool. I like go-karting just because it's fun. As long as you don't get people that are like sore losers, you can't have those people. You have to have people that are like, are willing to be like, this is just for fun, because that's what we're going for. But it'll still be a little bit challenging.

I feel like some people take that whole go-karting and bumper cars thing too, a little bit too. I got thrown in the wall a couple of times go-karting. Yeah, and I'm like, dude, that hurts, man. On the real go-karts, that's not fun. Yeah, you can break your ribs.

Like I've seen people break ribs from a side hit. That's pretty bad. So I just try to go with a group that's like, they're gonna learn from the faster guys. And the faster guys are just like, yeah, I'm okay sharing the knowledge, which is great.

I try and treat it like real racing. I'm not here. Like I, our cars aren't supposed to touch each other. That's, you know, if I was on, we were at Road America.

You can bump if the guy in front of you is a little slower.

Yeah.

Give them the bump so they know.

So you're gonna get the hell out of the way.

Maybe move over, give them three, three chances. If not, you just go give them that little extra pusher on the corner so they go straight.

All right. Don't go kart with you. I get it. All right. Just kidding.

If you know the rules, you'll be okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got so mad. Like when I went to a pro kart and I think it was Burnsville, a f****** like 12 year old put me into a wall. Like I went under the wall because the wall wasn't secured or whatever. So I literally went under it and like the front of my car has all that whatever rubber and tire. And like I was bleeding from my forearm. I was so mad, dude.

I beat up a 12 year old. You wanted to, didn't you?

I was so mad. I was going to see some nasty crashes. Yeah. But my favorite is that one, the video that goes viral like once a month of like just like six people just running into each other into that 190 degree turn. And one guy just didn't slow down at all. Just gets rubber banded back. Yeah. Any exciting projects you're working on right now then? A lot of you guys know Ratafied Motorsport for their RS3, TTRS, 1000 horsepower hairdresser car builds, but they are so much more than that. From basic maintenance on an R35 GTR to, you know, cute little Volkswagen GTIs like mine, they're able to do a little bit of everything. Whether it's your basic maintenance or an intake in a tune or even a full blown build, be sure to go to ratifymotorsport.com to get yourself booked today. And I hope to see you guys at the shop.

Yeah.

What are you working on right now?

So right now I have a client that has a Ford Escort. Out of all things, he's had it since, that was his first car. And it's like this, I mean, you look at it and you're like, this is definitely like an early 2000s, like 200 car.

Oh, okay. I was going to say, depends on what year of Escort, because some of those 80s and 90s ones, I think are kind of cool.

Yeah, it's a 93.

Okay.

It's a GT.

Okay.

So it's a two door hatchback. But yeah, it's super cool because it's very nostalgic looking. Like you look at it and you're like, damn, that's cool. Like if you're wearing that, you know, if you were in the street scene back then, you're like, oh yeah, this is pretty cool, man. Like it brings back memories. Actually, that's how I met him.

Oh really?

Yeah, street racing.

Okay.

But yeah, it's crazy because I don't think people are ready to see how fast that car is, but it has a Miata 1.8, fully built. It's on FuelTech. It has a really nice turbo setup, built by a buddy of mine, Damon Larson. It's, I mean, like if you want to see a car that's well done, that's the one.

Really?

Yeah, it's a full on build. I've had it in my shop since October, I think.

Oh wow.

It's been there for a while. It's been like a drag in project. But it started off like, oh hey, just finish it. And I'm like, well, this is wrong. And then we have to change this. And then you're going to make, he should be making 600 horse when it's done. But I'm like, your bushings are stock. Like we need to upgrade all this. This car is not meant to make that type of power. So we did a lot of new things for suspension and stuff. Wheel bearings and brakes and everything, basically. I even other coded the car for him.

Oh really? Yeah.

So I think that's pretty extensive. And I have a couple of Miata guys that are going off the wall, like all out builds. Like one of them is getting beat locks. Like it's getting serious. Like the Miata guys are kind of like going down this path. I'm like, whoa guys, I wasn't expecting you to go this far. So, I mean, I have another customer that has an 8.8 rear end with a TKX 5-speed, on a fully built 1.8 motor. Like whatever turbo you put on there, you can launch it and not have to worry about breaking a transmission or rear end.

Why would somebody need beat locks on a Miata? Like what are they doing? How crazy is it getting?

Oh yeah, it's getting pretty crazy. Like, yeah, think about it, this car is pretty light. So like you're going to need some tire.

So you can't fit a big tire underneath there either, can you?

You can if you do some, obviously, you have to cut up some stuff.

Right.

Are you cutting up some stuff?

I don't think so.

Okay.

I think we're going the other way. We're going outside. So we might have to run like fender flares or something like that.

So how big of a tire is it going to be like a 265 or something?

No, not even.

Really?

Yeah, I'll be at 225.

Oh, wow. Okay.

225 and still need a wide body.

But it's a street art tire. So it measures out to be like nine inches wide. So the 225 is just a number to be on a street class tire or whatever. But yeah, I think it'll be sweet. He just wanted to do it. I was like, yeah, let's do it. I mean, I kind of I was like, how could it be to be to have a Miata with beadlocks? And he's like, oh, I think I planted that seed and I felt bad. He's like, dude, beadlocks are like, you know, 2600 a piece. I'm like, yeah. He's like, I think it'll be cool. And then he got some really nice wheels for the fronts too.

That doesn't look b*****, though.

Yeah, it's a and he's going all out. Like that's going to be a pretty fast car.

So like when you say pretty fast car, and you don't have to disclose it entirely, but are we talking like, you know, low 300 horsepower or?

Oh, no, no, no. Like engine, the engine I'm building him, it's good up to 850.

Jesus Christ.

So and he's on a 6466 turbo.

Okay. And that's still the stock motor, right?

Or like it's a one eight. BP4W, 99, 2000.

Okay, so 99, 2000.

But are you stroking in all that stuff then too? No, no. Oh, okay.

I never want to do that, by the way. Like stroking a motor is just weakens similar walls or a turbo application. For NA, I would. But for the guy, I haven't came across a customer that's like, oh, I want to build a stroker to one, because dude, just a stroker to one, just a bottom end, it's like seven grand, eight grand. Like it's, that was a lot of money for a Miata. You know, one, two billion Miata. You don't really get to see numbers like that.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

So if it's good for 850, but you're not going to necessarily take it all the way up to the ragged edge, I'm guessing.

I mean, that'll be up to the customer. Obviously, up to the customer. I'm like, hey, we're going to build this thing to be capable of this. And then you just work your way up there. You don't have to go all the way up there.

So you're doing sleeves and stuff then or you're doing rods and pistons, things like that, then or?

So sprods, pistons, studs, headwork, you know, stockings.

You gotta mess with the crank or anything at that point, too?

No, stock crank is good for people who have made a thousand plus on stock crank.

I can't imagine a thousand horsepower Miata. I thought the Honda guys were crazy. And now we're talking Miata's jerk, you know, even lighter. Yeah, that's nuts.

So that's why I say I just keep it simple. Like, I'll just keep saying that to everybody.

It doesn't need to get it's not a platform that needs to get carried away. No, I mean, people tend to.

And it gets expensive. Like Miata stuff is not cheap just because you have to like do certain machine work and stuff to make it stronger. You know, like running half inch studs instead of the factory size. You know, lifting heads is kind of a thing for Miata's because, you know, they're kind of are torquey to begin with. Like for most of the motors that are making 300 and making 300 foot pounds. So think about that first. It all comes in within the range of 500 RPMs when it goes from like being 120 horsepower motor to like 300. So you have to kind of take that in consideration when it comes to tuning.

Well, it also comes in tiers, right? Like if you look at any car, it's like, all right, you get to this power level. Now you have to do this. Right. So what are like the tiers if you're talking about Miata power, right? Like obviously, an 800 horsepower build is different than a 300 one. So like, what are the, is it like, was it caught? Like what's the price difference between a 300 and an 800 horsepower Miata?

Well, 300, I wouldn't even open up the motor, to be honest.

OK.

I would just put head studs on stock head gasket and then valve springs and the oil pump gears. So that's basically it. And then you can set up a turbo. You know, most people are going with Megasquirt, ECU, which is fairly cheap. I recommend FuelTech, because if you're going to invest that top of money, you should probably protect it with the good ECU.

So what's that roughly come out to?

I just tell like if you bring me a stock Miata and you say I want a turbo and make up to 300, it's like 12,000.

Okay.

And that's to clarify. 12 to 15 depending on the quality that you're going with.

And that would again, that's the 99, 2000?

No, that's just any Miata.

Any Miata ever. Okay. Got you. And then now on the flip side, let's say something that's 800 horsepower.

Oh man, that goes.

Add another 10 on top of that maybe?

Oh no, we're going. It gets expensive. So just a long block ends up being, I mean, now you're adding a lot of machine work too. I want to say 15,000 for just a long block. Oh well. Yeah. So it gets really expensive, obviously using a lot more exotic materials and quality stuff.

So you get the long block, then what else goes into that? I guess, do you have to worry about upgrading like, I can't remember which set are the transmission and all that stuff too?

Oh yeah. Yeah. I say if you want to make 850, like be ready to spend like 40 grand.

Okay.

40 to 50 grand.

Yeah. Which seems on par with everything else when you're given the level of...

It's not a scary number. Like you had some big number, but it's not terrifying.

Not for what you're getting.

For what you're getting.

You will die. You will die in that thing. Like if you don't have traction control, if you don't have stuff that makes it easier to drive, you will hurt yourself. I mean, 300 horses is a lot. It's a handful for some people.

So you do almost three times that.

Yeah. So, you know, go in stages until you turn it up a little bit. Like, all right, man, this feels fast. And then like a month later, you're like, oh, I'm kind of used to it. You know, you don't go from like going from go-karting to like an F1 car without any training in between and experience, you know.

Yeah, that makes sense. It does. It checks out.

So, what... So, is there anybody doing like, I guess, big power in like the more recent year ones? Like, what's the latest generation?

Oh, man. I'll lose track. It's ND. Yeah, ND platform, which is like the angry eye looking one.

Yeah, yeah. And that's like the last like seven years, something like that.

I don't know. Yeah.

Not sure when they came out.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are not really big power. Limiter is that they're direct injection. So, you can't just like buy a mega score for it. You have to get it tuned, which I'm not touching any stock ECU stuff. Like, there's no safety parameters.

For newer ones or just in general?

Just in general.

Okay. You prefer for it to be, what'd you say, FuelTech?

FuelTech or anything that's just a stand alone. Honestly, I'm not afraid of touching any stand alone. I can do it.

That's what I've heard from, like I just did an episode with Calarkin last week. He's big on stand alones as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Stock is good. But once you start getting to like, serious builds, like you should probably just go stand alone.

You want a little more flexibility with it?

Yeah. I just look at the point of like safety parameters. Like if something goes wrong, can the ECU stop it from completely destroying itself?

You can put more like nannies into a stand alone.

Actually, a lot of newer cars, like high-end cars, actually have the capability of doing that. But the tuning on those, man, I give them props. There are so many tables for those things. Like there's so much stuff. So I like to keep it, again, going back to just keep things simple. It's just easier to do it that way. It's better for me and the customer.

That should be your first t-shirt, by the way. Keep it simple.

Keep it simple.

Yeah, that should be your merch for your show.

There we go.

I like it. I haven't made shirts yet.

I haven't made any. My whole shop has just been like word of mouth. Like if you know.

And you're booked out to October, right?

Yeah, and it's like big. The escort kind of dropped me back a little bit. It's been like, hey, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. I'm like, oh man, still here. But I'll eventually get it done. So it's gonna be a great cart. Like I don't like Russian stuff. Like I like to take my time and make sure that everything goes as good as if it was my own car. So I take a lot of pride in like what I do. Might take you a little bit longer, but at the end of the result, you're gonna be a lot happier. Like I want to see this forest group leave the shop and not come back for like just mains and that's it. Like, I don't want to be like, oh, something broke. Like I would just, you know.

Well, if you were pumping out cars like that, then you probably would stop getting cars at some point in time. If you're sending crap work out, then people aren't going to be coming to you either.

Right. So there's like a balance of things. The people that appreciate, like I always tell people, I'm like, are you going to keep the car? They tell me no. I'm not going to suggest them to build it because I'm like, well, you're going to spend this money and then enjoy it for like a year and then sell it. Like, what's the point? I want kind of a customer basis. Like the people are very, you know, passionate of what they have and what they're willing to do with the car. So, if they're like, yeah, at least five years, I'm like, yeah, let's do something cool. You know what I mean? Or if there's, most of the time, there's a history behind the car that I'm working on. So, which is very unique.

I should have asked this question like a half hour ago, but so, and I think you may have already sort of answered it, but for example, like one thing that Jay was complaining about in his RX7 is like, there's really no any low end. Is there any way to mitigate that?

Oh yeah, yeah. What's no power at low end? Like how low is he going?

That's a good question. I'd have to look at his video. It's just, like we talked about earlier, it's like they really wake up at higher RPM.

Right, like is he starting at zero and then like there's no boost until 4,500 RPM.

Like autocross, right? Like if he goes into second gear, he's not gonna, and then he has to go back into first. It's just a whole weird thing, because he's not able, what did he say? He's not able to downshift into first.

He can't go into first, which we were talking a little bit before this. He says kind of a Mazda problem.

Oh really?

Yeah, yeah. You have to have certain things in order. The right fluid, take apart the transmission. Is it hurt? Is the synchro hurt? Or what shifter you have in there? Even a shifter could stop you from going into that. I've had that issue. So there's a lot of things that play into that.

So if he wanted to wake it up, right when he switches into second gear, then is there anything that he could do to liven it up?

I mean, if it's turbo, just go smaller turbo.

That's what I was suggesting to. I was just curious.

But doesn't necessarily have to be smaller. You just have to be more efficient. OK, so is this turbo manifold efficient to flow at low RPM? Or is this just a big old freaking manifold that has no velocity? You know what I mean?

I think he's got a lot of dated parts on there. I think this car was built by an older gentleman, engineer guy. So I think a lot of the parts are from like probably 10, 15 years ago. This guy built this car and all that stuff. And there's probably been some advances.

Yeah, the guy owned it for 20 years.

So the turbo technology is not there, let's be honest. Turbos nowadays flow way faster than any old turbo. And they're more efficient and they're smaller and they make way more power. So in his scenario, I don't have to look at it.

But yeah, I'd be curious to see if it's like you said, like there's no velocity going in there too. That almost kind of makes sense. Well, would that be just like if it got like ported or something or?

Yeah, like I said, there's a lot of questions.

Yeah, questions that he has on the top looks just like any other one I've seen on.

Yeah, you don't change those. Like there's people making like 900 horse on those and they're just fine. OK, you know, like I say, it's all how you put the cart together. For example, the Miata RX8, there's actually a turbo kit out there, which you have to buy pieces to put it all together. Like they'll sell you the manifold and then you have to buy the turbo and they'll come with the downpipe. And like that's the only way to get that, but that will full spool by like 3,200 RPMs and it can make 400 horse. Well, which is crazy.

Yeah.

Like that's pretty, but like I said, who's racing at that RPM? Like who's bringing their car down that low? It's like you have to have a mentality that this is technically like a four cylinder. Like you can't go down that low. Like Miata guys are like, oh man, my car is so low. I'm like, are you downshifting? They're like, no. I'm like, well, you can't just drive it like a V8. Like there's no torque.

Yeah. You know what I mean?

So you want to keep it in that 4,000 and upper.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And that's kind of like a common thing for a lot of small displacement cars.

Okay.

Or engines, I should say. And yeah, most of the ones that make really high horsepower on the top end don't really make good power on the bottom. Right. Just like any other V8 car, you know. Obviously it's different numbers.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cause there's torque. Yeah.

So are most like rotary builds typically single, like a big single sort of deal or?

I have a customer with the twin aftermarket turbo set up. And it's a twin turbo GT28 set up. So each rotor has a GT20 attached to it.

Oh, okay. That's really cool.

Yeah. It sounds amazing. Like that car is so much fun to drive. And he's not making crazy power either. He's like a pump 91 with old school power FCECU, which is like that little hand held, I call it the Gameboy.

Yeah, that's what Jake's got something like that in his car.

And I'm like, dude, get rid of this. So he finally, he's finally getting a FuelTech FD550 on there. So we're doing that later this year, but it's so much fun. He probably makes like 320 wheel, super low. Like he's had the car for like 10 plus years. And he's like, yeah, he drives it and there's no issues.

Are you tuning rotaries then too, or just Miata stuff?

I have, I have before. I'm not like, hey, I'm a rotary tuner, because I'm gonna say I'm not. Like I'm not just specific to that, but I have like the foundation of like understanding of how a rotary works and what it needs for timing and stuff like that.

Okay.

And plus I have some friends down in Florida who are supportive of like sharing like, hey, I can see that you're doing this. You should probably not do that.

You know what I mean?

And they'll explain it, you know, or just give me hints, you know, which is nice.

You know enough to be dangerous.

Yeah.

But like nothing, anything that's like a crazy build, but like, you know, something that's three, 400 horsepower, your morning cable of.

I'm willing to build a little drag, you know, obviously it doesn't scare me.

Okay.

So or anything that's rotary powered. Yeah.

So what you're saying is we should put Jay on a FuelTech and send him your way then.

I didn't say that. But if you want to, like, people, I always tell people, I'm like, don't go to a shop that people tell you, go to a shop that you feel comfortable and have the same energy as the people that are in there.

Well, that's one of the reasons I really like this podcast, because like, for example, I did a podcast, I want to say, I think it was in mid-30 episodes or whatever, and like, people heard the episode, and the guy got three calls on Monday, and it's like, oh, I want you to do my 1JZ, you know, it's like, because the guy specializes in 1JZ, so like, two hours, like, which is what we're going to be coming up here soon, it's like, people get to know you right before, you know, you even talk to them. So that's like one of the reasons I really enjoy doing this, because people, you know, it's like, oh, I like that guy, I'm going to call him. So that's what I'm saying, it's like, if we, we're going to force Jay to listen to this, he's got some things to learn. Cause now he's going to buy a Miata. No, like this guy's impulsive enough, he'll do it. I think, like Dan said last episode, he's like, oh, can you guys get those things in like a little three pack, you know? But no, like, so like a more modern ECU would probably help that car though. Yeah, more modern ECU, more modern turbos.

Yeah, I wouldn't even open up the engine to be honest. I'll just do a compression test, maybe stick a scope in there and just kind of look at the health of it. And that'll be it. I try not to, you know, a lot of shops will be like, oh, yeah, let's get you on this bill and stuff. I'm like, no, man, like, I just want you to drive the thing.

Like, it ain't broke, don't fix it kind of type situation.

Yeah, like, I don't want you at my shop all the time. Like, I'm just gonna be honest, you know, I want you to be enjoying out there and be like, yeah, Antonio at 87 put this together without going crazy on it. And it worked. Like, yeah, that's kind of like my thought of training.

Well, it's like, there's no better advertising than a good product, right? It's like, if your guy only comes back, like once a year for like basic maintenance, but he's out there actually racing the car, people are gonna go, well, who did your car? That's so much better as a referral than, you know, them coming back to keep building it more and more and more.

Right, right. And that's how my shop has been advertised, to be honest. I'm like, yeah, if you guys want to leave a Facebook comment, be like, yeah, good job. You did a great job or something, or just talk to your friends and be like, yeah, he did it. Like I picked up so many builds that way. Like a friend just referred his other buddy and his buddy told somebody else. And then I got this crazy build coming. I'm like, all right, cool.

Yeah, that's so cool, dude. Like when you see people that are out like three, four months, like for example, we had Janderson on, I think he was out like six or eight months or whatever for heads.

That's not un-normal by the way across shops.

Not for a good shop.

Yeah, so. Normally months out at a time, yeah.

Like if it's too quick, you're like, hmm.

Yeah, right, yeah. Oh, you can't get me in tomorrow? Wait a second.

Wait a minute.

Noted.

No, but no, there's a lot of great shops, including Janderson, by the way. I end up actually reaching out to him after I watch the episode.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

That's funny.

So I'm working on it.

See what I'm saying? Those people will listen and be like, oh, I like that guy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's pretty knowledgeable, too. He he's like very understanding of what my needs are. Like I'm very picky on stuff, by the way. So like for me to find a local machine shop, I was like, I've been fighting for like a year or two. So I've been sending all my stuff out, like out of state, because I'm like, I don't trust anybody. I'll just send it out to the people I actually trust.

And that's all he does, by the way, is just heads. Yeah.

That's perfect, because now he's like really good at it.

What was it? Was it Mini Cooper's? That's his big thing? Yeah. He's like, yeah, some of these guys, like they really want to just keep porting. And it's like, well, hold on. Like we go back to our earlier discussion about velocity and all that stuff. It's like, how does it flow and all that?

Just keep it simple.

Dude.

Let's keep it simple.

What's a crazy thing is like me, I tagged Dan in a video the other day, or not video, a post. Joker's down in Chicago. Like he does a lot of like Lotus stuff now, but like basically just porting, what was it? Superchargers?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

And it's like, he always shares like shoddy work of like, he's like, oh, I've got to fix this f****** thing now. So knowing who's porting your various things is very important apparently.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Bigger isn't always better.

Yeah, exactly. And you get into the Miata stuff. And again, people just lose control when you start talking turbo stuff and like big power and they're like, oh, we got to hog out this thing. It's like, no, this thing just needs like a light work and that's it. That's the best is going to flow. There's no other way. This has been out there for decades. There's nothing that you're doing that's going to change this thing, unless a new technology comes out. It's new to the market, but yeah, you don't have to overdo stuff.

No, I think the analogy I used on the Janderson episode was hotdogged on a hallway. Yeah, sometimes bigger isn't always better.

Yeah.

God damn it.

Every 40 episode.

Yeah, we should get him back on. Yeah, that was a fun one. I feel like I'm more like I've learned so much more since then I'm like this would probably be a more efficient episode. But no, it just seems like you care a lot about like the overall ecosystem of what you're building.

Yeah.

Rather than just like I would like some guys just like to throw like some guys can build a fast LS, right? We can get 2000 horsepower out of that thing, but we can't put it down anywhere.

Yep.

We can't make it live.

Yep.

Whereas, you know, it seems like that's kind of your goals. Like let's have it live.

And I've seen that all, man. I've seen that a lesbianist. Yeah, I like once you get to this level, you just kind of like to take a step back and be like, what do you really want to be passionate about? And like, what's your goal? Yeah. You know, so I mean, fast cars are fun, but it's almost like, it's almost a reminder that like you start it somewhere. Maybe you should go back there and try it again and see how much happier you are. Then, like, I have, so I have some weird cars. Okay, I have, I used to have a bunch of Mercedes collection. I used to have a bunch of V12 stuff. And then I've always been a Mazda guy, because that's kind of where I started. Actually, I started on a twin turbo stealth, but let's not talk about that car. That car was coming right here.

Those didn't catch my eye lately, too.

Dude, same here. I know how much of a pain in the a** they are to work on. But I'm like, there's just such a good looking car, and they drive so well. It's kind of hard to explain it to people, unless they haven't driven one yet.

Stealth, what's the other platform?

3,000 GT.

That's OK.

Yeah. I had the stealthy, because I couldn't afford the 3,000 GT yet, 17 years old. But it was a twin-turbo one, and it was fun. So I've had that, and then my first car where I actually did all the work myself was an MX3. It was an ITB, so my first build. And then after that, I did a stock turbo, 323 GTX from Japan, very small turbo. I mean, I think it's tiny and kind of semi-built the motor, but like using stock factory parts that are stronger. It was like my budget build, but the thing was fast. I mean, I met some great people that way, like with that car, because it made 260 wheel on E85 back then. This is 2009, 2010, somewhere on there. And I mean, I was like beating, there's this funny story where I raced a stage three STI, because he was like, man, that thing is fast. I'm like, all right, cool, yeah, let's race. And I just ended up like beating him with this little like stock turbo, like MX3, which is like the weirdest car. Do you even know what?

I'm not sure. It's like the hatch thing, right?

Yup, yup. So ever since then, I'm like, I always had a soft spot for those cars.

MX3, like that's like the speed threes, right? No, I'm thinking about something else.

They're like nineties, like nobody wanted them, let's be honest. They're like the weird niche. Like if you had one most, they were very popular in like Europe and Canada, and South America, actually. But in the US., it wasn't the greatest hit. They had like a four cylinder option and they had a V6 option, which the V6 was a 1.8 liter V6. Holy crap. Smallest production V6 out there, which is funny. But yeah, recently, about five years ago, I acquired another one after I sold all my projects. And I said, I wasn't going to do this anymore. I picked one up and I was like, oh, okay, this is it. It was a Texas car, super clean. I was like, all right, why I'm going to build this? Well, it's been five years now, but it's all wheel drive using a Toyota Celica drivetrain. It's actually had that Celica WRC. If you know those generations, it's like a ST205. And it has a Miata 1.8 engine in it. It's a BP4W99 with aluminum rods, billet mains, all the really high horsepower stuff. So, goal was a thousand horsepower, but maybe I'll just bring it down. Cause like, I'm like, do I really need it? No, I don't want the mains, man. I might even like sell the aluminum rods. I might just go back to steel rods and keep it at a lower number where I'm like, I can just get in this thing, turn the AC on and just drive it. And then, you know, if I want to take it to the track, I can and be pretty quick, you know.

So you're kind of going over that hump. Yeah, I think everybody goes through that in life. It's like, all right, let's stop.

I don't want to work on the car. I don't have time to work on, like, my own stuff. Most of the time, it's getting like that's every shop owner ever. Yeah. Like everybody else gets their car done. I'm like, where's your car? I'm like, yeah, still not done.

Yeah. Like when we had the ratified after hours, episode, episode 91, it's like rats. Like we literally had his dusty RS3 in the background. It's like, yeah, man, I just gave out a bunch of parts from this car for customer cars. So maybe I'll probably start finishing it. And now I think after that episode, I got like he pulled an all nighter.

I'm like, oh, OK, some motivation.

I had to look it up real quick. This makes three. That says, I don't know if I've ever seen one of these in the wild.

That is so I actually have three right now. And two of them are Mazda Speed. Like it's they're just so rare nowadays.

They're all kind of cool looking, though.

Yeah.

Would you say they come with a motor?

There's two options, a four cylinder. It's a one six like Miata one six.

And then a one eight.

You're talking in the one eight V six. Yeah. Which my V six one has a swap, has a two point five liter. So which is for pro motor. Technically, yeah, it's the same Cal. Yeah. K serious motor before the K series.

Are they pretty decent? The two five. I'm actually looking at a 90 right now. That's got a two five turbo. Oh, probe GT.

OK. Again, like what's done to it and like that.

I believe it's all stock.

Oh, yeah, that's like on the limit. But again, it all comes down to if it has a standalone ECU that you can control things a lot nicer so they can like make these empower. And yeah, the only reason that platform didn't really take off is because of the transmissions. Transmission just blew up left and right.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, you make a third gear pull on the turbo one, and like 90% of the time, you will blow it up. Like you will just strip third or fourth, one of those two. So that's not just one. Yeah, and like, you know, people just like, just kept replacing transmissions and they're just like, ah, just get rid of this thing.

Yeah.

Get something else that's newer, you know, more efficient.

Do you do a lot of transmission stuff too?

Yeah.

Okay. I know some guys like to avoid it.

I kind of have to, because most of the stuff that I'm working with, they all have inferior parts, you know, you can do, I mean, you can do tricks. I will call it tricks in order to like, prolong the life of it, but eventually we'll give up, you know, there'll be a point where it will lose its strength, unless you're maintaining like every year, taking it apart and checking it.

So what's the typical like upgrade for transmission stuff look like in like a Miata?

Man, like I said, there's a BMW transmission swap that you can do. I don't like it.

But there's not something you take from like the original or anything like that.

I mean, you can do a six-speed swap. It's a little bit stronger. I used to tell people to just take it apart. There's a, I think it's like third or fourth gear. It can come loose. It will move because it will flex. So if you put a C-clip on there or some sort of, or you can weld that gear so it doesn't move, they'll become a little bit stronger.

Man, there's always something a little, like a weird thing. Every single car, it's like, oh, you just do this like 20 cents or $3 part that you throw in there.

Which you know came across the table at the meeting, right, before it went out into production. And they're like, wait, just for another 30 cents per car. And they add up the number and they're like, no effing way, bro, send it.

Some sort of warranty work or something.

Yeah, right.

To keep the dealers in business or something.

I mean, I have a customer that makes like 420 foot pounds on a Miata on a stock six speed. And he drifts the car and uses it.

That's a lot of power for a Miata, dude.

Wait, hold on, you wanna hear the total number? So it's 420 foot pounds and 397 horsepower. So it actually makes more torque than horsepower. Well, I think it's violent. Like when the boost comes on, it's like, hold on, buddy, this thing is rowdy. And that one, yeah, that one's again, a simple build, just built bottom end stock head with eBay turbo and E85. So it wasn't my recipe, but it works for him. Yeah. Yeah. And it's still going around. Engine might be a little hurt from all those pulls. I mean, he really, I think on the dyno, it wasn't getting boost and his boost control kept backing out. So it was like a manual boost controller. And I was just like, got sick of tired of just doing like one turn and like not doing anything. And I, I gave it like four or six turns. I was like, ah, I guess safety parameters on the ACU. I go make a poll and it's that poll that made that power. And I looked down, the boost gauge just goes like past the numbers. I'm like, how much boost is it? I was like, I have no idea, man. It went past the numbers. I think it was like a gauge for 20 or 25 pounds, but it just went past that. Like I was like, I guess that's where it's staying. They lived.

So well, let's just drifters aren't really known for taking care of their things.

I know.

Yeah, no, they those cars get abused.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I actually built one. And then we I think we heard the stock, the engine that we just rebuilt because we literally took it down the road, made like a twenty seven pound break-in pulse like a couple of times. I'm like, it should be pretty good. And then he goes out there, first thing he does is like just bounces off the rev limiter. I'm like, I'm like in the car and I'm like having a heart attack. I'm like, are you going to shift? It was just like, I'm like, that's going to hurt the engine for sure. You know, you don't have things set properly. And so I'm like, let's just take it back. So I might be building him another engine like I'm paying for it. Like he wants to move on. I'm like, I'll take care of it because that's kind of my. I should have educated him a little bit better about that.

So don't send it right out the gate.

I mean, I've done it before and it works just fine. But we're using like used parts and this build was like put together in like a day or two. So, you know, things things things might have got forgotten on his end. And I try helping him and stuff. But, you know, you can only do so much when you're in a budget build. So, things happen.

Oh, absolutely.

And I'm okay saying that. Like, you know, you learn. Like, don't take a brand new motor out there and bounce out of a red light for drifting. Maybe not right away. Not right away. A little break in.

Yeah. Do you have any other questions coming to mind here before we?

No, I don't. This has been great, though. I know we've had a lot of Miata and questions and things. It's awesome. We've all been itching to learn about, so.

Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, I think it's time.

Yeah.

Because we started saying things on the J episode. I'm like, yeah, I think we're talking out of our a** here. We should probably get a little educated.

There's a lot of misinformation out there, too.

Anything come to mind that we didn't touch on?

Well, not really. I mean, I am starting to veer off on other platforms here. I'm probably hitting, going towards more of a drag racing-like shop, where I can set up from start to finish on a drag project. Mainly imports, I should say that. Yeah.

Imports, anything come to mind in particular?

Right now, actually, one of those MX3s is getting a MiVEC 38. Do you know what those things are? It's an Eclipse V6 motor, it's a 3.8 liter, ugly, people say it's ugly, Eclipse, a little bubbly one, last gen. But those motors, man, people are sleeping on, I'm telling you that right now.

Really?

Sleeping on them. Those things are actually really nice motors. As far as just making the power, I don't know about reliability, but it can make it.

Yeah.

As a drag car, it's pretty good. Like, again, I have a lot of Puerto Rican friends, and this is like the go-to motor for NA. They're running Nitro Meth for these stock engines. And making somewhere around 450 to 500 NA. Like, you basically pick it up in a junkyard, bring it home, lock the MiVec, or they call it MiVec killer, put a bigger throttle body, do an exhaust that's a little bit bigger, stock headers, stock everything, put a FuelTech on it, go run like low tens.

Really?

Or 11s, depending on which fuel you're using, you know. Which is impressive. And then they drive it home, some of them. And then some people are, you know, trailering them and stuff. But really impressive more. So I'm trying to bring that up here because I feel like Miatas is a little behind on drag racing. So.

That's a common theme we're hearing, by the way. Like when we talk to certain people, like, it's like, how do we build it up here?

Kerry's doing a great job.

He is doing, dude, this last event, the Speed Summit was, he brought in some big names.

I was supposed to go there, but my car got hurt and the transmission got hurt. Transmission. So.

Are you gonna try to make it the 2.0 one? Yes. I think I'm gonna enter the car in for that one.

Yep, I will be. Okay. And again, a lot of people are like, oh, well, my car's not fast. You don't have to bring a fast car. You can bring a 15 second car. As long as you're consistent, you're in that bracket racing now.

Yeah.

You know, so like.

It's not, your car can do all those things, but if your car excels in one thing or the other, they take all of it together and add it together. So it's not like, if you suck at drag racing, but you kill it in an autocross. Yeah.

Oh, you're talking about doing like a triple track.

Oh yeah. I was going to do the triple track. Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, why not?

But the drag racing just by itself was, it was worth watching.

Yeah. Yeah. And it motivates you. Like every time you go there, you're like, oh man, there's actually really cool people here that are actually pretty knowledgeable. I mean, the guys from Colorado were here.

Yeah. PFI Speed, I think. Was it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there's another group from Chicago, too. I forgot what they were called, but there was people from all over. I came for that.

Yeah. It was a great event. I'm kind of mad I missed it.

But what does it take to grow? Or what do you think it's going to take to grow the drag racing scene a little bit more here?

I think more support. I feel like everything's kind of gated, like they're not like willing to share. I mean, drag racing has always been like that. Like, but more like helping each other in a way of like, hey, man, like, don't beat yourself if you can't put a turbo kit on your car. Like, just go out there and have fun. You know what I mean? Like, don't wait until your car is fully built. Like, work your way up there.

Make it a process, like a journey rather than a destination.

Exactly. And it's all about the experience. Like, all these drag races don't do it because they're like, oh, I love taking up my engine apart every other pass to retorque head studs. Like, that doesn't sound fun. But to have your friends there and to have your family or people that support you and just a journey like you took a trailer out there or whatever, you drove the car out there and drove it back. Like, just things that you can say down the road, be like, I did it. You know what I mean? And like, I did it with these people.

Well, you don't have to worry about getting spanked by a nine second car either. I saw plenty of 12, 14 second cars out there. Go out there running, like you said, and they're not going to put you with those cars necessarily. They try and keep everybody in a class, keep it together.

I feel like a lot of people now, they just want to win. It's like, dude, that's not the point. You can go out there with whatever you have and make something out of it. All the fast guys that have gotten fast, they didn't start with a fast car. They all started with really slow cars. So we can win and work our way up there.

Well, it's like all the Honda guys that we had on. It's like at some point, those things were making 200 horse, then four, then five, and then we're at a thousand.

They started with a thousand car stock. Yeah.

Yeah.

So every start somewhere.

Yeah.

That's going to be a fun event. I'm excited that that that was my first time like experiencing proving grounds for a whole weekend. Right. Which is basically what it is. Just reimagined. I think Charlie is doing a pretty good job.

Absolutely.

I think this next one's going to be kick a**.

I think from the stories that I heard about proving grounds and then having been to the speed summit, I didn't see any of that non-sensory that they were talking about. It was very classy. It was a good time.

I mean, it's fun to get rowdy once in a while.

Don't get me wrong. We were definitely rowdier compared to...

We were adult rowdy, though. It wasn't like...

Whatever you want to say. We drove up to Piero's tent and f****** honked at 11 a.m. And we got yelled at. Yeah, we got yelled at.

It's not like we were misbehaving and we got scolded.

That's fair. Just hearing us... I can't say... I hate having to say I can't say this on camera, but some of the stuff that Jay was saying was f****** absurd. Yes. It was the three of us in the go-kart and it was the funniest thing ever, just driving around a track. So, yeah, it would be awesome to see you up there. Then what are you planning to bring?

That MX3, the red one, the V6 one.

Oh, sweet.

So, yeah, it's on nitrous.

Oh, nice. Check it out.

So, again, I'm not looking for a fast number. I just have a goal.

There's always somebody faster too.

I'm like, I have a goal. If I can hit that, I'll be happy. Yeah. Which is, it's not the fastest thing.

Putting a helmet on and driving your car down a track is already a bonus win anyway, right? It just gives you this whole other feeling. You get a little adrenal rush from it.

Yeah, and to be honest, my first time on a CoroMile track was last year.

Yeah. Oh, really?

Yeah.

Last year, I took my V12 Mercedes out there.

And which one was that again?

To SL600 in 1998. Got you. Automatic V12, just stock with Cadillac exhaust, technically. And I'm like, car and driver said that I ran a 14.2 best. And I was like, I want to run 13.9. That was my goal. I did. I went up there and got better and better at my reaction time. I'm not going to sell that car. It's weird, I don't think I have any customers that just go through cars. I mean, I do, maybe for daily stuff, but their project cards are, they're like, oh no, I've had this for a long time. I'm like, cool. I can kind of see eye to eye with them. So, just nice.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Did you want to pop the usual three? We just crossed two.

Yeah, I saw that. We're at two hours. We probably should. All right, so at the end of every episode, we like to ask our guests to pick three cars. You got to pick a track car, a daily driver and a show car. You have an unlimited budget. Build whatever you want, swap whatever you want. What are you picking?

I'll go with the easiest one, which will be or the track car.

Track car, show car, daily driver.

Daily driver will be like a newer S63 AMG. I'm an old man now, man. I need my massage and seats with heated and cooled, you know. Those things drive so nice. They're and they look great. So I think it will be one of those, which that's actually like a goal I want to get. Yeah, I sold all my Mercedes. So now I'm like, I don't have any Mercedes left. I'm like, I need another one.

Those come as a wagon, too, don't they?

The E-Class does.

The E-Class does.

Yeah.

The S doesn't. That's the sedan.

Yeah, the S-Class is like the big body, like the biggest one that they sell, which they also come in V12 or V8 or a hybrid. I think they even have a hybrid one.

They still have a V12 one?

I'm not sure. I think they cut the line for that.

I think so.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, they're just doing the V8 stuff, if that. Yeah.

So, dude, those are amazing. I got to drive around an E63. I think it was like an 18 or whatever. Dude, it's so plush.

Yeah.

Like, if I had to go in order, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, like, if we're talking about German cars being, like, comfy, dude, Mercedes knocks out of the park, I think.

Yeah. And the quality is there. I mean, I always tell people, I'm like, shut the door in that car and compare it to another one. That's not the same. Like, the ride quality is so nice, too. They definitely got it down. A lot of people are like, you know, the new tech stuff is too much for them. But I'm like, I think it's nice. For a track car, are you saying like road course?

Whatever you choose.

Man, that's a hard one.

Yeah, choose your application.

Because it's between that or the show car. Like, they're both show cars or track cars.

They could be dual purpose, technically.

Well, definitely a Zonda R, for sure. For a show car? Track car. Let's put a track car, because it's technically not a real legal car. And then for show, I'll have to be kind of a little old school. It will be a Gallardo Superleggero twin turbo.

Nice. There's one for sale locally.

Gated.

Yeah.

The gray one?

Yeah, the gray one.

I worked on that car.

Oh, did you? There's only like one of two in existence in that color for a Superleggero or whatever, I think.

Is that the one that's up at Brainerd?

It might be up at Brainerd right now. Well, it's AJ that has it right now.

AJ's garage.

So I don't know if he still has it. I was supposed to do a video on it. I should probably text him about that. But yeah.

Yeah. Most likely is that one. That was it. It was an Enth motor build.

Wasn't it?

Yeah. If it's the same car I'm thinking of.

Let's take a look at it again. But nonetheless, super cool, dude. The Superleggeros are awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like once you step inside of one, you understand like this is so nice. It's like the Carban and the Alcantara like I mean, I don't know about you fitting in that car very well. It's kind of like a little bit before short Italians.

Yeah, it's a tough one like Ryan Wheeler. He had carbon buckets in his Gallardo.

That makes a huge difference, by the way.

I still struggle to get out of it.

Yep.

It was you hear. I rolled out of it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I had to roll out. So I think it was four years ago. I think this is like just before the pandemic started. I was doing car reviews as Borat.

Oh, nice.

And there's a handful of videos that went viral. And then I stopped doing it because winter came and nobody I was really able to get access to cars. But like there's like videos of me rolling out of the Gallardo, a Huracan, like just I got to find those videos.

Man, they're so good. It's like a process of stepping in and out of those cars.

Yeah.

Like if you want to do it right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. And since like I, you know, given for the video, I didn't care about looking like an idiot. But imagine I pulled up to like a car show or it's like, I have to roll out on my back. Like there's a video of a guy in a Ford GT rolling out. Yeah. What is it about the Pecani that you want for a track car? Why do you? Why that one?

Man, it's just a raw car. Again, it's just I mean, even though it is pedal shifted, it's still a Mercedes-Benz motor V12, which is the same, technically same platform as the SL that I had. And I don't know, I just like the rawness of it and just everything mechanical about it just makes sense to me.

Did you, what did you see when you went to the factory? Any particular Paganis?

Like everything. How long ago did you go? I want to say two years ago.

Two years ago?

Wow.

Okay. So you're probably seeing like the new Utopia and everything.

I saw that and then I saw that actually had all the race cars, the high wire RS there for service. So I got to see like everything that was like race car oriented. It was really cool.

And they don't let you take photos on that one, do they?

No, no. You take your phones. You put it in a locker.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. But just the whole process and it was so it's so cool, man. Like, think of like, it's like you walk in the shop. It doesn't feel like a shop. It's set up as a city like an Apple Store. No, because Apple Store feels very fake. Yeah, this is more like there's like a big grand like clock. And then there's like plants and stuff. And like, it just feels very relaxed. And just how everything is just properly.

That's so uniquely Italian.

Yeah, just properly sectioned. Like, you got your carbon builds, having your CNC machinery, engines, paint and body. Like, it was very well sanctioned without being a factory. I don't know how to, can you even say that?

It felt like something you want to go to work to probably.

Oh yeah, yeah. It feels more hand built.

Yes, the craft is there. It's not like the people are there are just like, yeah, we can just replace you. Like, no, no, like you're a big asset to the company. And I feel like that's the way Horacio Pagani put this thing together.

I bet they have an espresso shop in there. They have to have.

And this is people drinking coffee. So, I mean, it's Italy. You take your afternoon break, which is like two hours. Everything is shut down. And then you just go home and spend time with your family and come back to work.

Because I know, I think it's Mexico, right? They have siesta. Or am I thinking of something else? No, I think it was Spain. So it's kind of something like that, like where you have a dedicated hour, like a nap or something.

Yeah, yeah. It was definitely different for me because I'm like wide awake. I'm like, I need some coffee. I'm like, wait, everything's closed.

Yeah, it's a different culture over there. Like, you know, when my dad and my brother went over to Europe, you know, last year, you know, to go, you know, back to Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's just different. Like, it's not like go, go, go, go, go. Like it is here in the States, you know?

Yeah. A lot of family time.

Yeah.

Like that's like that's a priority, which which is nice. It gives you a good foundation for your future. You know, so.

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. Any final things we should touch on for? I think we kind of covered a lot of things.

Yeah, we did.

This is super fun.

Hopefully, it helped on one of your questions.

Someone's got a question to answer. Where can people find you? Do you is it all referral base or do you have somewhere where people could reach out or anything like that?

Social media, so Facebook and Instagram. And that's it.

Is it 87?

Yeah, so it's 87. I'll see what the eight and the seven be in the first letters. It's kind of confusing. I chose that and I was like, man, that's going to be confusing. I'm like, nah, just go with it.

It looks good when you look at it, but trying to explain to somebody probably would be difficult.

Yeah, but I'll just leave it and be like, people will figure it out.

And then Dan?

You can find us at Gunner Garage with two N's.

Nailed it. All right, and then if you guys are this far into the episode, you kind of know where you're at at this point. Well, Antonio, thank you very much for coming on.

Thank you guys.

Dan, thanks for existing and we'll see you all next time.